This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I feel like many players leave the game over a few bad dungeon runs. How can we as a community improve in this area? Honestly, I feel like we do a really good job already, but there’s always more room for improvement.
Reddit thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/u1cow2/please_stop_overpulling_on_sprout_tanks/
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Been gaming since the mid 80's, playing MMO's since Star Wars Galaxies was new. Also a healer main since the early days of SWTOR. I've always gone at the pace of the tank if I'm healing or DPS. If I tank, I ask what the party is comfortable with, and go from there. I've never been the kind of player, who adds stress to other people. ESPECIALLY, people I do not know. It's called being an adult, and being respectful to others' limits, skill wise, or socially.
I've been playing FFXIV since 2015. My main has all but one class at 90, my second main has at least 11 classes at 70+. Fortunately I haven't seen a lot of the toxic behavior talked about here. When I do see it, I stand up for the sprouts, and am all for kicking people who are causing problems for the party.
As a healer main, I'm okay with letting a dps die if they purposefully pull adds beyond the tank's pace. Have been for over a decade, and I will stick with it until the day I die. I don't believe it's being petty. I believe it's making a conscious decision, to not reward bad behavior. I refuse to reward people for being assholes, and am perfectly okay with treating them with the same lack of respect they treat others.
When I usually tank If I don't get a response I just pull, if I die I would just tone it down. But if they do talk I would just ask them if they want me to pull big packs or not. When I started this game as a tank I fuck up on some dungeons but instead of the people complaining about it they just gave me pointers which help out alot
I actually started as a tank when I first started playing, and I was extremely close to changing to a different class because a healer pulled too many enemies for me and got me killed multiple times. Very glad I stuck with tanking, but it was a very bad first experience all things considering.
Having tanked a bit with a 71 warrior and a 66 dark knight, can really feel the anxiety, as its pretty stressful, but im pretty much a healer main, and always just try to see what the tank does first in the dungeon, and just communicate what we can do better afterwards. Wipes can suck, but its not the end of the world, and healers and tanks can be pretty overwhelming roles, but it takes practice to nail it down, and most people wont blame you for mistakes. I know ive died in raids to really stupid shit hordes of times, but letting people know you're new to a role or content, etc. and they'll generally help ya out, especially if you're willing to learn. So it can be a real nail biter, but again communication is very important, especially for tanks and healers.
If they want to pull, let them tank.
There are overconfident healers who think that the tank will never die because they're too good at healing. But then get shocked when the tank forgets to mitigate and get overwhelmed.
Good thing fucking AI party members exist for low level content.
As a Paladin who is still a sprout, I’ve experienced a lot of pressure from more experienced players.
The other way around with tanks who run forward and the healer can’t keep up with that.
Of course you should tell the dps hey you can’t pull because of several reasons as we all know. Holminster is one of those dungeons where when the tank has not his cd’s it can get spicy for a healer.
As a SCH main I can mitigate practical everything, but with WHM now I had to rethink something especially with all the nice mitigation WHM has now ^^
Oh and a little add on… I like you attitude it’s comforting. As someone who likes ppl who say it right and straight out. Thanks for the video.
Overpulling can make you a better tank player in no time you gotta have to accept the challenge they give you and learn from it to be better next time
when i started the game as a marauder in January i had a bard pulling more mobs i could handle in the second dungeon. i asked him to stop pulling so much and he said "pull more" i said it made it very hard for me as i am new and havent gotten used to the controls yet and he went on pulling more mobs jumping around trying to make me sweat. it made me not want to play the game anymore, it just felt so toxic but then i joined a very friendly FC and everyone was really nice there. if i had not join that FC i dont think i would still play the game. please be nice everyone <3
As a healer main, I just let the tank pull as much as they are comfortable (otherwise just asking for smaller pulls if healing becomes harder to maintain).
I’m leveling a sprout tank right now and had a sage pulling when the pulls were not big enough. I didn’t like it but I just started pulling more
I wanted to try tanking so I made an alt thinking I'd be able to control the pace and the healer pulled the first mob while I was waiting for the new person to watch the cutscene -_-;;
It's not common, but one of my earliest tanking experiences involved a WHM- without a word- using Rescue to yank me around into mobs. I was new enough to be confused- I'd never played WHM and wasn't aware they could do that.
