21 thoughts on “Limit Maximum – Obvious Cheater Fakes Blind Progression in FFXIV”
one can only hope that this video spreads enough to the point where people will stop putting him on a pedestal in all these ffxiv-related talk shows on streams like he's the new voice of all raiders. But seeing how he's quite a big name out there due to WoW, it obviously creates an opportunity for smaller, original ffxiv content creators to get their name out there by collaborating with him. And sadly, clout > integrity. GCBTW …wait no, it's BCBTW now! :^)
3:17 This is false and makes no sense. If you look at his questlog, you will see that max has a main scenario quest you can only get if you have done the Crystal Tower raids. They cleared Seat of Sacrifice before e9s so this is probably confirmation bias. 15:07 That, to me, sounds like he's saying multiple swords would fall, not that they were going to move. It's fairly reasonable to expect more swords to fall around the edge of the arena just like we saw multiple swords in Innocence. The rest is just them either getting lucky with their strats or you singling out Max for figuring out some mechanics just like Nagura and Ninjamax did many times.
Overall, this is pretty weak evidence. I'd need more context for the Shiva slide part, the Hallowed Ground part looks weird but sadly the vods seem to be gone so there's no way to check whether he knew or not. They could have tried to lb earlier during prog and saw the boss take no damage. I don't know what the Clees thing is all about but that sounds like something that should have made it to the video.
He's right about one thing, it is an insane thing to act and pretend that you would do things blind when you're not. But the reason why is pretty simple. Max is a small man, who needs to feed his ego and pretend like he's some god gamer. He needs to put down others and fluff himself up. He wanted to come from WoW to a smaller game, look like the big bad raider who can figure everything out because he's world first material and put down others and call them cringe and gaslight his own party members to make himself feel big. Can't wait for Xenos to try and clout chase harder and defend him and call everyone else cringe despite being the most cringe person in the FFXIV community.
There are more examples and clips than what's shown here, moments where Max just sees the mech once and instantly knows what to do. I think Max likely didn't actually watch guides per se and is probably blind for the most part. Instead, he likely just gained some knowledge of some parts of fights via other methods. Being non-blind doesn't have to mean watching a guide nor does it have to mean you know everything there is to know in a fight.
As for "why would Max ruin the fun of blind prog by looking ahead", keep in mind that Max is first and foremost, an entertainer. Like Asmon has said various times, there is a fine line between prog being entertaining to watch and prog being awfully boring to watch. And this isn't just Max's own stream that he has to consider; other people in the party also have sizable audiences. It's entirely possible for Max to want the prog speed to be relatively quickly and reduce some "unnecessary" repeated pulls that would have bored viewers. Now, this is of course a theory. All of this video is a speculation as there is no concrete proof. The point here is to show a possible counter to the argument of blind prog fun and to show why it's likely that he looked ahead.
For those thinking why anyone should care about whether Max was blind or not, for the vast majority of people, of course you shouldn't care. His stream has been entertaining and a relatively quickly prog likely have made it a better viewer experience for most. However, there is a lot of blind prog value that's been lost if Max did in fact look ahead. Max is extremely smart and a very talented raider with different mindsets as he came from another game. There is a lot for FFXIV raiders to gain by learning from him. By looking ahead, he wouldn't display the same kind of thought process and problem solving compared to being completely blind, which means less to the raiding community and those looking for blind prog content. Furthermore, Max isn't just being called out by random people, he's being called out by people who are top world proggers and those that actually blind prog in the race. To them, it's a matter of disingenuity of something they know well. Anyone in the same position would at least raise an eyebrow.
Ultimately I am very glad that Max progged through the FFXIV raids, and I hope he reconsiders his priorities in the future when it comes to streaming raid prog content. The conflict of wanting to have a relatively fast clear for entertainment and not being able to due to limitations in the group is one that may very well arise (again).
The fact that you guys care is the cringiest thing i've ever seen, I hope he doesnt give it attention too because at the end of the day, this doesnt matter at all, let people have fun however they want.
reminder that this max guy went into a club in game and stood in the corner alone while saying "heh..these guys don't know who I am..if they knew who I was they'd all crowd around me.." was very cringe
I mean he had to do normal WOL to do EX WOL and in normal WOL also uses Hollowed when you try to lb him? either way yall need to touch some grass if this is what you are still concerned about.
Pretty Garbage Video. the machancs in this game don't take 500iq to solve. Once they started the first tier he started playing the game a lot more so he's going to see mechanics used in the past. not to mention things that give you tells via visuals, emnity list cast bars, and having other people who also have been playing the game a lot since they 1st started. To say it's cheating is a stretch. sure maybe it wasn't fully blind (with just making it hard to avoid spoliers) but this video is definitely just trying to take a stab at his credibility.
