00:00 Intro
00:01:58 Part 1: Why 24man?
00:06:26 Part 2: “Party Finder is bad!”
00:16:06 Part 3: Entitlement
00:29:36 Part 4: Bodychecks
00:44:58 Part 5: “It’s not midcore!”
00:50:43 Part 6: Make your own group
01:00:05 Outro
Level7Sloth’s video:
https://youtu.be/luJ48El1tuk?si=iTQq_FzNSxJXXeVx
source
1. Skill issue is part of it, but eventually it comes down to personal accountability which includes having some patience with others. Soft skills such as patience are just as important when working with others. I find the FFXIV community (NA at least) to be very selfish when it comes to party content. They claim to be a very "progressive" community, but they never "pay it forward" like truly progressive people do. Once they get their burger king crown they quit giving out comms, and once they clear a fight they don't want to help others. I haven't made many friends in the 6 years I have played this game because I find most people are very selfish in FFXIV even compared to WoW. I'm still friends with people from WoW because we made connections by raiding together, failing together, and helping each other.
2. And yes, "gamers" complain about difficulty so a dev will make it more difficult (see Wildstar). Then gamers will complain the content is too hard. You see this in all MMO's because they don't understand the difference between an MMO and stand alone RPG design-wise.
6. I was with a group that did EX3 blind. Did it take us longer? Yes, but we only met about 2 hrs per week and skipped some weeks (holidays). Funny enough, we passed ice phase the exact same week as some acquaintances who were using Hector strats and met more frequently. it took us 2-3 weeks longer to clear than them, but if we were to compare the actual hours it took to clear I genuinely think our blind group would be in the lead. BUT in those weeks we didn't meet, we were still communicating and discussing the best way to handle certain mechanics based on the jobs present.
the fight looks fun. its nowhere enough to get me to resub. hopefully the devs release something that compels me to return. great video cuttlefish. i played on a jp sever raiding and its not as hard as you make it out to be. the expectation is higher and they call out positions and numbers at the fight start. plus the dps is much much higher on average compared to NA/EU.
As someone whos currently quit the game for the foreseeable future, i think the issue is that the content is good… at the wrong time
Its like if you broke both your legs, and someone came to your house with a new bike, like yeah sure the bike is really nice, and it'll fun to ride… but my fucking legs are broken, what good does this do me now?
This content is worthless, because the problem with FFXIV is Job design, and gear design, and content scheduling, and progression, and everything else
Adding a new piece of content thats cool, doesnt matter because
A. I already quit
B. Chances of me doing it when im back are SLIM, because why? I guess the mount, or if i want hideous armour
They need to fix the larger issues at hand with just how the game is structured and designed, and so when this content doesnt "fix the problem", its "bad content"
Think part of the issue is Square Enix is a small indie company with only 5 people working on this game being paid minimum wage. Having 2 of those people working on Chaotic Raids instead of other content means we missed out on potentially better content.
And while this is an exaggeration the whole 'just because x content got made doesn't mean they don't use resources on other content' is clearly not true when it comes to FFXIV. Square is not reinvesting in this game and making it impossible for them to make enough content to meet player needs.
CAR > FRU and I will not hear otherwise. It's so goddamn clean.
But you see, PF IS bad, the way i cleared it was literally realize I was on Elemental instead of Mana, my home DC, and went back there to get the clear.
I'm fast coming to conclusion that high end filters for players who are psychopaths, sociopaths narcissists, and far end spectrum autistics. There is profoundly no understanding of other ways of thinking/motivation/values. It's just a total blindness to the other issues and wider context.
Why did 'I' enter? Assumed they wanted to create something that could be casually entered on a whim like extremes can be even with PF.
The one main reason, well if I didn't enter Chaotic I had F all else to do. And three days after Chaotic I let my sub run out. A bunch of other people did the same after they only just came back.
Carry on making chaotics, criterions, savage, ultimate. W the F ever. Maybe the game will be ok maybe it won't. But I have to wonder if the high end sociopaths even have the capacity to project the medium to long term future of the game. I just think it didn't get adequate, necessary, 'weighting' in their thinking process which is 'it works in my life view'.