And I've seen other healers do stuff like this- though again: not common. Type A personalities and self-importance, I gather. "I'm a healer something something better things to do with my time than wait, something something."
Also I've had the opposite experience when talking to groups. Most won't start by talking, but if I speak, most will respond. I'm guessing that's a server/DC population thing.
i am still a sprute but i will take point when i am not a tank, because i am confident i will try to keep distance and not agrrro stuff, and worse case, i only pull 1 group, just say in chat "hi, first time on this" and let them basicly figure things out and where to go and such.
i was so lost in some dungeons running them with squadrons (grad company AI befor trusts) because i was used to just "hey, here is a tank, mindlessly follow and dont notice the mechnics and stuff they doing befor you can figure out what happend"
I've had the healer do that to me, though I wasn't a sprout tank. It was my first time in the optional EW dungeons though, and I wanted to take my time and enjoy the experience rather than just plow through it, so after the first few pulls of the healer dragging the mobs onto me, I just left.
I've been playing on the JP servers, mostly cause my friends are there, and I'm a tank main. My only issue I've had so far is one sprout tank (and I still consider myself a sprout tank) accidentally turned off or never turned on their tank stance. I just used chat to let them know.
Ever since I started leveling up Ninja with dungeons, I realized how much I wanna hit my ranged attack first before the tank, and I'm usually around the front or sometimes in front of the tank. It's just a tank habit I developed. Of course if I do accidentally pull as DPS, I try to bring that mob to my tank so they can AOE grab that mob.
I mostly see healers do it aswell when I am tanking.
Sometimes when I see Sprouts in the group and they are not doing that much aoe damage or take a alot of damage themself in pulls (or even dying), I want to take it slow with the pulls and I had it 2 times now that the Healer even sprints forward and rescues me into the next enemy group.
I mean generally, if someone sees the group is good and can easily handle the situation, I don't mind pulling enemies as a DPS or Healer, because in those groups everyone just goes ham on the dungeon anyway, but as soon as there are Sprouts in the group or someone that obviously is new to the dungeon or struggling a bit, I always take it slower.
as a healer its hard for me to determine whether its my fault or the tank fault or not.
i know leveling white mage compared to scholar was so much worse because you have so much less options.
and some tanks would go ballistic with my low level gear.
white mage doesnt have any fast heals and i feel like people forget that i dont get afflatus Solace until lv52 compared to lustrate at lv45 as scholar with whispering dawn with fairy.
white mage does have Benediction for emergency use at lv50 and regen isnt good to use for trash mobs because it can pull aggro.
so a lot of the time i have to use medica II if i have it just to keep tank alive in early content .
earlier today i was playing and this guy was pulling a lot in a lv35 dungeon getting destroyed and i could only do so much to keep him alive.
another issue is when the tank moves out of range at last minute because again i think they forget we cant move and cast at same time and sometimes you think they are stopping but they keep going.
now days i can still keep the tank alive now that i have high enough gear. but even so i still feel like they forget the difference between early healers.
I'm a sprout tank, been playing for a couple months now and never really had any issues with being "bullied". At first, I was super nervous about the responsibility and slowing people down I wouldn't even watch my cutscenes lol So, before going into a dungeon I watched a guide and also mentioned to people it's my first time, and everyone was super nice for the most part! There were a few times where more experienced party members would run ahead of me and it made me feel a little bad at first, but I took it as my queue to pull more, so I just tried to outrun them afterwards and it was fine xD Now I just watch a guide before going in so I know what to expect and don't even bother mentioning it's my first time 'cause I'm not nervous about tanking anymore. That said, it is vexing when you ask people if they know the mechanics to a fight and no one replies only to get wiped later 'cause no one knew but didn't wanna say it for some reason.
had a scholar do this to me, ima sprout btw it was a bit weird but we managed.
