We’re back at this topic again…
Sources:
https://x.com/FF_XIV_JP/status/1882703988023603683
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/514622-PCGamer-%E8%A8%98%E4%BA%8B-%E5%8D%B1%E9%99%BA%E3%81%AA%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AD%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0-MOD
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With the Live Letter coming up relatively soon, I'm hopeful that this issue is address there in more detail. Any word on what possible actions they could be taking in regards to the new Blacklist system would be appreciated.
Personally, it kinda upsets me to see how the community backlash on Yoshi-P for something they implemented with genuine intention to help people. Every single comment is all about how Yoshi-P screwed up, how they're dissatisfied with this response…..without really contributing to the solution. Even for myself whom does not have programming nor IT background, has a vague understanding how the blacklist system works, and why they might be struggling to find a perfect workaround that does not have any compromise involved. But all the backlash is just people spewing nonsense like "just make it server-side", or "why does blacklist not work in two-way street", making them look even more ignorant than ever. Granted, the social systems in FFXIV is really outdated for a MMORPG, but man it hurts to see people shit on devs for attempting to do something out of genuine good intentions.
I think Square Enix is going to do something very keklol worthy, and not do anything very satisfying because their good at doing that. Very cute art by the way, thank you for the video.
Thx Vimi for keeping us updated on what the Japanese community is saying about this situation, It’s so sad that this happened when XIV was already facing a low point In It’s life and the fact that this exploit could have been prevented as It was found all the way back at DT’s launch. But alas…
I guess the best thing to do at this point Is watch It play out and see what SE does.
While it's nice that SE is actually acknowledging the issue, I agree that they still refuse to see the elephant in the room which is they need to police mods to some extent. To have this "don't do it, tee hee" and have no hammer unless there's some major issue with mods with world first or streams, shows that SE is still very resistant to wanting to fix this issue. SE needs to take a firm stance on mods and either incorporate the mods that help 14 and/or actively move to ban the more malicious mods.
It's unlikely that the Dev team didn't know that handling the blacklist like this client side was not extremely risky. So I suspect that the server infrastructure and code is such that it could not handle the additional load without major upgrades and updates. This is the same system that takes 5 minutes to load your friend list! They're going to have to put a halt to whatever they are working on to fix this, including changing all of the player account ids that have been exposed by this!
i cannot phucking FATHOM being in charge of a game like this, being warned that a change to a feature exposed a serious privacy exploit, having that exploit used the exact way i had been told it would be, and still offering literally no commitment to fixing the exploit or even any actual acknowledgement that we're aware of it. that is beyond lazy and reckless, and i'm glad the upset about this is universal across cultural and linguistic barriers
Thank you for pointing this stuff out. It's kinda hard for them to go around banning people now cuz they allowed this to go on for so long that they'd nuke the entire RP community just to enforce the rules proper. They need new guidelines. THAT THEY THEMSELVES CAN ACTUALLY FOLLOW, lol.
Between the horrible lewd stuff, the rampant battle content cheating, parsing toxicity, and now this, I'm almost at the point where I'd welcome an anti-cheat. It's plain that a huge chunk of the playerbase don't return their carts at the grocery store, so to speak. I never used anything more than base ACT with only damage meters, but I've stopped using even that.
SE is way too laid back on 3rd party tools/hack usage in ff14 😠 😡
Funny part its either all mods or no mods meaning we need to get rid of act. The line really needs to be drawn cause damn ppl are stupid as fuck
Odd that still to this day some players dont know about this spyware drama, do they even watch ff14 content?
Might need to redesign the blacklist and game code, and no anti-cheat isn't going to work cause how every anti-cheat can be defeat by a modder with information. Once a modder do this information is share and will be a cat and mouse like how youtube is trying to kill off adblocker and we all know how that going right now.
they fixed the controller bug for macs in patch 7.16.
they will patch the vulnerability, eventually.
This is a netcode issue more than anything. It's very bad in general 😢
11:00 If you have a rule and then do not punish someone for breaking it, you are saying you don't have a rule.
These same business men might understand it better if it impacted them or could be put into a different context they might understand better. How about I pay them a visit and not take my shoes off as I enter their home? It's not a crime, it's simply a rule in their culture. If they were to not correct my behaviour, what they are saying is my behaviour is allowed. They would also surely seek to correct my behaviour and not just let it slide, so why are they choosing to do so with FF14? They should very well know if a rule is only on paper and is never actually enforced, it's not a rule. It's a suggestion, and suggestions only stop the honest.
I am more or less on the side of just nuking plugins alltogether, Speak and hire the developers on XIVLauncher to work on a brand new client for XIV and incorporate "Safe and verified" plugins officially.
There isn't really another option for them, They either:
A) Nuke Plugins, lose 50-60% of the playerbase
B) Hire XIVLauncher devs and make a safe client with official plugins
C) Do what they always do, Issue a warning, ignore everything and pretend XIV is in a good place and people love the game.
I know what i would do as a developer, Official moderated plugins would be good for the game at this point, as the player base cannot be trusted to manage themselves.
Warframe does this with community artists, and shares the profits with those artists once the design becomes verified and gets put in the game.
