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I hope that in time I can view p8s with the same optimism as I do with e8s ("it sucked to do but I recognise the fight's potential") but goddamn I hate that second phase so much. It exemplifies a lot of what I dislike about the current raid design ethos with mechanics so punishing there's no real room for recoverability (which further adds to the issue of healers being bored out of their minds in reclears), and forcing the 2min meta onto jobs that didn't work that way (I'll forever miss you Paladin).
I also worry, and this is somewhat out of left field really, how both p8s and p12s will survive into the unsyncable era of their lifespan. The punishment for failing Shapes or High Concept outscales gear creep, and I don't see parties skipping either until late into 7.x's cycle (also something to be said for p8s's damage buff phase? How will that work with unsync?).
that's surprising i thought hesperos was really boring lol
While I haven't done savage, I'm shocked to see 2 of my fav fights in this tier to be the two worst. Those fights are just fun. Especially when compared to other fights that barely have any mechanics or those that I've heard about and why they were bad like P3S
P12S p2 is so bad it takes it to bottom 3 for me. It’s so boring. Especially offtanking. P1 is great, but the huge miss on p2 just killed it for me.
P2 was so good, it, P5, P10 and P12-1 are my favourite fights
If i were to rank it based on my pf experience, from worst to best. it would be -> P10S-P3S-P9S-P8S-P4S-P12S-P7S-P6S-P11S-P2S-P5S-P1S. P10S is the worst thing ever. P3S was Living hell on earth with the fucking spreads. P9S is incredibly boring yet annoying enough to create ruckus due to lc1 and surprisingly lc2… P8s was impossible because of snakes 2, part 2 was HC, NA and dominion memes. P4S is a curtain call and act2 fuckfest. P12S, pf is consistent enough with part 1, but part 2 is absolute dogshit with classical 2 pvp and caloric 1 jank. P7S was some backloaded bullshit in the end with ppl being unable to do harvests, also the strat split with the last harvest with oppo or inumaru was super annoying. P6S is just kind of there, a bit cursed sometimes in reclears but not the biggest offender. P2S was just, occasionally wiping to stupid shit but arrows 2 and 3 were another pvp shitfest. P5S, Ruby 5 was the deciding factor between a kill and a wipe i guess. P1S was, chains 2… All in all P8S is objectively my favourite savage fight of all time despite the miserable pf experience.
Excluding 11 and 12 cause we haven't reached them yet:
10) P7 – I don't mind this but it is rather dull for a third fight, and it only gets interesting at the end.
9) P3 – I'm only putting P7 below it because it wasn't as challenging as it should have been. P3 was, but…I don't know, it's just not remotely fun to me. I didn't feel that rewarding rush for doing one of the harder mechs correctly like Fountains or Tornadoes, it was more annoyed relief. I hate it. Annoying mechanics, annoying timings, annoying clunky tethers every 10 seconds. Nothing on T12, and it eludes me why people keep putting this higher. [starts engraving name on tombstone on this hill]
8) P6 – I don't think it's that bad, but they could've made the + / x patterns less predictable, and the Cachexias were decent.
7) P1 – good for what it was, can't really fault it.
6) P9 – it's a weird gauntlet of rather simple mechs with a few walls thrown in, Levinstrike is a bit wild for a first fight, but overall it's decent.
5) P4 – Mmm I'm not feeling this one as much as you. Pinax was as cool as it was frustrating, but a huge swathe of the first fight was extremely easy and unengaging due to the fixed positioning for the orbs. Second phase was better and thematically cool, but I don't think it's a top tier savage fight. First phase brings it down a bit for me.
4) P5 – Pretty fascinating for a first fight, some tight dances in Ruby 5, and the infamous Devour being notoriously unforgiving. Fairly engaging throughout though.
3) P2 – Hot take? I just think it's incredibly well done with its use of the arena space, the careful positioning requirements in places. A breath of fresh air to raid design like Cloud of Darkness was prior. The start of Limit Cut: The Raid Tier.
2) P10 – Still working on this one but I don't mind, I can see why it's become so beloved.
