In my time spent in each of these MMORPG’s I have taken a look at each of these mmorpgs and analyzed what each of them are and their strengths and weaknesses and in this 5 episode series I will compare their combat, story, classes, leveling and of course endgame.
0:00 The Comparison
1:21 FFXIV Combat
4:41 GW2 Combat
10:21 Who Does It Better?
14:40 What to be excited about
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FF14's global cooldown in 2.5 seconds by default, modified by skill/spell speed. Some jobs may have a faster GCD (ex: Monk) and some abilities may have a lower GCD between it and its following ability (Red Mage's first two melee attacks, Sage's Eukrasia, Machinist's Heat Blast/Auto-crossbow, etc…)
For me GW2 feels more reactive while FFXIV feels more like a dance (helps that the music slaps). Coming from a turn based combat ffxiv appeals more to me. Trying the free gw2 right now Im liking the mesmers skills
GW’s combat sounds a lot like Diablo and that’s a hard pass for me. I don’t see how you could build complex encounters with that set up and complex extreme/savage fights are my primary reason for playing an MMO at all.
"Whoever wins, we lose." The Alien vs Predator Prophecies
Yes, the approach in a combat in Guild Wars 2 is incredible vast, sadly that and the free to play are the only attributes that excel, , In this aspect, I think too, GW2 is the best between WOW and FFXIV, just a comment/question, should you talk now about ENDGAME? because FFXIV grows exponentially later and you just barely ended Heavensword. Anyway great video, keep going, next stop Stormblood!!
Hi! I'm a veteran Gw2 player and started FF14 literally this week. I think you may have forgotten to mention a very important detail on the difference in Gw2 combat even between other Gw2 players when it comes to rotations. Since the game doesn't have any ''mana'' per se, and even though some classes have resource management, the biggest resource management and source of damage increase comes from efficiently (big emphasis on efficiently, I'm talking mathematically correct) rotation through cooldowns. As a reference for those who don't know, a casual Gw2 player or newbie who started 5 minutes ago can get gear with literally 5% less stats than the highest tier of gear from a veteran, but when it comes to damage, a casual player in an open world encounter may do 2-10k damage per second while an experienced raider might go to that same fight and do 30,40 even 50k damage per second. Same build, same stats, same class. Just a difference of rotation through cooldowns in an expertly manner. I've enjoyed that part of the min-maxing where it comes to your skill and not your gear stats. I've seen experienced players hop into baby accounts with beginner gear and out-dps everyone. I love that the same class can do such a big difference in damage, we're talking 5 to 10 times more than someone who is built the same way as you. I hope the further I get into FF14 there might be a day where I can see something similar happening here, where skill matters not only in strategy, but in a very big difference in personal damage. But I don't think it's that kind of game, and it's not bad at all! Just my 2 cents that I think are the biggest difference between the two in my opinion. Can't wait for the next videos from this series since this hits too close to home since I just started FF14 from playing Gw2 for over a decade, keep it up man <3
I think judging XIV combat on level 65 is pretty short sighted. considering encounter design is indelibly linked to combat fun and engagement and XIV has learned an excessive amount on how to design enounters since Stormblood.
Who's going to tell him the GCD is not 1.5s
I will not lie, I care about combat in neither. WoW is still best at that. That said, I think both companies made a combat that matches their game well.
FF14 battle is closer to turn based designed around a 2 min meta and 4/8 man team synergy. The combat sings on boss encounters because it’s designed to be used with complex battle mechanics in mind. The downside is it feels simple on solo play and mobs. The first full rotation tends to be later in the game starting around lvl 70. Essentially, there are 5 classes in game where each job is a build of that class. Example for healers, want shield focus? go scholar, want pure healing? Go white mage, want buff focused? Go astrologian. It trades off customizability for ensured viability in end game which made the raiding scene less toxic than usual mmorpgs. The thing i like a lot in this game is how different the playstyle for each class is for the DPS. Physical is all about mobility and positonals, ranged is all about buffs and uptime, and magical is all about dedication to casting positions and perfect timing
I know that crafting is a minor part of MMOs but I do love FFXIV crafting more than GW2 because gw2's is just throw items together and press craft while ffxiv has skills that gives you a chance to craft better quality items. It also feels like a mini game when crafting in ffxiv which is fun.
