𝗛𝗘𝗟𝗣 𝗠𝗘 𝗖𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗧𝗘 𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗘 𝗙𝗢𝗥 𝗬𝗢𝗨. 𝗦𝗨𝗣𝗣𝗢𝗥𝗧 𝗢𝗡 𝗣𝗔𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗢𝗡: https://www.patreon.com/quazii
Naoki Yoshida talks about his plans to change up combat in FF14 – both job and raids.
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𝗦𝗢𝗨𝗥𝗖𝗘𝗦 𝗨𝗦𝗘𝗗 𝗜𝗡 𝗩𝗜𝗗𝗘𝗢
https://multiplayer.it/articoli/final-fantasy-14-dawntrail-naoki-yoshida-ci-parla-di-narrazione-di-design-e-del-bilanciamento.html
https://hardcoregamer.com/yoshi-p-talks-raid-woes-field-operation-in-final-fantasy-xiv-dawntrail/
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𝐓𝐀𝐋𝐊 𝐓𝐎 𝐌𝐄 𝐎𝐍 𝐒𝐎𝐂𝐈𝐀𝐋𝐒
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source
Sources to both Yoshi-P Interviews:
https://multiplayer.it/articoli/final-fantasy-14-dawntrail-naoki-yoshida-ci-parla-di-narrazione-di-design-e-del-bilanciamento.html
https://hardcoregamer.com/yoshi-p-talks-raid-woes-field-operation-in-final-fantasy-xiv-dawntrail/
If no big job changes until 8.0, then some people will have rolled with basically the same rotation for 6+ years. I feel like they just don't have an answer yet so they're playing for time. This "people will get confused" thing doesn't sound real to me. People aren't toddlers, if the game becomes fresher and less stale both in battle content and job diversity at the same time, they'll probably learn to deal with that terrible fate.
The jobs, IMHO, I pretty stale, but do to the skill graphical artist ism up to par, compare to how amateur modders are able to put out.
DT has , based on the trailer, expanded the aesthetic; so that's a plus.
I'd be happy if they got rid of the positionals all together
Yeah…. sorry. I am not a hardcore raider, though I have done savage raids in the past.
The jobs suck right now. I think it is ludicrous to suggest that it is only a "vocal minority" that is complaining about jobs, since the many people I interact with feel the same.
Casuals tend to main their one or two classes. So they do not care.
But making every class "accessible" in terms of skill level has ruined the game. Listen, maybe it hurts someone's fee fees, BUT NOT EVERY CLASS IS FOR YOU. Some may be too hard, or skill ceiling too high, and you need time and skill to master them.
AND THAT IS OK.
That would be one step in making the game much, much better.
Tanks and Healers need a complete overhaul. Stop listening to people who bitch and moan about "their" tank not being at the top of dps charts. Further separate the "main tank" and "off tank" roles. "Shield healers" and "regen" healers. Stop giving every class everything. My hotbars are almost identical for all tanks and healers, and the difference is basically cosmetic at this point.
You already have a game that has plenty of things to play for casual players. Make more hard content and classes.
Don't forget everyone. The dev team can't hear your thoughts. Speaking up in official forums with legitimate issues is the best way to tell them as a collective, "we have something to say."
I can sympathize that it must be so hard to balance all these fights with 20+ jobs. Seems better to balance fights around the ROLES and make sure each job in a given role has the same potential for damage and utility if played well. Field operations are a better venue for exploring the strengths of each individual job imo.
the old players are bored, but there are new players coming in from the 60% sale.
bring back 1 minute mug please.
Ffxiv developers should focus on doing a complete reboot of their PvP system.
Yoshi hates all healing jobs. Otherwise warrior wouldnt be the way it is
The way current job design is being handled is the single biggest mark against FFXIV for me at the moment, that isn't how little Housing we have. I need my jobs to actually stimulate my brain. If a dungeon is going well as a tank or healer I am just hitting the same few buttons over and over with no variation, with no depth, no randomness and no real management. Even when doing normal raids or trials, there's so little to actually make the fight give me any enjoyment. Once I know how a fight works, it's just execution, and therefore it's once again back to spamming my filler spell or 1/2/3. I don't know what form it should take, as I'm not a game designer or a dev with knowledge or experience of game balance, but there's a reason even with all of it's flaws I still play WoW. It's combat is just superior in terms of actually stimulating gameplay with skill expression, variation, and variety between it's classes and specializations. Making the game easier and more accessible for casual players should and HAS come in making the content attached to the MSQ easier like story dungeons and trials. They went overboard with what they've done with Jobs.
As a healer, I never get bored unless playing with a warrior…
Mechanics are fine but there is just a lot of job bloat. I'd rather fewer distinct actions and more complex boss mechanics – but that also requires being more liberal with thier "packages."