At the end of the day, who gives a fuck though? Seriously, you joined Youtube just so you could post this which in no way affects you in any way shape or form
It wasn't in this video, but I thought it was so strange when they got to E3S, and Max gave a whole breakdown before they load into the instance to screenshot your tsunami debuffs. I thought, "Hmmm alright that's smart! I suppose he's heard that e3s is a puzzle fight and thought ahead."
They get to tsunami 1, die in chaotic fashion with little to no information visually, but everyone screenshotted their debuffs for Max. You would think the first thing Max would do is read the debuffs BEFORE giving his solution to the mechanic, right? Wrong. Max Magically figures out and gives a common PUG solution to tsunami 1 BEFORE reading a single debuff. He goes back and reads them, but only after already forming a strat for the mechanic that just happens to be correct. We can excuse a few lucky guesses, it happens, but when its fight after fight, raid tier after raid tier….
Its just unbelievable at times. Even sfia couldn't bite his tongue on how insane it is that they are "coming up with bilibili lions" as their lion strat. I understand FF14 streamers are incentivized not to call him out on blatantly cheating (at least in some parts its pretty hard to defend him…) for stream content, and to avoid drama/hate since Max and Limit are kind of a big deal in WoW, but some of this is just ridiculous. It is even insulting to the people that figure out these strats originally, just to have Max "copy paste" their strats as his own. Massive respect to Scripe's group for being Legit, and giving us what we wanted out of limit max's group.
There is a picture floating around of him having the youtube searchbox open and one of the previous searchs was an E2S guide. Seeing as max was getting his shit pushed in by Titania i don't believe he figured out any of these mechs on his own.
everybody knew this already in the actual WF groups like clees, it was just WoW players and the GCBTW in denial thinking that their (not even world first anymore) players were god tier mechanic recognizers and the fact that echo took a fuckton longer to figure out lions despite going blind as well LOL
one can only hope that this video spreads enough to the point where people will stop putting him on a pedestal in all these ffxiv-related talk shows on streams like he's the new voice of all raiders. But seeing how he's quite a big name out there due to WoW, it obviously creates an opportunity for smaller, original ffxiv content creators to get their name out there by collaborating with him. And sadly, clout > integrity. GCBTW …wait no, it's BCBTW now! :^)
Great video. the kbm uptime in shiva was hilarious to see. That strategy took a long time to emerge and max pulls it out of the hat?
came expecting salt but left sus as hell ( of max)
good job. im a bit saddened he cheated himself out of a genuine prog experience, especially after all the preaching and hooting he does
Just a reminder Xeno was co-streaming their progression and he was asked multiple times if they were cheating. He repeatedly said no.
3:17 This is false and makes no sense. If you look at his questlog, you will see that max has a main scenario quest you can only get if you have done the Crystal Tower raids. They cleared Seat of Sacrifice before e9s so this is probably confirmation bias.
15:07 That, to me, sounds like he's saying multiple swords would fall, not that they were going to move. It's fairly reasonable to expect more swords to fall around the edge of the arena just like we saw multiple swords in Innocence.
The rest is just them either getting lucky with their strats or you singling out Max for figuring out some mechanics just like Nagura and Ninjamax did many times.
Overall, this is pretty weak evidence. I'd need more context for the Shiva slide part, the Hallowed Ground part looks weird but sadly the vods seem to be gone so there's no way to check whether he knew or not. They could have tried to lb earlier during prog and saw the boss take no damage. I don't know what the Clees thing is all about but that sounds like something that should have made it to the video.
He's right about one thing, it is an insane thing to act and pretend that you would do things blind when you're not. But the reason why is pretty simple. Max is a small man, who needs to feed his ego and pretend like he's some god gamer. He needs to put down others and fluff himself up. He wanted to come from WoW to a smaller game, look like the big bad raider who can figure everything out because he's world first material and put down others and call them cringe and gaslight his own party members to make himself feel big. Can't wait for Xenos to try and clout chase harder and defend him and call everyone else cringe despite being the most cringe person in the FFXIV community.
Would it not make more sense to compare these clips to blind prog WoW progression to see if his behavior is noticeably different?
There are more examples and clips than what's shown here, moments where Max just sees the mech once and instantly knows what to do. I think Max likely didn't actually watch guides per se and is probably blind for the most part. Instead, he likely just gained some knowledge of some parts of fights via other methods. Being non-blind doesn't have to mean watching a guide nor does it have to mean you know everything there is to know in a fight.
