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I've been playing since 1.21 and must say in all those years people have always been kind. At the worst if things didn't go as they planned they just politely left the dungeon.
Ohhh… Now I get it… There was some people that would talk about dropping after some wipes. That… That sucks…
To change wow, the root of the problem comes from dps checking software being allowed in the game. If you don't know you're not maxing dps, nor that your party members aren't either, you have no way of knowing anyone actually sucks, at which point, it really does become about the experience.
The thing is if FF employed the same strategies Blizzard implemented in WoW, where causing wipes is something that makes everybody waste a lot of their time (losing key rewards because of timing mainly) I am sure the toxicity would also happen in FF. The game design amplifies it.
I play Dota which is a really easy game to make mistakes and fuck over your team. I've basically grown the reflex for how to make fun of myself before the rest of my team can start flaming me. Works 9/10 times.
The dungeon thing actually happened to me last night, got in a new dungeon and died several times as the healer which pretty much wiped the group. I kept feeling so bad for wasting people’s time. They just explained what I need to do in a calmly manner and chatted a bit after we finished, no rage, no stress. Like I know this is happening in FFXIV, but actually experiencing it was a whole different thing, I’m glad I switched really
WoW ptsd.
Right now the answer is to find a clique of friends who's interests align with yours in terms of WoW. the LFG experience is a nightmare in all content it's used for and i think that's because Blizzard will waste your time if you fail. THings they could do to make wiping suck less is instead of spawning you at the begining of an instance for a wipe, they just spawn you at the boss to try again. Give a reward based reason for higher level characters to help lower level ones. Give a completion bonus that makes the dungeon worth completing even if it takes an hour and 30 mins. Make it worth it for players and you'll reduce the toxicity.
I love her laugh 🙂
The XIV community is known to be overall friendly, but half of that reputation is simply because nobody is as openly hostile as in WoW – it's both amusing, and depressing, when a videogame is comparable to a toxic relationship
Ok the disband of groups after one wipe is so hilariously true
I got told “great heals” as a newbie healer in a dungeon from a DPS I was rezing after I had just rezzed the rest of the party and I felt like shit lol But they were actually serious and they were like “great job staying alive” and the tank apologised and said they messed something up (idr what I’ve never played tank idk what he was supposed to be doing I’m just a DRG main) We just got fucking swarmed so quick and I panicked hard as I healed and rezzed everyone as fast as I could they literally all died at least once while we cut all the mobs down lol
I was never scared to get kicked from groups, if they wanna waste their time looking for more people thats fine. The worst kick though happened in shadowlands. I had progressed through the entirety of castle Nathria with a group, but just before Sire Denathrius I just got kicked randomly. No reason given, didn't casue a wipe just kicked right before the last boss.
Just thinking out loud here:
The rp is completely gone from WoW, only thing left is the pressure to preform on the highest mathematical level i.e. highest dps and stuff. Pressure makes people irritated.
Hence the resistance to dancing, cat and bunny ears and so on.
the mechanics of WoW make the other players a danger to you – if there's a wipe, that other person "cost you" your mythic key or something, because there's BOTH timer and a key rank to suffer downgrading. Any wipe costs people. There's no incentive to stick together and skill up together. Side note: This situation is even more extreme in the new MMO New World where even regular dungeons need a key to enter, that can take from 1-10 hours to acquire, and is consumed on dungeon entry – so a wipe costs whoever had the key as much as 10 hours of gameplay… Pretty soon WoW will be considered the "nice" MMO by contrast to the toxicity that will create.
The mechanics of FFXIV don't cost you anything other than a few minutes of gameplay that were probably fun anyway… and people in FFXIV often quickly realize that as a result – if you stick with that 'idiot who wiped us', they and you learn together and the result is often a growth in fun, skill, and friends list for everyone.
I honestly thought Zepla simply reacted to this off stream.