Like I say, carry on making this content. I'm doing other things. (As are more and more. It's ok, I know the sociopaths aren't sorry to lose me.)
I was going to argue with the body check section, but there is no point in referring a discussion with someone who on a clear sunny day wants to claim the sky is green. "The chaotic checks were forgiving and not that hard", fine it's just a minority of farming parties making a "huge" account of noise, or it's a shared dillusion.
People are people are people. They are not going to change, it's noticing that people need to change that's just childish.
Just make it a 15 man body check, who gives a f if you have to carry 9 people.
I have NEVER, NEVER, heard anyone rave about sidolfus specifically. I barely met anyone who has been playing that long. "most people like sidolfus and it's because of how it was 10 years ago" wtf are we smoking.
And dude, the reason people felt tricked it's bad messaging, "false signals", it was harder to clear and get the rewards than Savage 1/2, and with the 'temperature' of the game since a relic absent EW and awful MSQ, people were just deludedly 'desperate'. It's basic human nature that's EASY to understand.
This is 'normal'/'casual' human understanding and empathy, it's easy to get, if your not a sociopath. This is not 'ultimate' tier politics.
Blind prog and Ulti are the only two reasons I boot this game anymore lol
"Try it out", yeah I did. You can't even do an unreal in a discord with out some prick bringing up logs at least once. Repeating the same criticism every time someone repeats a mistake. 'you said it, they understand, now shut up and let them practice' F that discord shit and it's ACT bs.
So, a raid for raiders who just got FRU to prog is happy with the raid, and people who wanted anything else aside scripted DDR dances – not. Midcore content is not something that hard to figure out, the battle design of this game itself is the problem to reach it, you either make puzzles and positionals too strict or too loose, the real asnwer is reactionary gameplay with personal responsibility that sadly is not achievable with such bad netcode.
The thing is, if I cannot get a party for content inside the game, I will not be doing it.
this fight wasn't even that hard to PF, took maybe the same amount of time as M3S or M4S in PF.
1 hour video of just talking about FF14 stuff is just so damn perfect when you are doing eureka/bozja, thank you!
Something I've noticed about players is they are really, REALLY bad at giving feedback. They don't know the difference between "this is not good content" and "this is not good content for me"
Honestly pf has been nothing but a blessing for me. Cleared m1s – m3s and i've met cool af ppl who took time to explain stuff to me. Op just jelly lol
Hey Alright
The whole video was valid up until about 6 minutes in when you discussed Party Finder. The issue is 2 things 1.) Party Finder should not BE this insufferable and only is due to inconsistent playstyle and bad players, purely thats it and 2.) the community needs to start taking raiding feedback rather than saying "you don't pay my subscription" shut up and go play something casual then, there are mechanics that need to be performed, playstyle is one thing, SIMPLY NOT DOING A MECHANIC RIGHT is YOU NOT DOING THE MECHANIC RIGHT.
The PF is not a "you" issue. It's a GAME issue. Putting in content that can't be accomplished through the means provided by the game without pulling your hair out is not a good gameplay experience.
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of body checks here, it's not weather or not everyone executes a mechanic successfully, it's if there are enough people ALIVE to execute it. the first set of towers are not the issue it's people messing up third art of darkness right before it that causes wipes but if not, the snowball effect of raising people and getting them back in position because of the unorthodox arena design. Bramble, stack laser/spread AoE, looming chaos. All of these have potential to wipe if even one person is dead. Especially tanks, this boss has a lot more auto attacks than most fights and if one dies at any point everyone else starts getting picked off. Granted half of these issues come from people making dumb mistakes before vital parts of the fight as opposed to phase 1 where even if you die you can jump tight back in with little to no issue but phase 2 may require you to jump through several hoops many people don't know how to handle.
What you mean “retired” bro you just stopped playing some content don’t act like you’re a military veteran LOL
I'm having a lot more fun with 24 – you can include a lot more people – friends of friends, mashing together statics, and be more communal.
why make a discussion video only to be argumentative & condescending towards people in your comment section?
good luck on the growth of your channel lol
Damn this vid speaks TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE
Approaching 100 clears.