GW2 combat is what made me fall in love with the game, I've tried a couple of MMOs before and HATED the constant resource management, the lack of movement, and needing to use 9+ abilities just to do one attack, run away, and do it again (sorry, wow ptds coming out) i always enjoyed how gw2 gives me dodges, different abilities based on weapons as well as different animations, and how each class interacts with weapons and abilities. So far my favorite combat in an MMO
I am an ff14 player looking for a 2nd mmo. When i watch gw2 videos i feel like the game is for me. I also heard a really beautiful piece of music from the game, which makes me excited to hear in-game. but when i play it i feel bored and lost and unmotivated. I really want to like this game and i'm stubborn enough to try it for the 4th time this year. i hope it will finally click with me this time around.
GW2 is 1000000% better imo
I've played both games casually, and made it to the endgame in neither, but though GW2's combat may feel more fluid because the engine is better FFXIV's doesn't swap my controls during battle due to the GW2 weapon swapping scheme they have going. When I'm freaking out to heal someone who is about to die I do not like to have hit my panic button on the wrong weapon and miss the chance to save the person. FFXIV's combat may be slower, but it means you do less button mashing and have to be more conscientious about what you're doing at any given time. Beyond that, I think FFXIV generally is better at having new content to play.
In all honesty, I think this comparison cant be done, until you hit 100. You're comparing a maxed out job to a 1/2 leveled job. This video should be redone when you hit 100, in my opinion. To add to this, I don't think you should compare XIV to GW2 at all until you've fully experienced what XIV's endgame has to offer. You're barely touching the tip of the iceburg.
I have ~2k in both games although haven't played FF in about a year. I had almost all jobs to 90 at the time. The one thing I'll say is that FF has lower lows but higher highs. Certain 'moves' in FF I would get an actual buzz from using. Not from getting my rotation down since they're pretty similar, and fairly easily memorised/executed, but specific actions like using Bloodwhetting + Overpower on WAR on a pack of mobs to leech all your health back. Never got old for me. OTOH you then go back to 1/2/3 and the general rotation flow.
OTOH GW2 is more dynamic feeling and I'm almost always engaged (higher APM) and doing stuff that generally doesn't exist in FF, like blocking/reflecting/stealth/stun breaks/res-ing etc in addition to the normal combat flow. That's before even getting into specs and being able to swap stats/utilities out to suit different fights.
GW2 combat is certainly more open to variation and dynamic but not necessarily better. I equally enjoy the more slow, methodical, almost turn-based feel of FF. When I died in FF I knew exactly why. In GW2 I can sometimes go very quickly from 100% to 0 and not have that much of a clue as to why (in part due to the more predictable nature of incoming damage in FF, but also due to the far superior/customisable UI).
That aside, the main reason I stuck with GW2 is I felt that I still had (still do) have so much more to do at the same amount of hours invested. In FF I was running the same expert roulette and beast tribe quests daily and that was about it. In GW I have dozens of metas (I change which I do from week to week), newly into WvW and that's a whole rabbit hole, legendaries, a million collections, map comp etc. In terms of combat I am always seeing new (or at least fresh takes on) builds that I can try, sometimes with weapons I've never used before on that profession.In FF, my WAR/SAM/SGE etc were as they were once I strapped on the best gear/melds. Any theorycrafting or variation effectively ended outside of minor SkS/SpS adjustments.
Needless to say, the story in FF wrecks GW2 (just notice how many comments vets make about how they have fun just watching you play through the story). I'm not really one for story but I didn't skip a single cutscene until half way through EW when it lost me a bit. That is a bit of double-edged sword too in that the story is a large part of the FF experience and once cleared it left a big gap for me. Even ignoring 95% of story content in GW I don't feel as if I lost out or am just biding time until the next story patch rolls around.