I'll never ever forget, In WoW, playing as a tank in a dungeon: FIRST wipe, someone yelled at me: "WHY THE ** WOULD YOU PULL LIKE THAT?".
In FFXIV, playing as a tank in a dungeon: After SEVERAL wipes, party members: "Let's try again!" or "Let's try smaller pulls."
I know what kind of people I'd rather play with.
I'm questioning if I want to continue as healer. How much is it the responsibility of the attackers to avoid damage vs I need to pick the right aoe cure/cure2/benediction (spell)
Only had once bad experience in a FF14 dungeon. I had just come back to FF14 after 6 month gap and had to go in to a dungeon to advance the story. I was a Paladin and this was right after they had changed how the stances worked so I was not clear on the Stances and didn't have it up. We did alright until the we whipped on the second boss to this point not one has said any thing about the stance but not one of the DPS was ripping in to me about it and telling the other DPS and Healer that the need to kick me because I was trolling cause I wasn't running the stance. I expained that I had just come back and that the stances had changed and I was also rusty. The DPS wasn't having any of it at least until the Healer and other DPS told him to hush and apologized and explained the change to the stances to me. With that out of the way and my stance now on we ripped the rest of the dungeon apart. FF14 member I feel are the best!
I can't believe she hadn't seen this one yet haha, so good
i come from a competitive game and i have to say most of the players in ff14 are just so kind, that i become kind with everybody
I thought Zepla already watched this
The talk about toxic player PTSD is so fascinating to me. I would try to convince my friends who are new to the game that the story dungeons are mostly no big deal for experienced MMOers and there's no need to watch the guides. If you die a few times its fine. But I could never convince them. They watched every video guide, and now I wonder if they had this feeling so engrained in them that going into story dungeons blind was unthinkable.
But to be fair I will say no community is perfect. I've definitely been harassed in story fights for making mistakes. That being said I am never afraid to do mainline content blind and learn the fights as I go.
Her comment about hearing how she knows people who had to detoxic themselves from what they had learned in WoW says A LOT about WoW….. Like yeah… being a decent human being does exist. Just not in WoW.
In WoW, every character you meet is a threat. To your kills, toon life, gather targets, etc. Ruthlessness is rewarded, generosity is penalized. In such a game, how can we be surprised that the players become ruthless and fast to judge? The question isn't why there are so many toxic players; the question is why everyone who plays is NOT toxic? All of the WoW ex-streamers, even our funny bunny 🐰, do not remember how horrific people were from the launch of WoW. FFXIV seems to make better game citizens by avoiding so much of the direct player competition. Ultimately though, the question will end up being: how do we make a PvP game component without making nasty people in the process? Nobody seems to have found to secret to that trick. Not even Yoshia-san.
Same, I played WoW 2009-2019 and when I try out FF14 during Stormblood I was so tense and stress out about fucking up I would watch a guide for almost every dungeon I went to. If we wiped because of me I was usually expecting a kick or getting shit about it. I think that feeling didn't go away until after a while of playing SHB.
I picked up healer after years of avoiding the class and I got to say. Eventime I killed a group because I messed up my buttons, I wasn't never scolded! In fact ppl even asked me if they should go slower or pull less mobs! I was a bit weird out but it felt nice!! Their paitions made me try even harder to keep ppl alive and healthy!!!
Captain Grimm is so great. I am happy I got into Ff14 community and found for example Zepla. I like her seeing and reacting to the animations
Was in a group earlier, someone needed MSQ Titania. We wiped, several times, but myself and my BF (heals and tank) stayed until the end, because the random DPS needed it for MSQ and gosh darnit, I was going to give it for him or run out the clock! We could have done like the others, leave group after the first wipe, or the third wipe. We could have voted to abandon it and go again. It's not like we would have waited at all for a trial to pop, but…others where there for me when I needed MSQ runs, so I wanted to be there for this complete random internet RDM stranger. We got it, about 25 minutes before the time ran out, but we did it, and it felt good.