Its good content.
The mechanics are easy EX level, with body checks to stop people getting hard carried.
If you can do your personal mechanics properly, you will get clears.
The only people complaining about Chaotic, are people who after 500-1000 hours of playing the game still don't know what a stack marker or tower is. That is not a problem with the content, that is a problem with the player themselves. They are shit. Period. This content is not made for them.
If you want to enjoy content, you have to put the effort in to actually learn to play the game outside of the MSQ.
My only gripe was the release, since it felt wrong to release something like this on Christmas Eve. I just couldn't be asked to try this by the time I got home (not to mention that the armor honestly didn't interest me)
God these are some of the worst takes I've ever heard. I was gonna write a big rant but it ended up being so long I'm almost certain nobody would read it. As someone who did know what to expect and then the result of the Chatoics release was exactly what I expected – You're not putting that at the feet of the community with your dismissive often strawman cyclical arguments.
It's not gonna have the longevity of Field Operations full stop – and just because you managed to have a good experience doesn't overrule peoples bad experiences. For most people starting your own group… That's still Party Finder. People don't have a social apparatus for 23 other people they can trust to join in… At most 7 which be your static.
You mention the body check thing as if the people complaining about it are talking out of frustration of not being able to solve it themselves, when they are talking about doing it in a PF someone dies then you're back sitting around for 30 minutes as the group breaks apart.
This content makes sense for Japanese Data Centers only… and you had the audacity to tell people to be born Japanese. fuck off.
I am adressing this issue of community by not playing this raid style ( cleared savage this in tier in pf btw )
Finally, someone who agrees with me. In my opinion, COD is one of the best things that ever happened to FFXIV, and I ran it from day 1 in PF. I met people in PF that I got along with and added them as friends to get groups together to reclear the fight. This is the perfect content to get the community to work together. The mechanics are simple but not braindead. This is the midcore content we needed. Does the game have issues? Yes, all games have issues, and it is the issue COD, no. Is the issue lack of casual content? No, those people complaining about that are the same people who haven't grinded out previous relic weapons but will complain theres no relic grind, theyre the same people who never ran eureks or bosja but complain theres no expansion zone. They have plenty to do, but instead of doing older content, they complain.
anything over 8 players is gonna be impossible to prog for us casual players in oce. you have more luck finding 7 players helping you out to prog instead of 23 players. I really enjoy the current savages and extremes.
"24 players doesn't add any value."
8 players doesn't add any value for anyone but tanks and exclusively because of Provoke. Jobs have single target and AoE. There isn't an instance in which a tank won't use AoE on 3+ targets or their cooldowns when taking damage. Or a DPS won't do their rotation, or a healer won't spam rocks and heal when they need to.
"24 players adds a social element." It really doesn't. It's very clear you do not understand what you're talking about. Final Fantasy XIV content is like riding the subway. The act of traveling from one place to the other doesn't change depending on who you ride the subway with. Whatever experience happens while in the subway, for example: Watching a Movie. Has nothing to do with the subway itself and its purpose of getting you from one place to the other.
Just because you manually found a crowd of people to do the content with it doesn't mean you actually played social 'content' or a social 'game'. "Who are you to say that?" Is nowhere near close to enough of an argument let alone criticism of the content itself but of the players.
This meme of 'If you personally feel'– People can feel a certain way about something, but that doesn't make the facts suddenly go away. 8, or 24 players doesn't change how jobs perform or what they do or how combat works. It can't, the game is incompatible with the idea because of it's hyper homogenized Job design and the lack of RPG mechanics.
Another thing about 'entitlement': The problem isn't that people want to have everything and can't get it despite paying the same fee everyone else does. The problem is that they have to wait almost a year for things to do and obtain. So obviously they are going to feel like they want the things in the game available now. You can't blame people for wanting things to do in a game that charges a sub to even log in.
The more I watch this video I have become to understand you aren't even talking about the content itself but how much you hate the players, which is sincerely just about what I'd expect from the XIV community. You're responding to people's criticism, not critiquing the fight yourself.