This is like comparing advanced warfare to cavemen with sticks.
Sorry any combat that lacks a dedicated healer loses for me.
I often falling asleep doing dungeons in FFXIV with any job — after certain number of rotations, it becomes monotonous and boring. The new Viper job is akin to GW2 in terms of active combat and kept me awake the whole encounter. This is the main reason why I don't have a Blackmage — I fall asleep every other spell cast — the casting time is just too slow. In GW2, the fact that I have to dodge certain attacks keeps me engage and awake.
I must echo what others have said. Both encounter design and job design are vastly different at end game. It really picks up in Stormblood and onward.
Personal preference, but I prefer FFXIV combat. GW2 gives you many more choices (for customization, etc) though, which I would love to see in FFXIV, but we won't.
When I played guild wars 2 for a bit the combat didn't really click for me. Admittedly I didn't get very far, but it never felt more meaningful than hit the most buttons, and the enemy dies. XIV's stricter rotations gave the sense that I was always at least making progress. Every new skill was a new button to slot into my rotation, and now that I am at end game it's a beautiful mess of small optimizations that all feel intentional.
FF14's combat feels way too slow and
repetitive for me. Doing your rotation over and over again gets boring after a while. Im GW2 I feel like you have to be more reactive to whats happening. Theres just more freedom in what you can do. The best thing about FF14's combat, in my opinion, is how balanced it is. Theyre able to create amazing encounters because of how dialed in each class is.
I think this section of the series needs to be revisited at 100. Some, if not all, of the jobs in XIV drastically change at 80, 90 or 100.
I'll give the latest job as an example. Pictomancer is fun to play and does high damage pre-100 but the rotation sometimes feel clunky when you're trying to trigger Rainbow Bright for a free instant-cast line nuke. Then you unlock Star Prism at 100 and suddenly the entire Job clicks together and your whole opener, burst rotation and finishers roll together smooth as silk. The difference a single skill makes to the whole dance.
Ah, can't wait for the endgame comparison from a guy not out of free trial content yet!
GW2 feels more like a street fight, whereas FF14 feels like a choreographed dance. Both have their ups and downs, tho I highly recommend redoing this topic once you reach the end of Endwalker at least
As you're still at a point where FF14's encounter design, which is a huge part of what makes combat in a MMO so good, will only get better.
I'm sure these comments will be civil and unbiased. Surely.
I think they scratch different itches. Fast paced combat is good! But the slower APM of some FFXIV jobs serve to make it a little bit more accessible, and more like a rhythm game. (And then some jobs, like machinest, have APM that land right up there with other MMOs at level 100. Someone else in the house said my keyboard sounds like I'm exploding things once.
FF14 = zzzzzzz
I honestly think videos like this do a poor judgement as XIV has gone though changes. Every class you play has gone though 3 different changes, some minor and others more extensive.
Now, regarding combat in XIV – jobs do have massive changes on higher levels.
Global cooldown in FFXIV is generally around 2,5 seconds, though it heavily depends on job you're playing – for example, monk has extremely small GCD at around 1.8 seconds, while Paladin is fairly slow at 2.5
In addition different jobs at different levels have different resources. For example Gunbreaker has only one resource – cartridges, while Dark Knight has to consider MP, Darkside, Blackblood and Esteem during burst phase and I am not even looking at the monstrosity that is Black Mage's Enochian – I am afraid of no man, but that thing… it scares me.
Overall on higher levels, with all things considered, combat is more about positioning and weaving OGCDs into your GCDs
In addition – and this is important – combat in FF is tied to encounter design and thing is, starting with Stormblood they have made significant changes to fight design – combat became a bit more tight, markers became clearer, mechanics started relying less on "look at orange markers" and more on "pay attention at what is going on" etc. I would say that looking at encounter design should probably be video somewhere mid shadowbringers at the very least since there main formula of current combat design was well established. Better – somewhere closer to Endwalker (around ShB Raids in my opinion)
Small note – combat in FF can feel on a slow side until you go through some fast-paced encounters. I only heard of TEA, as I will take on it at some point in the future (I want that shiny gunblade!) but it can be VERY fast!