I originally tried FFXIV back in 2014. I got the point where the MSQ was blocked by Sastasha and noped tf out. No way I was going to pug. Too much pug PTSD from WoW.
Fast forward 5 years and friend browbeat me into trying FF again. She swore up and down the pugging would be OK. And it has been, but it probably took me until the ShB dungeons to (mostly) get over the pug anxiety. I've had only one "bad" experience, and it wasn't very bad. One guy started talking smack, and the other two people in the party shut him down. It was amazing.
I don't think WoW can walk back from where it is, as far as toxicity goes. It's too deeply entrenched. A couple thoughts I have about why the WoW community went one way and the FFXIV community went the other:
First, Square actually polices their game. Actions have consequences. Players who can't or won't control themselves get flushed out. Second, WoW has always pitted players against each other: The faction war theme, open world PvP, competition for nodes, general scarcity of resources, competition for gear. Lastly, WoW's dungeons are generally longer, so the time wasted potential is longer. Especially back in the day. An OK run of something like Grim Batol could 2 hours, a bad one, 3! Checkpoints are also few and far between.
Pink shades baby – people in FF14 are the SAME people as everywhere, they are NOT special, they are not Different , they are not bEttEr. They will suck your lifeblood if you let them, they will harass you and not get punished, they even can stalk you even if you blacklist them and remove them from your friendslist. And the customer service is DOgSHit, copy pasta non-statements to actual harassment cases. Keep living in that bubbly illusion more power to ya.
Tonight, we wiped 3 times on Alex final raid in duty roulette. Some submitted an abandon vote. It was turned down and we cleared the next run. All through it we we communicating the mechanics as we proged.
When my husband I 1st started playing wow, we hadn't ran all of the old dungeons b/c we started at the end of Mists. We ran a timewalking dungeon that was from cata never ran it before. We messed up on the mechanics and caused a wipe. The tank called us trash and told us to never have kids. By the way I can't have kids due to some medical issues I have. We reported the man as we had a friend with us as well, we never heard anything back or whether there was any action taken. I assume it was business as usual. I never wanted to run any dungeons or raids at all after that. I cringed every time I got in a group. Wow was so toxic. So I still sometimes feel that way in FFIXV, not because I have ran into that at all. It's like I am almost have PTSD from wow. FFIXV has been awesome and I have not ran into any toxic behavior.. However I have never played any game and ran into the toxic behavior I ran into wow.
"The Current State of WoW" is like a pt 2. It's by Captain Grim as well. It's funny too.
read the Ion Hazzikostas interview and how the game will for sure stay unfixed. he is a good raid designer but so long as he has his head up his nether regions. just watch it burn with capt. grimm
I think the time the WoW players spend in FFXIV will probably help at least a little with it's community should WoW actually do something worthwhile enough to convince them to go back to playing it too. It'd be hard to imagine they wouldn't want to take the mentality back with them. Though whether it'll last for long after that, or spread far and wide enough to make a lasting impact is anyone's guess. But it's something to hope for for them.
4:55 Yep… Took a couple of times before I realised that people aren't being sarcastic a-holes when they say nice things in this game… Thank you to the people that complemented my sprout GBR tanking in Mount Gulg and Amourot :')
another wow refugee here, despite all the dungeons i've done pre-shadowbringers, i've loved the trust system, as it's eased a huge amount of stress i still got from doing dungeons all the way to the end of stormblood and even now in trials. yet the only 2 people i've dared to add to discord that have mained 14 for years and not played wow, they bash on the trust system and i wonder if i'm even allowed to use it now… it's helped me, so why is it bad? sure it's slower but it's at my own pace and the npcs allow me to learn where to go for mechanics
tbh, i've not dared to go for a second job either or even complete a quest to get them, i've yet to join an fc despite having hit 5.4 yesterday (though i've half promised i'd join a certain one after beating the main quest), i don't have a title because i don't think i deserve one of those that everyone has which will make me seem like a loser or something. i'm even still using the grand company chocobo because using main story mounts in my eyes are a recipe for mocking, as well as any of the easily obtained achievement ones
the community in wow was one of the main reasons i am never coming back to wow, as with my therapist we discovered wow is the SOURCE of my depression and shift in personality! but despite being told again and again that 14's community is better, i still don't dare to interact with people, i've not even done a single extreme yet
I remember when I first started the game as a little sprout, I was feeling so nervous at being taken as a sprout that I was removing the sprout leaf everytime I was loggin in.
