PVP Brings Toxicity, and Final Fantasy 14 is known for it’s non-toxic environment.
But with Crystalline Conflict being so popular it brings out the worst in people.
Yoshi P is addressing this in a live letter.
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People from WoW can criticize that FF addresses toxicity, call it censoring, etc, but they also don't like it when people leave WoW. People in WoW who love to play with war mode on also whine about people not playing with war mode one – they feel this entitlement to griefing others? What they don't realize though is that both games are a business in the end and FF wants their customers to stick around while WoW has had this attitude (in the past) that nobody is going anywhere so they don't have to do anything. Notice that WoW is also trying to put out some loose community standards as well now? Because they realize some players LIKE this about FF. And you can whine in response to me about it, but it doesn't change this fact (so get over it).
So the people who criticize FF obviously have no business sense. I agree that some of the stuff done (like the sitting/squatting over someone's face) doesn't really bother me either – I expect it, but it's not something I would waste my time doing in a PvP match. Those people get into PvP just to do that stuff and not really to win a match I think.
I truly adore wow brain when it creeps in looking at someone taking a proactive stance on bad behavior in their player base.
1. Pvp is inherently toxic you can't fix it.
2. If you can't handle a bit of toxicity you shouldn't pvp
3. That's not even toxic you're just being a baby
4. Damn weeb game makes everything unfun
if you're legitimately using these arguments YOU are the reason pvp sucks. Those of us with normal functioning healthy personalities don't actively try to shit on people we've bested in a contest, there's something called graceful winning and there are more people who do that than the egocentric nonsense you see people passing off as 'normal' in pvp games.
Do you know why most people consider childish juvenile behavior normal for online games? MOST PVP PLAYERS ARE JUVENILE CHILDREN there's something inherently drawing about fighting other players in a young person's mind the constant need for validation of self and superiority. Do old people play PVP sure but not at the level that it gets toxic and needs to be addressed.
Most FF players do frontlines have a chaotic cluster of a time and move on. The people giving up, spamming emotes, and generally that are being addressed here are the people repeatedly queuing into pvp when they're not having fun and are determined to make it unfun for everyone around them if they can't instantly win.
YES you can curb this behavior make it clear it's not welcome and punish violators, stop, STOP trying to tell people what they can and can't do to improve their experience just because Y thing does it this way does not mean it is the only or correct way to do it, league is a garbage fire why would you EVER use them as a comparison in favorable light?
Keyword is repeatedly, just once or twice most people won't even notice.
I don't think it's the sarcasm that they don't like, it's the spamming.
I havent played ffxiv in a month what in the world happen?
the first two were referring to the situation where you are currently losing in a match, and one of your teammate spam your chats like :
"Good match!"
"Good match!"
"Good match!"
"Good match!"
"Good match!"
"Good match!"
"Good match!"
Keep in mind that every time the chat appears, it has a sound like ding"
I'm not a WoW player and frankly this reaction is pathetic. A game mode without the use of chat and spamming "Good Game" hurts some people's feelings…it's pathetic.
Just to be clear, that doesn't mean I'm fine with all the bad behavior. But this is sadly a poor showing from the FF community showing that the game is composed of snowflakes.
Imagine getting banned for using a "nice job" at a certain point of a match. It's pathetic and you need to understand that it's a competitive mode…only complete normie casuals like losing. The rest of us are trying to rank up and you playing poorly is affecting 4 other people…and it's super selfish. Stay in non ranked casual mode if you're this sensitive.
If this mentality is what Yoshi P wants for FF…then frankly it doesn't deserve to have a healthy PvP mode.
Lol, gotta love when the toxicity from wow tries to seep into other games, nah, that ain't gonna fly.
Stop spamming and acting like an assclown and you'll be fine, it's literally one of the most mmo communities ever.
pvp still isnt fixed in my eyes skill cieling still feels incrediblystupidly high.
PvP is toxic full stop, it ruins MMO's.
My hope is that they keep moderating pvp and they manually start suspending/banninng cheaters
I gotta be honest, what you seem to consider ‘banter’ sounds hella weird dude. Telling someone (especially someone you don’t really know) to take it up the @$$ isn’t banter. That’s Toxic. I agree with a lot of the points you make. I do thing people lump the minority of toxic players with the entire community. But hearing the examples you give honestly makes me wonder if you actually know how to differentiate between genuinely toxic behavior and banter.
I'm on the fence about going AFK. Yeah you could turn it around, but more often there's this one shit that just won't have the L and let everyone else go on to the next match. So just stand around until he gets destroyed and you can get on with your day.
"The first problem" is stupid depending on a particular context not to mention the shitty reward system.
1) If there's a minute and the payload is far away from the delivery point to allow the group to fall back and recover, then I can understand why action is being taken.
2) If there's only 2 people up in your team and the other 3 are down and the other team is all together in the final stretch to reach delivery. May I ask why you expect anyone to be bothered playing at that point. Regardless of the time left, it's more beneficial to players to just give up and begin a new match.
Giving your best is one thing. Getting slaughtered and your team is dis-oriented and unable to coordinate (or even head advise to fall back and regroup) is another.
If you want people to "Strive to do their best even in situations where defeat is imminent" you need to change the reward system. Currently I'm rewarded for simply being there. I get a little extra if I win. If you adjusted the payment to be based on your participating in the battlefield/being in combat, you can get a lot more people participating.