I dont think GW2 is so much different… I used to raid and there are specific rotations for your class in different situations to get the most out of it. Also, the autohit in GW2, where you have up to three abilities that rotate on their own in combat, is basically the 1-2-3 combo in FF14. At least thats what came to my mind first thing when I though about comparing the two
I like GW2s idea with the combo fields, what I didnt like was that they and the buffs applyed make for very inflexible group settings, for raiding as well as some world bosses. I remember the time when we had to check who brought which buff to which fight, how many gearsets we needed, which sigils, and so on, just to ensure we had the buffs covered. Group composition felt really rigit to me. In FF14, jobs are more designed for their indiviual role and less how they interact with one another (there are no combo-fields where you sort of interact with your battle environment). The only limitation you have with group composition is having all 4 dps roles for faster LB generation – and even that is not really necessary unless you're going for min-maxing…
Changing weapons in GW2 fundamentally changes your playstyle and the feel of your class – absolutely, no arguments there. However, FF14 has the same feature: changing your job. You have sofar unlocked only two jobs, dragoon and dark knight, but there are 15 more for you to explore on the free trial. Imagine 17 playstyles and roles on your elementalist. And thats just the free trial, we have 21 jobs atm. And depending on whether you're a "the glass is half full or empty" guy, they all play and feel different. Which is just to say: you're right when you say, FF14 has slower combat in general (unless you take the +-20 sec burst window, where you turn into a tickle monster on ecstasy), but the gcd changes depending on your job: Ninja, monk and viper are or can be incredibly fast, and a caster job like summoner has so many instant casts you can run in circles while throwing out your big hitters, weaving your ogcd's. Which is to say: yes, combat is slower, but not necessarily
Which brings me to my next point, that many have already mentioned: I disagree where your experience with FF14 is concerned. You have a feel for both your jobs and can evaluate whether or not you like that feel of gameplay, but you cant compare that to the vast experience you have with GW2. Its like being a Olympic high jump champion and then try your hand at archery, comparing the two. There is a gap in skill, expectation, experience, knowledge, routine… HW is good, but gameplay-wise nowhere near were job- and gamedesign are now, not only are the jobs incomplete, dungeons and raids, too, are fundamentally different.
All that beig said, still a fun video
Archeage of course
. But In all seriousness I main ffxiv. You’re going to hear wait until 80. Then wait until 90. Now it’s wait until 100. Idk if I would play it for the combat. I fall asleep in dungeons. The hard raids and trial is what keeps me playing. Gw2 takes it in my opinion.
Apples vs Grapes. You don't go to these two games for the same type of combat experience.
as a long time FF14 fan that hasn't touched GW2 in years: Guild Wars 2 better combat
Both game are incredible, and give me lots of precious memories.
I come to GW2 first, while the style and solo action-oriented design is so satisfying in the interactive environment, and players are designed to help each other here and there. The base game encourage you to explore everything. Same in the combat, throughout lots of changes bewteen expansions, it is very open for player to build your favorites to suit your desire. Open map events ( and some broken quite often, lol) make the game world active. Where people grouped up for meta-events, the run are epic (as well as chaotic, lol). If you want to sink some hours in and only in the game world, there is hardly better option.
Then I walked in FFXIV after our first epic arc story line ends, where I can't enjoy much end games due to unstable up times. It was more like turn based nostalgic style in the beginning with no much plots in the first place, but systems grow very abundant while the mainstory progressed, one of the most interesting part showed up in term of combat. The PUG and gear progression system with daily bonus design are very caring for all players, make sure old contents don't die, and everyone get rewards to their own need. It's more like a tour, where newcomers guided by vets to walkthrough, learn the danger and beauty of the land. Mostly we don't speak or type much, but to hear, feel and think ( or see ), learn from others and some trial and errors. I enjoy much like how other jobs try to play, some cool play style we can use, and how ppl try to coordinate each other without even a word. You can always pop-up after work and take some refresh like 15-30 mins, then do some seasonal events for mounts, emote, skin or decoratives. From extremely casual to extremely focus, wide variety.
awesome idea for a compare of the game i really like both games and played dd14 way way more but i think gw2 has better combat its much more action and every class can be played diffrent not the same, thats my biggest – point for ff14, every class is the same.
gw2 is clearly superior in terms of combat. ffxiv combat system is too formulaic, slow and doesnt feel responsive at all. you really dont need to be lvl 100 to see that. It will get better but the problems still remain lets just be honest here.
