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🤗 patreon.com/zeplahq
🐦 twitter @xepla
📺 Twitch.tv/zeplahq
🗣 Official Discord server: https://discord.gg/zeplahq
FINAL FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd.
© SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.
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SHB astro is what i want and need.
old astrologian pulled me in with its complexity and as soon as i levelled it up the changes rolled in and i felt like i wasted my time.
I'm curious, cause a lot of people talk about the level of complexity that was in the hand in previous expansions. The more vocal majority that talks about jobs being more complex are ones whom have been with the game for many years.
What about the players whom came into the game at Shadowbringers? The ones whom have never experienced the previous complexity and to them, feel that this is what it is, and they enjoy it? Hearing a lot of people talking about the dumbing down of jobs and how everything should be optimized could be very off-putting. I feel like the push to change jobs, especially healers, to add complexity is favoring a set of people for another set that seem to be fine with it.
What I want to know is what they mean by more complex. Because that can mean a lot of things. Especially for healers. So what you want a hit a four button combo to be able to do a proper heal? Is that the complexity you're talking about? Or do you want them to be able to do more than just throw heals. What is the guidelines of what your talking about. Do you want the job to be harder and more complicated or do you want the job to do more than its doing now? Because for a healer, its job is to heal. Now if you want the WHM to do more than just heal fine, but what do you want it to do in addition to healing?
Savage contents very hard for healers. Every other content is just dps after dps after dps ability then maybe an occasional ogcd heal.
I don't understand people who want jobs to be more complex but are talking about things like Roulettes. Savage and Ultimate exist and they do push you to optimize your job and exploit all the little special things about it. Sure, the jobs could be more complex, but I think the team is shifting the difficulty away from playing the job optimally to playing the content optimally and putting that complexity into raids and ultimates.
this is the problem with simplifying the jobs:
-if MSQ casuals are supposed to master their job why can the MSQ be beaten without doing so?
-if MSQ casuals aren't supposed to master their job why make it easier for them at the expense of the high level players?
their logic contradicts itself, which means the decision was made following an entirely different train of thought.
a train of thought gaming history has seen before e.e
I can only call them discussion Freds now. Thank you Zepla.😂
My say on this when it comes to healers, is to simply add a small damage rotation, much like Warrior has.
This here has no effect on the regular player playing roulettes, as well… Damage is optional in roulettes, and you know it. (Although please do damage, thanks)
But would give healers something more to do given that tanks/healers have so many good healing/mitigation tools that GCD healing barely exists.
If anything, at least give SGE a damage rotation of sorts. It was advertised as the DPS healer, but the only thing it was given to this theme was Kardia. I feel like it didn't hit the mark for the vibe that it originally was advertised as having. This would also make those players that really don't want to see a damage rotation just… Play another class.
I do currently want to say i really like AST for having something to do outside healing, cards are good game design. And having to card all the time turns off some players, much like a damage rotation on SGE would, but again. Those players just don't play AST, and they can also just not play SGE
Zepla, I wish you'd stop fanning Asmongolds Ego. Its kinda pathetic. You should grow a spine. Realize that he doesn't give a fuck about FF and he's just mocking the community and its playerbase.
Me beeing a Scholar Main, i really gotta say that the healing aspect of the Job feels very fleshed out and situationally changeable (with the ability to use ressources in many different ways and spells to change the effect of certain skills).
But i would like to see at least one "big damage"-skill like all the other healers have tho 🙁
For example use 100 fairy-gauge to cast an attack for 380 potency or something.
In comparison to the sages awesome dps skills the scholar seems kind of unfullfilling.
As a healer main I think a small damage rotation would make healers more fun.
You also have to factor in that they intend to keep the game going for at least another 10 years. Things are going to get simplified just for the sake of keeping button bloat down.
been playing dragoon since day 1.
I've liked each expansion more then the last in terms of my jobs gameplay.
Healer has always been a meh job.
Since they made astro a bit less high high and low low I wasn't interested in any healer.
I do think they've streamlined jobs to be a bit easier to play and less annoying.
I do not think any job has been "simplified" and it's an insult to the devs to use such a boring word to describe the thought process that goes into the games design.
If you want to just insult people because you're a whiny bitch then that's fine, but expect to be ignored (like a whiny bitch). I do think there's a point to be made that there are less skills then there used to be for certain jobs or that it would be nice to have another dps rotation for a job but I also think that most jobs have 2 rotations they do (not including aoe rotations which would be 3 obviously) and that seems like more then enough when you're adding in OGCD's.
However, I also notice that some jobs are burning through their rotations quicker and it feels a bit like "I wish I was pressing more buttons", which is something to consider. However it doesn't mean a job is simple, just different. Having more or less buttons doesn't just mean "oh it's easy." That's a very surface level way to look at it. Espeically when the role has multiple jobs to do the same role. I also believe that anyone who wants to critque should , at bare minimum, offer numbers and value changes (or even a new skill all together with numbers/values( instead of being a lazy baby and saying "me no like". Offering well thought out opinions actually helps the devs make a good step in a direction you're wanting them to take. Saying "yes or no" does nothing. If you're too lazy to offer a well thought out opinion then don't bother talking in the first place, as you're wasting your own and the devs time.