Feedback from a person doing this fight in a static vs a player doing this purely in PF, on first 3 days when there are 5 different strats, will be very different. I live in EU but my char is on NA so there is a lot of difficulty to find static due time difference. I therefore always PF. This is absolutely PF-able. I cleared very early and it felt like the worst thing I done in my life >.> But then i made some macros to help call out lasers for people and eventually run it over 50 times in PF to get shoes and the cloud mount. The fight by itself is not really difficult.
But its not what I was expecting from a 24 man ally raid, comparing it to BA and DRS is absolute invalid. Its nothing like those contents. Its a 24 man savage raid. In most cases once you cleared savage, there is very minimal discussion besides shittalking between people. Since the expectation is that you should know the plan, know the fight and just go in, no talk, fight, go out. To me thats not an mmo experience.
I will wait out the new exploration zone so that we can get a new BA/ DRS like thing going on because that is what feels most like an mmo experience in this game for me. It gives a little bit of time between bosses, and encourages people to talk about the fight, during almost each fight, regardless if cleared before or not. I dont want to sit in a discord and say nothing on reclears for a raid that has majority of the people being toxic. And thus I am not doing chatoic now that I got all I wanted from it. Its okay to dislike a content. And its okaz to say it out loud that you dislike the content. But it doesnt mean that everyone will dislike it. But my biggest complaint with this was not that its a bad fight, its that its unfair towards casuals to have a new high end content squished in after savage and ultimate, and so now they will be waiting for almost 6-8 months to get to actually do something more than 2 hour of story play and a beast tribe… My complaint is that I dont get why they cannot push out ultimates and casual content like explor zones at the same time… So everyone gets to do something.
i think releasing fru and then chaotic during american thanksgiving then christmas was just super unfortunate timing for me, because i work a full-time job and a part-time job, both of which get even busier during the holidays.
pf was such a toss-up with 24 people that i got like 3 clears and then decided i didn't feel like wasting more of my time struggling to clear content that i was executing perfectly lol. it was a simple adult decision to acknowledge that it's not something i'm willing to pursue right now: very much the "well, this isn't for me anymore" approach
i didn't love coming to the realization that some of this content isn't gonna be for me moving forward, but i never really interpreted this as something wrong with the content itself. not everything is going to be realistically doable for everyone. kinda reminds me of when people were mad about the axolotl mount being a savage drop lol
Normies and furries get bent, GET GOOD! IM TIRED OF DUMBING DOWN THE GAME!
It's amazing content, and made me realize why i raid in the first place. To meet new people and experience new challenges together. To have fun with others and help each other do things we cannot do alone.
Truth be told, I usually just raid older content blind and min ilvl with a group that slowly accumulated over time. Doing actual endgame raiding always felt so miserable to me once you've cleared. No one talks about anything beyond the initial strat setup, they just wanna get their book and be done for the week. That's not why i raid. I don't need the gear if i don't enjoy the fights, and M1S and M2S at least did not make me want to continue any further, so i just didn't do endgame raiding past the initial clears.
AND NOW the Chaotic comes and painfully reminds me what i want the gear for. Reminds me that raiding is actually fun since your party members start talking after a wipe or between lockouts and listings, and I've been enjoying the fight so much I've now cleared it on almost every single role on both Codcar and Aurelia strats all in pf (only missing position is ranged on both strats).
tl;dr "I have a lot of friends and reliable acquaintances of high skill level so this is okay." Cool take. I have an irregular schedule, the only way I can do things is in very short PF bursts and just organizing the party is the worst part. There is nothing wrong with the fight, there is everything wrong with the effort it takes to put together a group. I'm seriously considering just eating the JP lag
I really enjoyed the fight, cleared it in pf and had a good time. I expected the usual pf shenanigans with rage quitting and prog lying and of course that would be excacerbated since its 24 players and not 8 man, so since I had those expectations I was not surprised at all. Good fight in my opinion. In general I think they're moving in the right direction with fight design in Dawntrail.
love the fact i dont need to watch the video to get an understanding of this shit show lol
Hosnestly if 8 player raid is a drama hell 24 will make bald xeno rich with drama reacts 😂 lesgoo