1) P8 – My old raid group would string me up for this opinion. I do think it's one of the more tightly-tuned final fights, possibly the hardest since Midas? But you can't fault the pacing of either fight. The first one is just non stop checks to your arena awareness, the god damn overlapping arena grids, was it octa or tetra?, working out snake priorities…it was wild. Second phase also opens hard. Second phase has some filler, and second iterations of Alignment and Concept are a little underwhelming, but overall this fight was a wild ride.
p8s is the most boring thing I've ever done in this game
I kept failing mechanics bc I'd keep forgetting I'm still in a fight
There is just so much hot air in between everything
Being a healer didn't help with how engaging the fight felt
The only thing different for me in that list is I would have bumped P11 up a couple of places. But that's because I come from the perspective of Asphodelos being my first tier, so I never did E11
Encounter design is kinda stale rn. I just feel there’s nothing interesting to the fights to keep you engaged. Bosses just stay static in the middle of the fight as mechanics occur. Wish movement of the boss became a more important role for tanks but the most they do is just spin the boss around. Raids don’t pour out constant damage so it’s easy to just anticipate pressing your healer buttons. DPS don’t have anything interesting to do. I would hope the new expansion revitalises raid design but I suspect they won’t change it up
Top 4
2
10
12
8
One thing I'll say that has nothing to do with the mechanics itself is P12s.
I love the reference in the name and how the names of the mechanics contradict it. Unless you studied Greek mythology or found out in a subreddit, seeing that level of creativity for a boss for it to go over many of our heads is insane.
I know I am biased because it was my very first on-content tier-4th fight I cleared, but P8S has easily been my top fight of the series. I love so much about this fight as a healer (AST): the variable mechanic timing (2 healing CD sequences to learn), the damage output to heal, learning to be the shotcaller for my group. The music for both phases. The lore using us as his experiements. Weaving casts fluidly with the movements for Snakes and NA1/2. The absolute crunch of so many sound effects like Aioniopyr/Limitless/Dominion. The whole fight is visually stunning and got me so hype every time. The entirely of the post-phoenix-res portion feels like one long 40% enrage check, and I adore when a fight almost makes you hold your breath in anticipation of not choking on the final stretch. Maybe I would have a different opinion on a non-healing job, but as a healer it was a phenomenal experience.
As someone who only started doing savage when current this expansion (I had done a handful of older fights way later and extremes since shb on release), I really liked p2s. p1s felt too easy but in week 1 p2s jumped it enough enough it actually felt like a new area of content and executing the fight was really fun and made me want to do it.
I still feel certain that 5-7 were developed in a different order from their release and then changed at the metaphorical last minute.
I may be wrong, but it genuinely feels like that to me from both a mechanical design perspective and a story-side perspective.
You had me completely on board until the the ordering of the top 3, personally I would've put 3- P4S (The music doesn't change, phase 1 is just recycled at the end and phase 2 is all told to you visually every mechanic so it didn't feel like we solved anything), 2- P8S same reasons you had, 1- P10S is just my absolute favorite savage fight I've played in YEARS.
Asphodelos was also my favorite, I actually enjoyed progging P3s as a tank
I really liked pinax as a mechanic. There is so much RNG involved with tile location, order of elements, cardinal shifts, sword/cape so that every pull feels different while not feeling too complicated. I think p4s p2 suffers from act 1 having to act as a tutorial, and act 4 / finale being a bit simple but otherwise I really enjoyed how the raid mechanics fit the boss being the director of a play! It's the classic FF14 raid moment where all 8 people do something and you end up surviving as a party but even more directly told as part of the raid mechanic. So cool when everyone takes the tower one by one or 'take a bow' one by one in curtain call. I also think curtain call was a really nice "you actually have to heal instead of rely on oGCDs" moment! You don't actually get too many of those…
I disliked 6 a lot more than 7 tbh. But 7 wasn’t great
P11 is my favorite simply because of the theme. Fighting a happy Themis for one last time, in the basking glow of a sunny and hopeful Amaurot, was very nice feeling for me. And the soundtrack that goes along with it has so much joyful passion in it.
When my static was doing curtain call on content, we would always refer to it as a like a 2 1/2 minute trust fall. You literally have to stand there and focus on YOUR JOB and trust everyone else to do it too, you can't rely on anyone but your other members. So stressful but still so very cool
After oracle of darkness, the second phase of athena doesn't feel like the final boss. Even if you remember enrage, which was just diabolical there. There's not even much point in talking about the rest of the mechanics.
