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Oi first
I think two Ultimates per expansion are good. I just think, for some reason, in Endwalker they've had more trouble balancing the difficulty than in the previous two expansions… it's just a question of finding that sweet spot where there's enough frustration to make completion fulfilling, but not so much that it burns people out. Since content's been "too difficult" three times in a row now (DRS, P8, Omega) I think they'll prefer to err on the side of caution and make P12 easier than they normally would.
Just spellblade thundaga and use rapid strike a few times and gg
i think it's too hard if they keep giving us the hardest fights ever conceived in an mmo patch after patch at least they should make the dps checks more lenient so we can actually beat it before the next one
I don't think priority/swap system is healthy, too difficult for PF (I know crazy to prog on PF but MANY do it). Yes p8s had snake but TOP demands it on many phases. All this will do is sway people to cheating, all this priority is relegated to AM. So now AM will be the standard and acceptable. Eventually ZOOM hack will be the norm to deal with the encounter.
Two ultimates per expansion are perfectly fine. The only issue I am having is, these last two ultimates are SO long and hard, that I will not be able to clear them before their respective savage tiers release… forcing me to pick them up back later, after savage is done. This is bothering me a lot. I am one of those "midcore" raiders, I would say, raiding three days a week, for about 3-4 hours. Already knowing that this is not going to be enough to beat TOP before the next savage tier releases? It's kind of demotivating.
Since my savage and ultimate static are different ones, there is not even an option to push savage back.
After devs told us, TOP would not be as hard as DSR, we even decided to NOT return to DSR because of it, only to be confronted with a fight that is arguably even harder. It's discouraging. Also TOP has balancing issues. DPS checks are too tight again, like in P8S, favouring specific party compositions and jobs – specially since there is a phase where players get so many buffs, they cannot even burst-dps correctly because their job buffs just cannot activate anymore – again, favouring specific low-buff job compositions. This should never ever even be a factor for building parties.
While mechanically the fight is awesome and fun – DPS-check-wise it is terrible.
As someone who burned out on DSR to the point of hiatus on all of P5S-P8S and attempting TOP, the amount of time commitment needed to complete encounters on this level is borderline madness. Personally 19 minutes still seems too long, even if you suggest it doesn’t feel as lengthy.
Midcore players, buckle up for another 4+ months of progression. 🎉 At least this ultimate is on a superb level visually.
Still dont get why they dont do an ultimate on the x.5 patch you know the Ultimate patch of an expansion
Hated this ultimate, buggy and finicky mechanics where almost every phase had an unintended bug. The devs always do this, the community goes "Your game is too easy.". And do they make the base game a tad harder? No. They make the hardest content in the game even more so.
From an outside perspective (not at all a raider), it really feels like they've backed themselves into a bit of a corner with the difficulty. So many people complain (very loudly) about there just not being enough real hardcore content in the game and then when they get it, they complain that it's too hard to takes too much time. Then if the devs were to release a fight notably easier than DSR and TOP, people will complain that the fight was so easy or short or whatever compared to DSR and TOP. It's really a lose/lose situation now that they've set the bar where they have. particularly that they've done so two fights in a row.
As much as I love ultimates I really wish they gave us more time between the two most difficult ultimates released. I did not expect another one to drop this soon so i took a break after dsr and clearing the tier. Those two burnt me out. And then i see this ultimate being released so now trying to catch up on bis to start this ultimate. The bis process has been a pain. That in itself is turning me away from this ultimate.
Yeah this just affirms to me that I will never touch Ultimate content. Savage is already stressful to do, and to spend every evening doing Ultimate? Even considering I don’t have a life, Ultimate is just next level of not having an outside life to me.
As someone who doesn’t do these raids, I have such an appreciation for the skill level of the players. I’m genuinely happy for people when they clear.
This ultimate shows why casters doing less damage than melees as a default is extremely poor job design…casters have to work twice as hard to do less damage than a melee who essentially had free movement.
If ultimate players can’t handle having 2 an expansion I’ll gladly exchange that for more pvp content.
Best Ultimate!!!
I'm still progging DSR and I'm on eyes and it's weird how it feels an eternity to even get there when it's actually only 6 minutes into the fight. Imo as a humble midcore player TEA's first two phases has the best balance of being difficult but not at all too frustrating, unfortunately it gets too easy after tho
LMAO the thordan p2 music
I've heard the longest you can go in TOP, is like 19:30 or something crazy. I think when we cleared DSR week 8, we were the 4th slowest group in the world in terms of kill time, 19:06 but that's simply because we held DPS in every single phase, so realistically, DSR is quite shorter if you ignore p1
I love hot dogs.
It should just be 1 ultimate per expansion, namely since most people don't clear the ultimate until the next tier afterwards unlocks for higher ilvl stuff.