As for "why would Max ruin the fun of blind prog by looking ahead", keep in mind that Max is first and foremost, an entertainer. Like Asmon has said various times, there is a fine line between prog being entertaining to watch and prog being awfully boring to watch. And this isn't just Max's own stream that he has to consider; other people in the party also have sizable audiences. It's entirely possible for Max to want the prog speed to be relatively quickly and reduce some "unnecessary" repeated pulls that would have bored viewers. Now, this is of course a theory. All of this video is a speculation as there is no concrete proof. The point here is to show a possible counter to the argument of blind prog fun and to show why it's likely that he looked ahead.
For those thinking why anyone should care about whether Max was blind or not, for the vast majority of people, of course you shouldn't care. His stream has been entertaining and a relatively quickly prog likely have made it a better viewer experience for most. However, there is a lot of blind prog value that's been lost if Max did in fact look ahead. Max is extremely smart and a very talented raider with different mindsets as he came from another game. There is a lot for FFXIV raiders to gain by learning from him. By looking ahead, he wouldn't display the same kind of thought process and problem solving compared to being completely blind, which means less to the raiding community and those looking for blind prog content. Furthermore, Max isn't just being called out by random people, he's being called out by people who are top world proggers and those that actually blind prog in the race. To them, it's a matter of disingenuity of something they know well. Anyone in the same position would at least raise an eyebrow.
Ultimately I am very glad that Max progged through the FFXIV raids, and I hope he reconsiders his priorities in the future when it comes to streaming raid prog content. The conflict of wanting to have a relatively fast clear for entertainment and not being able to due to limitations in the group is one that may very well arise (again).
The fact that you guys care is the cringiest thing i've ever seen, I hope he doesnt give it attention too because at the end of the day, this doesnt matter at all, let people have fun however they want.
reminder that this max guy went into a club in game and stood in the corner alone while saying "heh..these guys don't know who I am..if they knew who I was they'd all crowd around me.." was very cringe
I mean he had to do normal WOL to do EX WOL and in normal WOL also uses Hollowed when you try to lb him? either way yall need to touch some grass if this is what you are still concerned about.
Pretty Garbage Video. the machancs in this game don't take 500iq to solve. Once they started the first tier he started playing the game a lot more so he's going to see mechanics used in the past. not to mention things that give you tells via visuals, emnity list cast bars, and having other people who also have been playing the game a lot since they 1st started. To say it's cheating is a stretch. sure maybe it wasn't fully blind (with just making it hard to avoid spoliers) but this video is definitely just trying to take a stab at his credibility.
At the end of the day, who gives a fuck though? Seriously, you joined Youtube just so you could post this which in no way affects you in any way shape or form
Seeing him get mad at THD for recognizing mechanic reuse is the funniest shit.
It wasn't in this video, but I thought it was so strange when they got to E3S, and Max gave a whole breakdown before they load into the instance to screenshot your tsunami debuffs. I thought, "Hmmm alright that's smart! I suppose he's heard that e3s is a puzzle fight and thought ahead."
They get to tsunami 1, die in chaotic fashion with little to no information visually, but everyone screenshotted their debuffs for Max. You would think the first thing Max would do is read the debuffs BEFORE giving his solution to the mechanic, right? Wrong.
Max Magically figures out and gives a common PUG solution to tsunami 1 BEFORE reading a single debuff. He goes back and reads them, but only after already forming a strat for the mechanic that just happens to be correct. We can excuse a few lucky guesses, it happens, but when its fight after fight, raid tier after raid tier….
Its just unbelievable at times. Even sfia couldn't bite his tongue on how insane it is that they are "coming up with bilibili lions" as their lion strat. I understand FF14 streamers are incentivized not to call him out on blatantly cheating (at least in some parts its pretty hard to defend him…) for stream content, and to avoid drama/hate since Max and Limit are kind of a big deal in WoW, but some of this is just ridiculous. It is even insulting to the people that figure out these strats originally, just to have Max "copy paste" their strats as his own. Massive respect to Scripe's group for being Legit, and giving us what we wanted out of limit max's group.
bruh just bring back the dislikes idk why you removed them
There is a picture floating around of him having the youtube searchbox open and one of the previous searchs was an E2S guide. Seeing as max was getting his shit pushed in by Titania i don't believe he figured out any of these mechs on his own.
everybody knew this already in the actual WF groups like clees, it was just WoW players and the GCBTW in denial thinking that their (not even world first anymore) players were god tier mechanic recognizers
and the fact that echo took a fuckton longer to figure out lions despite going blind as well LOL
Surprised no one has placed this on r/ffxiv to get more eyes and possibly more drama 😉
I don't know what's worse, people willingly choosing to use ElvUI in 14; or discord light mode users.
lmfao what an absolute dropkick