As a WHM main, I'm conflicted on job complexity. With how simple it is atm, i can easy deal with players not knowing/ignoring mechanics AND see whats going on in fights to learn mechanics
On the other hand i would love a bit more flavor to the job. Finding that flavor had been hard. One i thought of is a OGCD that consumes a lily to add an additional affect/benefit other spells/OGCDs. Possibly even stack those lilies consumed to strengthen the effect like WARs "Shack it off"
As someone who has played, and raided, since ARR, a lot of the "complexity" people pine for so badly with regards to healers was really just jank. Cleric stance was jank and screwed over anyone with high ping, protect was just silly, everyone has a better stoneskin equivalent shield now. AST's card system in 3.x was boiled down by players to literally just fishing for balance cards; the more complex illusion of choice has just been replaced by a much simpler illusion of choice.
Healer's healing kits are more expansive and varied than they've ever been, they just don't have as many DPS buttons to press.
Here's what many FFXIV players as well as the modern WoW devs have forgotten: content like the daily roulette is clearly designed to incentivize players to consume content that was never intended to be compelling for the entirety of a given expansion. The high rewards are precisely designed to offset the boredom that is inevitably experienced from running the same content day in and day out even though that content was designed specifically to be fun for players on their first run through it. The content in the roulette is by no means easy. It just seems that way when you've been running it several times a week for six months.
The fact is that you can't make healing more interesting without making the content harder. That's why Yoshi-P recommends Ultimates and Savages for healers who want a challenge. Roulette content is already hard enough for its core audience, which, again, is players on their first trek through the MSQ and/or newly leveled 90s (in the case of the expert roulette). You just can't have your cake and eat it too. The path that these players are clamoring for leads to M+ dungeons that are too hard for new players and too boring for most others. A game centered around clearing everything at a breakneck speed so that you can tick a box off your daily chore list feels more like a job than a game.
The thing is, is that it trickles down. Sure Jobs don't NEED to be played at a complex level for casual content, but there will always be those Complex players that will come to expect it in even casual content. It wasn't long ago where people were saying "If you weren't pulling wall to wall in dungeons, you're griefing." Like, I remember the days of Cleric stance, and healers getting bitched at in roulettes if they weren't comfortable using it.
I just wish fights had more variance. I did enough Savage tier to know exactly when/where/how/why to hold a certain CD and it just goes through the paces. Make the mechanics different. It got to the point as Sch that I have CDs down to a science for 1-3 on Savage [Took a hiatus, only got one P4S clear, but got my chest piece and weapon so I don't care anymore] If those fights would have rotating mechanics, I feel a lot of the classes would get completely different play styles and it'd make the game feel entirely fresh.
But it's the fight design itself that's stopping the game from being more complex job wise. They are all mostly scripted events barring like what…8 fights out of the hundred or so there are? Like, I could sit there and tell you the exact time stamps if a pull starts at :50 on the clock for P3S regardless of the damage it has on it. And that was after one week. . .It seems like SE can make hard content, but they can't make repeating hard content, because the majority of the players don't want Hard Content for the sake of it being hard. They want hard content that's easy to repeat.
I wouldn't mind more complex rotations but not if that means more abilities. Some jobs, like WHM I'm ok with but I feel like I don't have enough buttons to do everything a Paladin can do.
I find healer either so boring or so stressful no in between hahah. I’m levelling smn right now and feel so bored cause it’s mostly just mashing one button (lvl 87 rn). I hate just smashing one button which whm often is once you toss a regen on the tank. I love dnc because of the flexibility and somewhat randomness of the procs when it all lines up perfectly it’s just so good.
Ast and Summoner were my 2 mains for healer and dps for a long while, but I agree that it feels like they are just slowly being stripped of the fun (in my opinion) that was optimizing my rotations. I know that a lotta people love the new versions, but I would like to see more complex stuff with new jobs going forwards if possible
Josh Strife Hayes made me realizes that "metas" and "optimization" made games less fun.
i miss royal road, sleeve draw, and old celestial opposition so much 😭
I cant be the only one that wants materia/stats to matter again, right? Like make non damage stats matter again. Give me a desire and reason to seek out piety materia for my gear.
so trashing people who dont think like me is what im suppose to do here right ?
We already had "complex, punishing rotations" and it was a disaster. People think they want that, but they don't.
I will say. I haven’t played NIN since they changed it. And I haven’t gone back since they made adjustments since they messed up. But I miss how playing NIN felt during the twilight days of shadowbringers lol. I’ve since switched to Reaper.
The issue a lot of people neglect to talk about is the design philosophy behind jobs. Most jobs are made with the intention to not be prohibitively complex for someone to play. As mentioned in the video AST was almost there at one point even actively discouraged for newer players. People knee jerk react to simplified kits like its the end of the world and fail to consider that more new players may get to experience the job as a result. You can always engineer complexity through optimization. Do I enjoy when my job gets simplified? Not really no. Am I against it? No. I wish more people could relax when it comes to this.
For context when it comes to healing, I have healed both savage and ultimate content and I do wish for more damaging buttons, however I'm not quite sold on the idea that everything needs to be complex. I think if we had more reason to constantly use our healing buttons we wouldn't be thinking about how simple the kit is overall.
How about keeping all skills in lower level content. This is my #1 cause of falling asleep at the keyboard.
I'm so glad they put in Duty Support so I can solo-grind a healing job for the role quests, my healer anxiety can barely handle it now let alone if they made it more complex lol
I feel people that play healers that complain about complexity might want to try a melee dps job. I have Drg and Rpr 90 and in savage content I am very busy button wise and when I mess up I can't just ogcd my mistake away cause all my ogcd's do is damage and second wind cures 7k hp out of the 61k hp I got and that 90s blood weapon is not gonna save you. If you only play healer or tank to get faster ques your not pushing yourself. try current EX raids savages or Ultimate's. I know they are very scripted and get boring after awhile maybe try as another role.