Im playing since Stormblood and have like 7kish hours in FFXIV and like 1kish hours in gw2
FF14 is insanely cluttered and bloated, i have never tried it because of it…. U literally dont see what is happening, same with POE.
Can't wait to read through the dumpster fire that the comment section will be.
Dunno why people in the comments keep saying this is unfair. Its not.
I've played 6 or so classes to 90 in XIV and the main thing that changes combat wise, is having a few extra tools to add to your rotation. The boss and encounter design in general however, does change quite a bit post Stormblood but thats not really part of your class combat. If I am to be frank, by Lv 45 XIV combat is already solidified, as you'll have access to the typical rotate and weave mechanics that will continue to re-appear as expansions come and go.
FFXIV's combat doesn't change drastically from 50-90.
It's more flashy but it's just the same just more buttons.
Encounters are just do rotation and stay ayaw from red circle
GW2 combat is leagues better
Oddly enough I do like FFXIV PVP content
FFXIV by miles has the better combat.
dont trying to be FFXIV superfan, but yeah as other comments says, you are 64lvl, the combat on 100 lvl really is different, better
i see comment section keeps saying "level 100" or "higher level" for ffxiv, you must understand a new player starts with level 1, if everyone has to clench their teeth to bear what "not fun for them" for whole till higher level.
Dont get me wrong, i love both games and i play both games, first impression needs to be good for video games abd this is why many of xiv people early experience comes with "combat is slow"
in my opinion, early combat for xiv could be more engaging, i bet many of us on leveling roulette when we got sastasha, we just decided to watch something on second monitor or talks with someone in linkshell/fc/cwls
interesting video, im surprised you havent brought up positionals, but i would have to add a few things, the GCD in ff14 is 2.5 seconds. you can make this shorter with a stat called Skill Speed/Spell Speed based off if the skill used is magic base/physical based. and just to add it because everyone else is. jobs change pretty drastically every 10 levels when you unlock the next "core" identity of the job. i dont think at lvl 65 as a drg you have unlocked "life of the dragon" or stardiver, nastron, wyrmwind thrust, rise of the dragon or even upgraded combo parts. while i'll agree that the "core" of the job may be pretty similar, 1-2–3-4-5 part combo then a slightly different 1-2-3-4-5 part combo with alternativing ogcds between button presses, especially once you unlock life of the dragon and you're stacking dragon eyes and first minds focus.
oh and to take a deeper dive into skill speed. yes the base gcd for 14 is 2.5, but some jobs have initate traits that make it faster. my monk is currently sitting at a base gcd of 1.97, while my samurai, once i get my self buffs up and running is down to a 2.15. looking at the healers, the base gcd is 2.5 but spell speed is a very important stat for my scholar, so my gcd there is 2.38. while we dont customize our abilties, we do customize our stats (thou 99.999% of the midcore + player base just follows the meta build, like in wow)
One thing I prefer with gw2 combat is that the combat feels more "real" As in: what you see is what's happening. Turn around mid swing? you miss because your weapon didn't hit. Boss moves out of your animation? miss. Using dodges and blocks just when a swing is about to hit you. Don't stand in the huge explosion that the circle is warning about.
The combat in ffxiv don't feel as "real" to me because the only thing that matters is if you pressed the button in range (most noticeable on melee classes). You can essentially kill a boss while facing the opposite direction jumping around while your character is swinging at nothing. Also the "walking into the giant explosion is fine as long as you didn't stay in the warning circle". Oh so I'm avoiding the Circle, not the actual attack that is happening. What you see isn't what's happening.