But the most complex and interesting fight I consider and will consider E8S. Shiva was great. The fight was made quite complex. We used stan, immobilization, esuna, and interruption, which we NEVER used until Athena.
7 lower than 6 is kinda looney but I agree with the sentiment for why the bad floors are bad
How would they rate if compared alongside Eden, Omega, Alexander and Coils
I love the mechs of P10S I main tank and the tower tankbuester is the best way to do a tanbuster I have seen. But doing it in party finder is hell. A lot of people lie in their prog point. Bonds 3 is the hardest mech cuz if 1 dpesnt know what to do is a wipe
100% Agree p4s was the best savage fight this expac
I find p10s very unfair to be honest. It's not that it's hard, because mechanically it isn't, it's just that there is very little room for mistakes. The difficulty, to me at least, only comes from the size of the aoe on bonds and the tight timing on bonds 3, the rest is honestly not that hard. Most of the deaths on that fight are just "Oh no you did the mechanic right, you were just half a step too far to the right". What makes it so frustratring is the delirious amount of body check in this fight, holy sh*t there are a lot of those.
p10s is suppose to be at 12 on this list. other then that I like his thoughts on p5s vs p9s
The bulk of Abyssos is what I can only describe as 'raid sludge'. Literally 80% of the mechanics across the tier share names with each other; you don't know which Ruby Glow I'm thinking of because we had to number them ourselves; every mechanic in Hedgemone is a fucking Polyominoid Sigma or a Cachexia; there aren't even gestures towards differentiating them, because they all feel the fucking same. P5S is just obnoxious because it's a first floor that is almost as pleasantly sleepy as P1S (which I frankly had more fun with despite it being literally almost as easy as the normal just because it meant it was fun to reclear and fuck around with for 7 minutes once a week), but then Devour and RG5 are exactly punishing enough that you have to give a shit and they're both 5+ minutes into the fight. Hedgemone is literally easier than Carbuncle because every single on of her mechanics is 'learn which offset X marker is the tell for this mechanic and then stand on the correct tile' for like 10 minutes straight. Agdistis is a 2 minute fight with an 8 minute waiting room between pulls. And I'm gonna be honest– I didn't even fucking make it to P8S not because I couldn't, but because I'd looked at guides for 8-2 and thought 'wow, that also doesn't seem very fun, I think I'm just going to give up raiding for a while'.
I feel like there's gotta be special mention to a raid tier so dull that it genuinely accelerated my burnout and made me quit the whole video game for the foreseeable future, honestly. It's incredible how big of a step down it was after Asphodelos genuinely being an extremely good prog experience and super fun weekly static reclears. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes but it really feels like something happened.
honestly, p4s was decent, not that amazing but decent, Pinax can go die in a fire, such a poorly designed mechanic, if you get spreads at your first, you better be at your position or pop sprint and pray that you don't clip someone else randomly.
also HARD disagree with p10s, but that's a gripe i got in this expansion as a whole, the over reliance on body checks, 1 dude fucked up? well, either his/her partner dies, or 2 other die (maybe even 4 if light parties)
seems overkill the amount of body checks they ended up relying upon.
also another issue i just have with the last 2 raid tiers is how poorly the snapshots were made, normally you can easily see the snapshot, but especially in p9, 10 and 11s (haven't completed p12s yet, but doubt it'll be much different unfortunately)
1 mechanic is super generous, then the other mechanic snapshots you when the mechanic hasn't even resolved yet, for example with p11s knockbacks, i'm on 22ms ping, if i pop my knockback immunity after 3/4th of the cast bar is done, it didn't register and i'm in the wall, i know that this is the case, but then you got p10s in/out mechanic which snapshots you a good second to half a second before it resolved into the donuts/point blanks where you can easily stand in it and move out without getting hit, the snapshots are all over the place, which normally they're fairly concistent with.
also granted, enjoying a raid tier/fight heavily relies on your envirement, are you in PF and getting bad parties? are you in a static with super concistent members or perhaps the opposite, if you got the 1st and 3rd, you're not liking these fights.
im surprised you liked P10s. tho i think its not a bad fight, its just annoying overall. PF on otherhand was the real Savage experience 😂
was crazy that phoinix ended up being the best third turn this expansion. p11s was extremely disappointing. They brought back elidibussy just to make it a glorified extreme fight