Player vs environment aka PvE content is a reflex based puzzle solver. Every encounter has a consistent pattern it follows with some rng mixed in to avoid being too scripted. If you don't like that kind of content then that's ok, but it means MMO raiding isn't for you.
Raid design in XIV is phenomenal for all the reasons you mentioned. I don't think their current model is sustainable for much longer, however… I expect it will continue through into 7.x, but for 8.x I think they're going to have to "Mists of Pandaria" the game, if that analogy makes sense… particularly if they don't walk back the rigid 2-minute model in 7.x.
See, it used to be that DPS rotations weren't pretty much mindless. And I know you said you enjoy doing your DPS rotation, but the problem is… with Endwalker, it's literally all done for you. Everything lines up *automatically*, there are no oddball cooldown timers or abilities that might require you to make an on-the-moment assessment of whether or not you should use it or hold it, etc. Fight begins, everyone vomits literally every button they have into the same 15-20 second window, and then every 120 seconds thereafter they do it again. Some classes are on a 60 second cycle, but since this is all just automatic anyway, it still lines up without any real input being involved. Additionally, they continue to remove or mitigate the importance of positionals on melee classes while simultaneously increasing boss hitbox sizes so that you don't have to put much effort into maintaining uptime (see previous expansions, even Shadowbringers, where boss hitboxes were much smaller and so you had to carefully time things to avoid losing multiple GCDs to a mechanic, etc.) In Shadowbringers, if you fucked up your positionals on Dragoon, you didn't get your Raiden Thrust – a rather significant DPS loss, especially if it happens repeatedly. In Endwalker, you always get your Raiden Thrust, though you might lose a bit of potency if you whiff the positionals. Combined with smaller hitboxes (the "room sized hitbox" started becoming a thing in Eden's Promise… allegedly due to tanks and melee players pitching a fit over losing uptime on E5S and E6S), it meant there was a LOT more going into doing your DPS rotation.
As it stands now in Endwalker, however, I think that raiding in XIV is only fun when you're progging. It's an absolute joy to learn to do the mechanics and see your group go from botching them to running like a well-tuned clock. But once you're at that point… let's say 3-4 clears for a typical group… there's just not much left. You don't really have room to optimize your own personal play. With the introduction of Damage Down for failed mechanics in Eden's Promise, instead of Vulnerability Up (which I think is overall a good change, especially for Party Finder groups), you lose the ability to leverage your group's better gear to let your DPS or tanks get in extra GCDs when normally they would be forced to disengage to avoid an AOE. With positionals being neutered in importance or outright removed, and boss hitboxes being inflated, there's not really as much room to really feel yourself achieve true mastery over the fight's mechanics and pacing. In previous tiers, it was such a rush to have GCD timing and movement timed down to fractions of a second, to get that extra hit in and still avoid the attack, or to avoid the attack and get back into range (and position!) to avoid losing that GCD. Changes to tankbusters and tank gameplay in general meant there was no longer room to optimize fights by positioning the boss differently, there's fewer/no opportunities to leverage better gear by burning your invuln on greeding a mechanic (since now that you have more eHP from gear, you don't "need" that invuln to make the upcoming tankbuster safer, etc), and so on.
Let me be clear, progging fights is still fucking awesome. But reclearing in Endwalker is a lot less enjoyable than it was in Stormblood or Shadowbringers, and if they don't walk back the rigid 2-minute design for 7.x, I'm concerned about how long this setup is sustainable.
I can't speak for WoW, since I haven't played modern WoW since Legion (and even then not much), and I'm not fool enough to try and argue that Wrath of the Lich King raids are remotely as good as XIV raids are.
Depends really, I agree with you on ultimates, they're spectacular and truly epic to perform. However savages do neither engage or excite me nearly as much. It has it's moments, some are better than others, but ultimately the fun in them gets overshadowed by tedium. Not an objective assessment of course, just my personal experience
Really there's nothing that feels quite as good as doing major mechanics cleanly. When the boss finishes his NA2 dance and you look at the party list and you see everyone alive and kicking you get that nice dose of happy brain chemicals.