I agree with the post, for the most part, but the message I'd wanna impart to Sprout Tanks is: There is a cure to Tanxiety, and that cure is wall to wall.
Fr, if you can survive one wall to wall, you can survive all of them. It's a scary step to take, and you might wipe, but 99% of the time people will understand.
When I was learning tank as a second class, I mentioned at the start of the run that I was new to tanking. The healer pulled aggro and when I asked to slow down, they used rescue to pull me into the pack of enemies to clear faster. They ignored everyone's request to stop.
I can kinda understand from the healer's POV dungeon depending(doesn't say which one), while I've never done it myself on a sprout tank, I have tanked Satasha as my scholar before(tank bailed on us and the dps that was party lead said they couldn't figure out how to open the part up, and wouldn't listen to any explanation, so I tanked on scholar), scholar at least needs no help and can solo the first few dungeons without any risk, this isn't entirely the player's fault, the super early dungeons are just far too easy to just bypass for a healer. Is it fair to the tank, nope, of course not, but the dungeons themselves could do with a redesign, make them at least dangerous to a solo healer.
Only time I have beef with tank sprouts is some of them play tank to have some sortof of weird god complex like they will pull 1 mob at a time (not the group but just 1) and I will tell them to pull them more etc but all he does is just yell "I'm tank you got no say in this" and me and my friend just give up and pull more because it was just holding the game hostage at this point.
I've only had one encounter like this, it was quite recently and technically I'm a sprout tank, as while I've max'd out a healer and a dps most of my tanks are sitting around 40. I was running Stone Vigil as DK, and the healer could not keep my up in anything bigger than a single pull when he blamed me for not using cooldowns. I was maybe not doing them perfectly(juggling argo and keeping an eye on all enemies and keeping perfect watch of cd's a little beyond me rn) but they were still being used and I still dropped whenever I tried a bigger pull. Thankfully the other dps (the 2nd dps was a fc friend of mine) didn't try pulling other mobs. So we just had a slower run to just get it over and done with lol. Litterally got stone vigil on the next roulette and everything went fine. Maybe it's just a thing in our small fc but whenever we encounter a sprout (or role-baby as we've taken to calling people who have got high level in another role but not current role) we tend to take it slower, keep an eye on them and wait for the cutscene. I didn't think being civil was that hard.
as a healer, i sometimes go over and pull before the tanks but only in max level dungeons, like when ur tank is a mentor and/or has every tanks max level and goes to mono pull I'm just bored lmao
but ye if ever I'm doing roulette and the tank is a sprout I'll tell them "you can pull big if u want"
People need to stop with the “it’s the tank’s job to pull”. Do your job then…
There's kinda two facets to this.
A genuine sprout tank, someone who's truly new to FFXIV, should generally be a bit more cautious in their pulls. They likely won't have the gear necessary to handle the bigger pulls, and likely won't know what to expect with the trash pulls.
A sprout that's an alt, however, will generally know their limitations. So if this sprout is pulling wall to wall, it's probably out of experience with the role and content.
Either way, there's no reason to get mad if the group wipes. This is a very WOW mentality, getting mad over a wipe. In my 5+ years of playing FFXIV, I've quit a group less than 10 times. And each one of those was after 10+ wipes, when it was clear it just wasn't going to happen. People just need more patience.
As a new tank if anyone pulls ahead of me I just stop moving. Problem solved. Let the tank determine the pace and any dungeon run will go smoother. Everyone has different levels of exp playing certain jobs so a little bit of patience goes a long way. After a few dungeons you can get to gauge group your running with and adjust accordingly.
i think people just forget what it's like to tank as a sprout, and i only really see the kind of behavior from the reddit post in lower-level dungeons like Sastasha through Aurum Vale (except Stone Vigil for some reason). and i definitely agree that communication with the rest of the party certainly does help matters for the better
however, i have personally gone through a similar kind of experience several times as a sprout healer, when the rest of the very much mentor and/or non-sprout party refused to slow down or pull less even though i asked them to multiple times. it was only three or four runs out of maybe 7, but they were so bad that it's the reason i refuse to bring healer into duties anymore unless it's with NPCs.