It's like this: would you rather do American Ninja Warrior, or run 100 meters with a broken shoe? Not all complexity is made equal, and the 2 minute burst window got rid of a lot of broken shoes.
Maybe I'm just anti-social, but I love that the 2 minute window let's us align our buffs in a simple way that usually doesn't require any discussion. Frankensteining together an optimal burst phase to me seems pointless, exactly like standing in an aoe to parse, because it regularly sacrifices the group progress in some way for the sake of a personal high. It's selfish, I mean who actually wants teamwork to be difficult? A selfish person, that's who.
Mechanics are open ended, but when it comes to DPS, having to focus constantly on what everyone is doing and what the party comp is feels like such a waste of brain power. They could actually make the raid itself more interesting rather than min max burst windows. I'm sorry, but even if it feels good in the moment to do it well, I would rather have a more difficult fight. In theory, anyway, DawnTrail will provide that as compared to Endwalker.
In summary, synchronized burst phase becomes less mental overhead become more difficult mechanics in fights. It's just a slow process we are in the middle of. I believe they're get there.
I just love Yoshi-P. He's here to hear all concerns, and I'm just so grateful that he's willing to try and make improvements. We'll see where it goes.
I prefer skill expression in class design, but I won't get turned off is a class is too hard or too easy. I'm a fighting game player. If something looks cool and makes me feel cool, I play it. However, the problem I have with FFXIV is that everything makes me feel the same. There's no power fantasy being fulfilled in this game with the exception of Monk, Ninja, Black Mage and Machinist (in this current expansion).
Machinist is a very easy class, however I think it fulfills the power fantasy and class identity very well. I mention this to give an example that identity =/= complexity.
I'm afraid Monk will be losing its power fantasy while they attempt to keep the identity and Black Mage is doing the opposite in DT. Ninja is removing the not fun stuff and leaning more into the identity and the fantasy of the job and Machinist is mostly staying on path. I'm hoping Bard is one that joins the well-designed class list this expansion as the changes look positive.
I also feel like there was a missed opportunity with Viper to make its identity be about stance dancing and make you want to manually go in and out of 2 swords, but it just appears to be do damage until you change forms and then do more damage. Which is what Reaper does, but faster.
I'm not saying bring back stance dances to everything, but there's no reason why SE couldn't have made Viper fulfill that missing power fantasy and class identity.
On the other hand, Pictomancer appears to be very inspired with its identity and power fantasy. It's not a class that I'll play a lot, but it actually has me interested in playing it and experiencing the fantasy and identity of the class.
The only reason I have a sub right now, and have for the past six months, is for my houses on different servers. I log in on Saturday, run around inside, and log off on my two characters. That's the only reason I have a sub, and I wonder if that is the same for others. If so, then those sub numbers are artificially inflated.
I hope Dawntrail improves a lot of things, but right now I'm just extremely meh with FFXIV and most MMO's on the market right now.
My personal take on mechanics and classes boils down to them updating the game's engine. There is many mechanics that are fun in paper but a nightmare in execution due to the current "snapshotting" system. For example the orbs in E6S, damn dog still haunts me with how damn rng it always felt even when we were reclearing for weeks and knew the mechanic perfectly.
As for classes, I am down for less buttons with more power behind them, this is something WoW did right in some of it's expansions, like as a rogue I could use cloak of shadows to negate or speed up some mechanics giving my group a slight advantage.
I don't care about more lenient enrage timers, they don't really matter after week one and only really affect low – mid skill casual players. At least on Savage and Extreme, Ultimates should stay as they are.
Finally I wish they reworked sub stats. Tenacity being worthless and forced upon you in the final relic stage for tanks is just a huge ugh. And personally with so many jobs getting huge potency skills I don't want rng-sus deciding if we did a lot of damage or A LOT!! of damage.
I understand the sentiment of yoshi when he says, “you can’t steer too far left or right when trying to implement fixes” but I gotta say the fact that yoshi P, of all people, thought that homogenization was going to end up well when the game was literally designed around WoW during Mists of Panderia is a wild statement and contradictory to boot.
That expansion in WoW was the most homogenized in terms of class design that players had ever seen.
How he can say that they took inspiration from MoP but down the line decided homogenization was the right move makes me wary about his decision making going forward.
I’ll believe it when I see it. We are now on the third irritation of ShB job design.
So I won’t be playing dawntrail. Got it.
Boss fight design has gotta be a nightmare for them. Like I miss old trials designs to a point. Nothing says hype like how Shiva entered phase 2 where everyone is frozen and the music shifts after she steps on the ice and snaps her fingers, but at the same time…. man that down time and completely ruining your rotation really really really sucks lmao.