We are getting so much more content in terms of high end raiding coming than I think people realize. Due to the introduction of Variant dungeons, we will essentially be getting another set of extremes and savages. Sure, first one died due to having awful rewards, but later ones may have good rewards. Which will prompt high end raiders to do them, no?
And if they continue that trend, I can see us getting 3 variant dungeons an expansion to match each tier. Do we really NEED this much high end content? Most people are still plugging away at savage or DSR.
I just cleared P5S, my first ever savage, today. Started late because I have an anxiety disorder and I'm a tank so you see the issue here, right? It is exhausting learning a fight, then relearning it from another perspective, tank to melee, and cycling through healers, and need I mention Party Finder?
Even casually, this is exhausting and makes me hesitant to get back into the game at times. Now granted, now that I've cleared, I want to go right into P6S….But I still have those feelings, and I feel I'm not the only one. I can't imagine how burnt out someone is from P8S and the madness that is that fight. Shriek with snakes and a second phase that goes on forever.
Really puts in perspective why they put in island sanctuary. I hated it at first, but inbetween prog, and in between random PF groups, it is a life saver. I started at lvl 2 sanctuary, I'm now lvl 10 and I'll probably be getting that darn alligator mount before P7S.
Yea endwalker seems to be on a sadistic streak outside of P1S – P4S which felt normal and fun for a traditional Savage tier but ever since then yea things have been pretty crazy. I've been taking a long break since first tier just doing EX and other more casual content because I just speed ran doing the previous ultimates which imo hit the sweet spot of being fun, difficult (outside of uwu) and a decent length. But, they are still ultimate fights and like most I'm assuming it really isn't the fight necessarily but the team logistics of it all; people becoming burnt out, quitting and so on.
I think as long as the fights err on the side of being difficult but very fun instead of exhausting and challening; 2 ultimates an expansion is definitely feasible. At the end of the day, the game still has to be fun to play and not become just a chore and exhausting.
Does Exdeath or Kefka not appear in this?
I think 2 Ultimates per expansion, and the patches they release them in, are perfectly fine, especially for midcore statics. There's plenty of time between now and the 7.0 to clear both of them, and on top of that, you can do small gear optimizations later in the expansion for a little more DPS cushion. Yes, you won't get caught up in the TOP hype if you didn't complete DSR and elect to clear it first before TOP while it's still fresh in your mind, but the content will still be there later.
My personal gripe is… 19 minutes? That feels like an excessive time sink for getting to later phases, and it's about a good 8 pulls a night for most of us if you're progging the them. I'm fine with tight DPS and movement checks, don't get me wrong, but if there's so much going on in the fight already, why not cut out some of the "lighter" or less strenuous downtime (like phase 3 transition and phase 4) and spread out some of that required healing/mit for the party throughout the rest of the fight?
Double ultimate is fine, but doing DSR into Abyssos (overtuned) into TOP is terrible. We've said it many times before the ideal solution would be X.1 & X.5 ultimates, because then your MC groups can slowly prog that .1 ultimate, take a break for savage, come back to that .1 ultimate with bonus pots and .3 gear if need be. Then go into x.5 and finish the expansion off since that's ALWAYS the longest content drought anyway.
I'm going to be honest, it's something I've been echoing all over the community, this Ultimate should have been at 6.51. The fact of the matter is Ultimate after Ultimate is too much, and putting the second Ultimate there does a few things:
-One, it gives players that didn't finish the first Ultimate time to complete it and in a way it makes it "still in content" going into 6.3 and even 6.4.
-Second, it gives enough time for people to take breaks until the last raid tier.
-Third, if the last Ultimate is in 6.51, it gives the community a Capstone event, like this is where all of your raid expansion experience leads up too, and then jumping into the following x.11 patch it's a full year+, more than enough time to have cleared the last Ultimate and taken another break and hop into the next with a new prepped mentality.
I think double ultimates will be healthy overall sure these feel exhausting but it will always trump that feeling when we found out back in shadowbringers that tea was the only ultimate for the expansion maybe when the inevitable shinryu ultimate drops i think we would be all rested and ready to give it a go again
Being a mixed Grp of players, both Hard to Midcore. I personally don’t think we need 3 ultimates at all, as a normal living being with normal time to spent on content, u won’t be able to prog, 3 ultimates while also having savage etc. I am Personally interested in early proging ultimates and such. I would also have the time for it however my grp wouldn’t have the time to actually spent what is needed. So seeing it all from an normal point of view for the player base in general, 2 Ultimates are far enough. Especially when each Ultimate gets more and more unfriendly for newcomers.
As mentioned I would rly love to prog for world 1st and such once, I don’t know tho how I would perform I’m determined usually and I think not rly bad, and usually Mechanic safe. But also somewhat afraid of it, and I can’t rly leave my grp behind that would be just wrong tbf.