First
As a 14 raider I hard agree, I think 14 raid design is incredible and always fun
it's way more fun to learn an entirely new/harder dance than do the same dance where everything just hits harder
Does Mr sloth have a discord? Would love to hop into his raids here and there
but where's the addon that tells you to move at?
Player vs environment aka PvE content is a reflex based puzzle solver. Every encounter has a consistent pattern it follows with some rng mixed in to avoid being too scripted. If you don't like that kind of content then that's ok, but it means MMO raiding isn't for you.
Raid design in XIV is phenomenal for all the reasons you mentioned. I don't think their current model is sustainable for much longer, however… I expect it will continue through into 7.x, but for 8.x I think they're going to have to "Mists of Pandaria" the game, if that analogy makes sense… particularly if they don't walk back the rigid 2-minute model in 7.x.
See, it used to be that DPS rotations weren't pretty much mindless. And I know you said you enjoy doing your DPS rotation, but the problem is… with Endwalker, it's literally all done for you. Everything lines up *automatically*, there are no oddball cooldown timers or abilities that might require you to make an on-the-moment assessment of whether or not you should use it or hold it, etc. Fight begins, everyone vomits literally every button they have into the same 15-20 second window, and then every 120 seconds thereafter they do it again. Some classes are on a 60 second cycle, but since this is all just automatic anyway, it still lines up without any real input being involved. Additionally, they continue to remove or mitigate the importance of positionals on melee classes while simultaneously increasing boss hitbox sizes so that you don't have to put much effort into maintaining uptime (see previous expansions, even Shadowbringers, where boss hitboxes were much smaller and so you had to carefully time things to avoid losing multiple GCDs to a mechanic, etc.) In Shadowbringers, if you fucked up your positionals on Dragoon, you didn't get your Raiden Thrust – a rather significant DPS loss, especially if it happens repeatedly. In Endwalker, you always get your Raiden Thrust, though you might lose a bit of potency if you whiff the positionals. Combined with smaller hitboxes (the "room sized hitbox" started becoming a thing in Eden's Promise… allegedly due to tanks and melee players pitching a fit over losing uptime on E5S and E6S), it meant there was a LOT more going into doing your DPS rotation.
As it stands now in Endwalker, however, I think that raiding in XIV is only fun when you're progging. It's an absolute joy to learn to do the mechanics and see your group go from botching them to running like a well-tuned clock. But once you're at that point… let's say 3-4 clears for a typical group… there's just not much left. You don't really have room to optimize your own personal play. With the introduction of Damage Down for failed mechanics in Eden's Promise, instead of Vulnerability Up (which I think is overall a good change, especially for Party Finder groups), you lose the ability to leverage your group's better gear to let your DPS or tanks get in extra GCDs when normally they would be forced to disengage to avoid an AOE. With positionals being neutered in importance or outright removed, and boss hitboxes being inflated, there's not really as much room to really feel yourself achieve true mastery over the fight's mechanics and pacing. In previous tiers, it was such a rush to have GCD timing and movement timed down to fractions of a second, to get that extra hit in and still avoid the attack, or to avoid the attack and get back into range (and position!) to avoid losing that GCD. Changes to tankbusters and tank gameplay in general meant there was no longer room to optimize fights by positioning the boss differently, there's fewer/no opportunities to leverage better gear by burning your invuln on greeding a mechanic (since now that you have more eHP from gear, you don't "need" that invuln to make the upcoming tankbuster safer, etc), and so on.
Let me be clear, progging fights is still fucking awesome. But reclearing in Endwalker is a lot less enjoyable than it was in Stormblood or Shadowbringers, and if they don't walk back the rigid 2-minute design for 7.x, I'm concerned about how long this setup is sustainable.
I can't speak for WoW, since I haven't played modern WoW since Legion (and even then not much), and I'm not fool enough to try and argue that Wrath of the Lich King raids are remotely as good as XIV raids are.
Depends really, I agree with you on ultimates, they're spectacular and truly epic to perform. However savages do neither engage or excite me nearly as much. It has it's moments, some are better than others, but ultimately the fun in them gets overshadowed by tedium. Not an objective assessment of course, just my personal experience
Really there's nothing that feels quite as good as doing major mechanics cleanly.
When the boss finishes his NA2 dance and you look at the party list and you see everyone alive and kicking you get that nice dose of happy brain chemicals.