I did my first sastasha as an ARC, with my friend that brought me to the game as a WHM, I was so nervous during this dungeon that I think I forgot to blink during the whole run xD
A couple days after I joined my first FC, which I ran a good chunk of content with, always being greeted when I was loggin in, doing content like mount farming etc, my inner self was like, what do they want from me, they're acting so weird toward me! it was feeling so unnatural to me for people to act kind in an MMO.
And today, almost 3 years later (In a couples days yay!) I'm doing Ultimates with friends and enjoying the content before Endwalker drop. 🙂
It's the timer on M+. Remove it and actually Balance the dungeons. Make them actually a challenge to over come instead of a speed run. Having the timer be the only real challenge means if you mess up once, the timed run is gone. Then people are frustrated at the time "waste" and money/time put into consumables.
FF14 made me realize that WoW used to be so kind and helpful, stepping away for another game really pulled whatever veil was over my eyes… It's like a damn abusive relationship with promises of change and "it'll get better" gaslighting. FF14 is like a breath of fresh air!
"Then we waste our time together"~ still makes me tear up. I joined a few pub E12s Savage and did so many mistakes but i was really surprised that the pubs just taught me and we tried for 3hrs until called. Even we didnt manage to clear, everyone was patient and bow/thank after calling the run.
In WoW, often times 1st run wipe you get people start calling you names and disbanding. Its just too huge of a difference…
Is it worth playing FF14 on the ps4? I don't onw a PC anymore but really want to try the game
I was literally the only sprout in a group, i had no idea how to fight this boss. I learned the mechanics, for over an hour…. then we beat the boss. They all gave me a commendation. It was a good feeling and i've never looked back.
Hi Zepla and friends. I must have watched Grimm's video about 10 times now and it's 100% true. I'm really enjoying my time in FF and caring less and less about WOW with each passing day. I did the Snowcloak dungeon today for the first time and here's a couple of lines that I had to screenshot.
Zone in.
Me: Hello everyone. First time doing this one.
Player2: It's gonna be great.
Player4: Oh this one it's fun.
End of dungeon.
Me: Thanks everyone!
Player4: Enjoy the rest of the game!
So wholesome. I love it so much.
People really weren't exaggerating when they compared leaving WoW to leaving a toxic/abusive relationship. No game should encourage that kind of environment, or cause players to suffer genuine anxiety.
Literally millions of Wow players have low tier PTSD, because of the simple fact that Blizzard didn’t want to pay for GMs and moderators.
The biggest issue in WOW is the meta and DPS meters.
Since the classes are so out of wack with surton classes it is impossible to find a group. Added to that gets the missuse of DPS meters to asses other peoples playstyle and knowlege.
That creates the toxity.
You're forced to play wow every day for long hours to be competitive. I think that's why people are so hostile. They are trying to get the most amount of things done as quickly as possible so they can log off and do something else that they actually enjoy. And the longer other people make that experience be, the angrier they/we get. The reality that most people don't realize is that they don't wanna be doing the things they are doing in wow. We all feel forced to do it, we all hate it, and we misdirect that hate towards one another. That's how I feel about it anyway. So that issue is fixable. As long as they create a game that people can play just for fun, rather than being on wow copium, those feeling would fade away with time I think. That's just my opinion though. PS: I no longer play wow and I started 14 a week ago or so. Loving it so far.