YoshiP's response doesn't address the underlying issue at the moment. It is however impressive that he specifically called out the problem plugin itself and not a blanket on all which would have caused a catastrophic meltdown and panic. This is about as close as we'll get to any acknowledgement of their value for the community. Github can prevent forks from being uploaded but all that will do will drive it elsewhere and out of the hands of easy control. They don't have Nintendo-tier lawyers so until account data is removed client-side the problem will persist. I'm just glad that there's a statement at all, personally.
the system is in the game and anybody can make a self use plugin and just not making it public access.
There is also alot of misinformation going on. While the tool is very intrusive letting you see last visited places, alt characters and retainer names, it does not allow viewing of payment information, adresses or any other data. The game allows many of these things already through their own systems like the search function and already established and widely used plugins. While I am not defending it I do think people are very much blowing parts of this plugin up to be worse than it is
Thank you for covering this Vimi, your the best!!! 👍
This is non-issue for most of the average players. They turned blind eye for almost a decade and some of you weird ass westerners had to choose to be creepy mf. You guys created the problem and cried so hard for the fix. Solution: stop being weird. I don't like Yoshi P but his statement basically meant he expected you guys to behave like an adult.
Changing the game/servers so it stops broadcasting acount IDs client side is how they fix this. That would take dev time, and money, and there's already no money in the budget, so they probably won't bother. Despite being the game that keeps SE alive, they simply refuse to invest back into it.
And while changing the Blacklist, finally change how friendlist works and if someone is unfriended, forcibly remove the friendlist entry from the other party, too.
Something worth noting is that the only way to play 14 on the steamdeck (without installing windows over SteamOS) is using the unofficial launcher as square's native linux support is lacking, at least, last time I checked.
I'm not even going to lie, if I can't mod the game, I'm not playing it. Mods make the game 10x more enjoyable.
I'm not coming back until the the actual exploit in game is fixed. Simple as that. Yoshi-p does not express any intention to do that.
"Please don't stalk, uwu 🥺 it's not nice" is how the response comes off to me.
I've seen that multiple times with Japanese companies, Sony being a prime example of this for a lot of their divisions.
1. JP company releases a flawed product (from the customers point of view).
2. Enthusiastic users find ways to work around the flaws and early adopters recommend the product to others "but with some fixes".
3. JP company goes "wait no, you're supposed to accept the flaws, we're proud of them, please stop and be a good silent but paying customer".
4. Users on the sidelines who were expecting the company to implement more official ways for the workarounds understand that it's never gonna happen and start using the workarounds too.
5. JP company stays silent, hoping that it will pass, or threaten legal action.
6. The workarounds start being seen by the whole user base as a necessity, and some users push things way further than the initial enthusiastic users would have gone.
7. JP company starts using the (technical or legal) hammer to stop the workarounds (we may be there soon with FFXIV).
8. Disappointed users leave the product and criticize very loudly the JP company, with the backlash reaching what would have been potential clients who will now avoid the product.
9. JP company is dumbfounded about what just happened, has to fire a bunch of people and dogeza to their investors, but will repeat the same mistakes for their next product (if its product type isn't completely canned to appease investors).
All CS3 had to do was to provide an official API to allow for safe user addons, and keep important stuff server-side.
You can't tell me macros are enough, they don't even provide conditional statements, and allowed things like custom menus are just a string of ugly hacks (copying unused class toolbars for each click, really?).
EDIT:
CS3 can't ignore that many users ended up finding "that tool" because they didn't want to enter their password at each game launch, especially on Steam Deck, but the studio never did anything to "patch" that natural path to external tools.
would have done well to have a script for this particular video, it was a bit hard to follow
Whats with the forced voice trying to sound like a 10 year old girl….. and some adults like this shit? Bunch of sick pedos.
There is a difference between mods and cheating. Most people that use mods are just catering to their fantasy and cosmetics. Now tools like ACT or the tool in question just cause problems and foster fear. It’s a complex issue that won’t be solved for a while
The mod scene for ff14 has gone haywire and off the chain since Endwalker with a slow startup in Shadowbringers (Though they always existed) and Dalamud being one of of major mod tools that easily allows anyone to get into the mod scene for the game. There was no enforcement or crackdown on these mods less someone reports them and luckily gets them banned for any proof. Thus we have entered the era of the mod scene as "So long as we are not hurting the game directly we are fine, right?" moments.
I feel as if it is def the team afraid of outright Issuing a C&D or directly taking action against the people behind mods like Dalamud because they know (In the western world at least) a lot of their playerbase would jump ship but I for one am firm in the belief that if you only played FF14 because of mods to completely overhaul the character design and artstyle of the game to make your character look not Final Fantasy, you shouldn't be playing Final Fantasy 14 to begin with as games like IMVU and Second Life are right around the corner.
However the real grey talk of mods for me is always utility and certain mods DO make the game better, but I pray if they do ever take mods down they will implement some of the mods used by a majority as lighter versions or features.
but It's like going into a Sandwich shop to order their special sandwich, then at the table you shove hamburger patties, obscene amounts of ketchup and mustard among other things that the shop does not provide when if you wanted a hamburger, it is literally a few doors down. You're ruining a perfectly good sandwich because you want a hamburger.