Think of sports. You aren't paid to be there. You're paid to play the game. If the the enemy team has an outrageous amount of points and you have 0 and your team is exhausted, you're still playing because you're paid to engage in the game.
Ironically, this was the primary reason why there was no real emphasis on pvp content in the past with toxicity the primary concern. (i.e. why when the new pvp came out they had already limited the pvp chat and disabled the ability to pre-form groups of friends in CC) Mind you, Yoshi P has been a WoW player for years, so it's not like he has never seen this behavior before and is the reason he doesn't want it in his game.
Conversely, "pvp" has been side content in this game for YEARS without problems. So what is "different" or "changed" now? Just saying… what's changed in the playerbase recently in the last year?
The examples of 'banter' given isn't allowed in PvE, so I have no idea why some people suddenly think it would suddenly be "okay" or 'acceptable' in other parts of the game.
(10 yr WoW veteran and 8 yr FFXIV veteran) I have been a part of BOTH communities for years and I KNOW how each one is in PvP. This ain't WoW, Chief.
I'll admit, I was the pinger once, then I realized I was using the wrong button for my LB, i had mismapped it to the wrong spot. I felt terrible after and fixed it so it didn't happen next round.
Kinda hard to not be salty in PVP when some jobs (WHM especially, RDM and DRG/SAM to a lesser extent) are pretty unbalanced as well as rampant cheating in a lot of ranked CC matches to be completely honest. Other than that, I've only really ran into 1 or 2 people who were clearly in the "toxic" category. I think there is also a degree of people being a tad to sensitive about this stuff, spamming the chat is annoying as fuck but I would not call the misuse of emotes as toxic outside of spamming them.
There is also an underlying discontent with the whole housing situation atm too.
Sorry, man, but I disagree. If you are jaded enough to say that toxicity is just a gamer/competition thing and you don't need to do anything about it then that's fair enough. But don't apply that to others. I see where you're coming from and I certainly won't loose any sleep over players like that but saying that's the way it is is just a bad take, sorry.
This is why i dont line ff. Dont get me wrong, i love the game, but i hate the players. When everything is going smooth is all ok, but at the SECOND, the SECOND something is going south or they feel hurth….the rpg/cassual players cannot take it and start complain or simple go afk.
slandering folks outside of game has an effect in-game and has been going on for a long within the HC raiding community in FFxiv the FFlog nutjobs make it next to impossible for folks who want to do Savage content can't do it because of FFlogs.
hahaha. It's not the ff14 players or even the wow players. It's the general "MMORPG" players who don't commit to any game and just flow to the newest/most popular one. It's weird he doesnt know this. It's the same toxic kids who jumped from wow to new world to lost ark.
Some dude set up a macro to say "Nice job!" every time someone died on the team…. I was like uhh this ass hat isn't even playing well himself
“It’s the equivalent of saying “GG” in League of Legends,” and, Acco, that is still toxicity, no matter how small.
just add mute chat/pings and ban consistent offenders.
simple.
I see it like this, talking crap about a person while friends can be fun and not toxic. Now however there is a limit to that, so you have to read the room sorta thing because some people will go along with it and bottle it up for so long there is going to be a pop and they lose their shit. Now if you do the same making fun of things to a complete stranger, that's harassing and is toxic.
I've had things like being emote slapped, and then there was the tea bagging of ground sitting in game. I wasn't mad, I was kinda impressed they found a way to do that, also both games where people did that, they still lost hard. I also think the more "toxic" players are actually pretty bad at the game so they have to blow their frustrations onto others to try to get a sliver of happiness
Banter serves a very specific purpose in all forms of competitive play, even beyond video games, good banter makes your opponent angry and angry people make mistakes. Banter is a tactic that has been employed since the first competitive sports came to be, to try to remove it is futile. however, messaging someone after the match is over is not banter that is harassment, and that should be moderated.
inbefore YoshiP brings in PvP to everyone, FF14 is a good-boi game. But PvP is always an ink to the water KEKW and he doesnt realize it KEKW
ff14 playerbase cant handle competitive content like pvp
"It's part of being friends…"
The issue isn't banter between friends; it's "banter" between strangers, especially when directly targeted
However understandable the behavior doesn't mean it has to be condoned. I support FFXIV giving warnings and bans for this behavior.
I mean, you can say anything you want to anyone you like still, it just means you're not free of consequence. Want to dodge the timeout? Make sure your banter is funny to read :^)
Yoshi P has every right to be disappointed with FFXIV players. They complain about complexity, then get upset when the devs present a solution. The select majority of FFXIV players are ruining their own game. And they are making up any excuse to pin the blame on any or everything else. RIP.
Gaming Culture is completely filled with toxic behaviors. And just saying that some of these behaviors is ok, especially when it is not acceptable in other situations, merely condones the toxic behavior. So no, saying that Gaming Culture is filled with harassment is ok, is not acceptable.
Defending shitty behavior because you want to behave shitty sounds like
The spamming good match after losing a single fight is just petty and immature.
But the fireworks and squats over a downed enemy player? That's just hilarious!
🤣🤣🤣
Personally I think the teabagging is just a part of gaming culture and is what it is. But any chat spamming is just obnoxious and they should just limit how many times someone can consecutively hit the same chat in a certain time frame. And taking the time to attack someone outside of games or on social media is very pathetic.