Only thing I wish was more deterministic mechanics and less priority "logics" and systems. This might not be that bad for statics but for PF these things are next to impossible to do.
After DSR and now this fight, I no longer want three ultimates.
I do want the 2nd ultimate of an expansion to be at the END before the next expansion though.
I've gone through doing Tier 1 of Savage with a small break, into MONTHS of DSR with two weeks of a break before Tier 2 Savage, and a month break before Omega. It's too much.
i watch a streamer named Kryptos_Four every time he does his ultimate prog streams. i first started watching while he was progging dsr, which took him from release to early december 2022 to clear. and when hes progging top, i can see it in his face the exhaustion. while i think that ultimates are healthy for the game, i think there needs to be a limit. people like kryptos, a midcore ultimate raider should be excited and motivated to clear but thats not happening. either 1 ultimate per expansion, or 1 hard and 1 less hard per expansion.
I only have 2 main criticisms.
1. Probably should do Ultimates every X.1 and X.5 patch. I think in general, its better for the dev team and player base to have these larger gaps.
People are more engaged post-X.0 expansion launch, and the game is more open ended in that final X.5 patch, and last ALOT longer and has more downtime.
2. They need to really step up when it comes to balancing and making things actually work. Its becoming too much of a problem now, that every high end content since release, has had SOMETHING that feels wrong, or is bugged, or the job balance is complete nonsense.
I dont know whats changed, maybe more people are on FF16 right now as it gets closer to finishing, but.. thats not how you run an MMO? You dont leave an MMO on a skeleton crew. Yoshi-P should know that.
I think the difficulty was way too much, but at the same time, i dont even know if the difficulty is intended, in the same way it wasnt intended in P8S, and is them simply just not doing a good job again.
I love this game, been playing it since 2.4 but Endwalker has been the least amount of confidence ive had in the dev team. There are too many problems, or balance issues, or new content we WANT to play just being dead on arrival. The game isnt in a good spot.
While i feel your point about being burnt is valid, i think you're only seeing the 3-ultimate rythm from a hardcore point of view. Sure, progging 3 ultimates from that caliber while doing the criterion dungeon(s?) and savage tiers sounds giga exhausting IF you chose to do all that on hardcore.
I think it would be great if they made 3 ultimates, but some players would probably have to review their ambitions lower, not necessarily the dev team.
One ultimate of this level, one easier each expac, more shorter, fun stuff like the criterion dungeons. I know after doing all four previous ultimates and now progging this one, I'd like more separation especially when this one has it's fair share of issues with snapshots and poorly designed sections like the p3 auto attack issue.
I think that having 2 ultimates per expansion is a very good amount but they really should spread them out more. Having them in back-to-back savage tiers is exhausting. I think a good balance would be having one in the first turns, then the third. I know a lot of people that got so burnt out by DSR then this current savage tier that they noped the F out of even attempting TOP because it was just too much in such a short amount of time for them. To me, Ultimates need to be approachable (in the sense of ease of stress getting into the fight) but that is 100% not the case with having DSR and TOP so close to each other.
They should do 2 ultimates. One in the X.1 patch and then have the SECOND ultimate REQUIRE you to get your relic done (have it be BIS for it) at the end of an expansion so we have some content to hold us over between expansions. I do not understand why they do not do this. It would give more meaning to complete our relic weapon grinds beyond just aesthetic since all available content is cleared already.
I'm kinda glad Kefka/Exdeath aren't in this. Hopefully one day we get a "Dissidea" style ultimate with Cloud of Darkness, Golbez and any other enemy from other Final Fantasies.
I think the answer is probably 2 ultimate's per expansion, if it is exhausting as you say it is (I don't actually do Savage and Ultimates… yet). The question is as to WHEN the ultimate's get released, and a lot of people suggest you get one for the 3rd turn of a savage instead of the second but you don't really end up changing anything doing that, cause you're going to end up with the new expansion almost immediately after that which itself has a savage being released shortly after, which would then be followed by an ultimate, which would then be followed by a savage before you get your break. But with the current release schedule you are simply moving your break time rather than spreading out your ultimate fights, so the question you really want to ask is "do you want a break before a new expansion? or do you want one in the middle of the expansion patch content?" Either way if you maintain two ultimate's per expansion you will still end up with an exhausting schedule and you're really just figuring out where the rest period lies.
I'm only in-tune with how the semi hardcore and beyond groups are doing, but for the midcore and casual gamers doing this ultimate, how far along are your groups? Any major roadblocks? How many hours a week do you guys do?
I think having 2 ultimates in an expansion is more than enough. And then we have 3 patches with the looong wait for next expansion in there to practice these before the next one comes out.