Yoshi should look how street fighter 6 tackles the situation where modern players play different than classic. A perfect example how it can appease both player types and both are used at a high ceiling use such as tournaments so not one is better than the other. (Even if we know classic is better)
The problem with FFXIV job design is that they do feel unique while you're leveling up. At some point, after X expansions, your jobs gets given passives that "ease up" your need to deal with the job's mechanics. A couple more stacks for that job mechanic, a longer timer for that buff, etc… So in the end, you have so many things that help you not have to deal with your job mechanics, that it's possible to create a rock solid rotation where you don't even feel like you have a job mechanic. You just do the buttons in order and repeat, like every other job. If you follow the order, you don't need to track anything and everything will line up perfectly. With exceptions, of course.
Positional just suck.
Summoner needs the most work. It's my favourite job and theme wise it's the best fitting job with the most lore and is the oldest job in FFXIV. It's just so utterly boring there's no reason to play it if you are after having fun.
I just want the difficulty from Heavensward and Stormblood back for both jobs and normal raids.
No their job concerns don’t matter since they’re the minority
I just don’t believe him. He’s been kicking this can since 5.0. The exact same complaints I had back then are the same complaints I have now almost 5 years later. They don’t care. If they did they wouldn’t be waiting until 8.0. The job design team is totally different from the battle content team.
They can listen all day but they won’t make any changes. FFXIV is the kind of game that refuses to grow and innovate. There’s zero chance they’ll change anything.
The fact he thinks Eureka is the first field operation when really it was Diadem that was a complete mess is wild. He and his team have been doing the same thing over and over and can’t get off the rails at this point. Sad.
It’s WoW all over again where I feel like as a long term player of 9-10 years I helped “set up” the game by supporting it for years and now it has been changed and neutered to appease new and bad players and now it’s not for me anymore. It sucks. The new players should need to adapt to the game and long time players, not the other way around.
Agreed on the job identity being important.
idk majority of jobs are pretty much the same. i think only like astro got major changes. outside of melee gap closers not doing damage anymore, the rest of jobs pretty much are more of the same.
Amazing creator, saving me so much time!
Positional are not fun they are annoying lol aiming your character to make sure all the hits from your aoe/cone/line attacks are fun but rear/side single target isn't
I wonder how many people are willing to wait 3 years for 8.0 though. Healers are already putting up a big stink on the Lodestone forums over the absurd tank sustain powercreep ruining normal content for them. (I don't blame them tbh if I was a healer main I would give my money to Blizzard instead.)
Yeah I'm one of those that love positionals. I'm constantly moving around the boss or battlefield even when I don't have a need to because it just makes the game more enjoyable for me, so positionals give me a direct reason to do that + rewards me for it. My favorite classes uses positionals, so when I heard Monk was getting theirs lessened, I was actually sad about it. Then Dragoon, my main, is now losing some of theirs. I get why it's happening, and yeah that means easier upkeep of optimum dps I guess, but I was hoping they'd just keep it so that the reward for doing the positional is just slightly higher dps instead of removing them entirely. That meant those who didn't do them still were capable in their team, but those who did were, again, rewarded for keeping the rhythm going.
Another thing was knowing when to use True North. Figuring out the best moment to do so against a boss that likes to wiggle around felt great. Now, I don't think it'll be needed as much which disappoints me, but it is what it is.
Very nicely done Quazii! Your points are well taken. A large MMO must appeal to a diverse player base. Think of it as a great banquet. Some like it spicy, some do not. There are dishes at the banquet to satisfy each. On job design there are several ways to approach this. The first is to have different jobs for different tastes. That solves the core problem, but results in large differences in how often different jobs are played. Look at job frequency in raid statistics. This also leads to some players feeling excluded because their favorite job isn’t optimal for certain content. This leads to calls for jobs to be “fixed”, even though some players love them as they are. The other considerations use two principles, “easy to learn, hard to master” and “jobs change in some content”. PVP is an example of the latter. I'm wondering if the second principle might be applied to some raid content. Combining all of this is the elegant answer, but a huge challenge for developers. Master craftsmanship when it is achieved. I love this game and appreciate the sincere and thoughtful efforts of the developers.
Copium Copium Copium Copium Copium
however this year the mmo division is also doing poorly.. (like all square) you trust a little too much in marketing the yoship job…. my team doesn't want to stress the players…. donkeys also fly
So they destroyed everything that made jobs unique and now they say they want to fix it! I have 0 faith
Dumbed down? Never had a worse time trying to figure out / let alone optimize a rotation for a job / game. And sorry no I shouldnt have to got to a 3rd party website.