I couldn’t help myself after reading some of these comments. So I threw this together really fast to keep this conversation goin! Thank you all for watching and I promise to get back to editing Lore videos I promise. haha
#ffxiv #lore #jobs
source
I couldn’t help myself after reading some of these comments. So I threw this together really fast to keep this conversation goin! Thank you all for watching and I promise to get back to editing Lore videos I promise. haha
#ffxiv #lore #jobs
source
As long as they don’t keep simplifying and homogenizing I’ll be happy. I say this as someone who does savage and ultimate: To hell with balance. I want jobs to be completely unique and diverse. When I swap tanks, I want to feel like the way I mitigate and how I deal damage is totally different. When I play healers, I want to feel like I’m healing in completely unique ways and have an interesting set of damage spells at my disposal. Not just 4 flavors of glare/dia. DPS overall are okay. Summoner is way too simple, bard is the worst it’s ever been and I miss kaiten but overall they aren’t terrible. A big problem with jobs (crit and 2 min meta aside) is that there’s almost no way to mess up unless you’re just not pressing buttons or doing combos. Not being able to fail at something doesn’t feel satiating bc well, you can’t fail. And unless you just refuse to press buttons, you can’t mess up almost any job right now.
The Musketeer's Guild's been sharing its roof with Marauder all these years since some time in 1.0. Why don't we get a Musket class that could play something like a Red Mage or something, with a bayonet charge for melee cycle
Also, for the love of all that is holy, make the RDM's foci an equippable item that you can unequip and just get a pure melee rapier class. I absolutely adore rapiers, but for some reason, Red Mage has got to be the lamest, most boring job in my personal opinion
A long comment but stick with me:
Another big issue with the focus on the 2-Minute Meta is it has homogenized a lot of jobs. At this point Paladin, Dark Knight, Gunbreaker, Warrior, etc. might as well just be called the "Tank" Job and the weapon you equip different glams. They function nigh-identically outside of a few quirks or potency numbers, a 3 ability combo, a few mitigations, a gap closer, some damaging oGCDs, a ranged attack for pulls, and an invulnerability spell. Developer-wise I get it, this was done largely because prior to this homogenization certain classes were so useless in PVE it became a meme (Bard is one I remember seeing memed on quite a bit), but honestly I think that's fine, because it opens avenues for different strategies or places for jobs that are usually underwhelming to shine.
But it doesn't have to be this way, each job could emphasize its identity further. Make Paladin all about shields and bodyblocks, make Warrior a self-sustain monster ala Doomguy on a rampage, make Gunbreaker an all-in beast (and give them usage for cartridges, seriously), and make Dark Knight a proper spellsword augmenting their blades with the dark energies of their conviction for different effects on their 1-2-3 and auto attacks.
I wanted to max all the jobs for glamouring and completion sake (also because 7.0 is gonna make it even harder) but honestly I'm having a hard time justifying it when most feel like the same gameplay under a different VFX coat of paint.
I know in some parts of the XIV community even comparing the two is a sin but I'd like to compare WoW tanks (tanking is my main role if you couldn't tell) for a second:
-Protection Warrior is the closest to FFXIV tanking, heavy emphasis on mitigations and being a big armory boi. Your classic MMO tank.
-Guardian Druid doesn't have as much in the way of mitigations but makes up for it by being an absolute UNIT with the largest health pool in the entire game letting them take harder hits and just shrug it off.
-Protection Paladin is similar to Prot. Warrior but with the spin of less direct mitigation for more AOE efficiency and threat (aka enmity in FFXIV) generation via heavy spells and magic damage.
-Blood Death Knights have the best mitigations against magic damage and sustain their threat via DoT (Damage over Time) abilities.
-Brewmaster Monks actually have armor and health pools comparable to DPS classes, but their tankiness is done via having a high Evasion stat, meaning they dodge most of the hits swung at them instead of soaking it but thusly the ones that do hit them are pretty scary.
While yes there have been times where certain tanks were better than others (Vanilla WoW saw almost nothing but Protection Warriors as tanks), I think having distinct flavor and playstyle is a worthy tradeoff imo. And I'd love to see FFXIV perhaps take a similar route in the future. Not everything needs to be competitively viable, this isn't Fortnite, everything just needs to be fun and I don't think homogenizing the jobs is a good way to achieve that fun.
Ok, so we're just gonna act like engine blade tank isn't a job in Final Fantasy as a whole. Honey so many ways to incorporate that into Garlamald. Give me an engine blade tank. A full area of Garliams that can teach it to us too. We already have Fun blade. Why not engine blade. I'm sure the quest can even incorporate Cid somehow. Twelve knows he's been nowhere for awhile now.
Can I ask about a gambler spellcaster that stacks cards for effects and uses dice for a modifier.
Or Universalist a jack of all job.
I want to see a specific class SongstressPreformer a healing/ Buff class that pumps out a ton of AOE heals and can target players with a song buff to raise specific stats while singing.
For ranged physical dps, gambler. Sure it's card based but make it debuffs on the enemy.
Healer can be green mage. Time magic and it reverses time to heal damage.
I'm also down for whip swords for physical melee dps
the 2minute meta is not meant for us. it's meant to simplify designing the next 10 jobs. having the same rotations on all jobs makes it incredibly easy to create new ones.
[(123 resource A generator, DoT, resource spender, 123 resource AB generator)*3, buff, capstone attack(s)] this in 2 minutes with a set in stone potency per 2 minute rotation. add a couple dashes and 3 mitigations
this is basically the meta, this is the blueprint for all DPS classes. once you know this all you have to do is tweak a little here and there, try to make it /look/ different, you want the job to feel faster? add more ogcds. you want it to feel stronger? make the capstone attack have a big bombastic animation and fx.
the job identity is no longer in how each job plays but how they look and feel, you have to remember when you make a new job it's not a done deal, you have to keep adding skills to it every 2 years. If each job was too individual in how they played then encounter design would be MUCH harder, so would keeping them in line with every other job on a balance level.
I know some people are annoyed at this but you need to look at it from the opposite side of the curtain. why do you think they removed job quests (which annoys me so much btw)? because the resources they need to create those quests has been ramping up and would keep ramping up to unsustainable levels once we have 30 jobs, 40 or even more. by removing them and creating Role Quests the workload remains the same, even with 100 jobs we will only have 5 role questlines and a capstone quest. it's sustainable scalability.
this is what making the 2 minute meta is all about. keeping the workload in check. making all future work easier, making balancing be an equation instead of months of playtesting.
it's the smart thing to do from a business perspective, yoshi-p is smarter than people give him credit for
Better Chemist idea: Ranged DPS with a crossbow and tipped darts
Throwing drugs is interesting idea for me.
Just like they did in FFT.
As it for now drugs are almost useless like the forced us to depending on healing magic.
Especially for Phoenix Down that thing is super useless.
Maybe this Battle Chemists/Medic had lesser casting time than magical healer but lose I item every time they heal someone.
Honestly, I just like listening to you speak, it could probably be about anything and I’d pay attention. One thing though, about jobs, I don’t know what the answer is, but I’d like some way to sorta make a job customized, play differently than others some how. Maybe the answer is sub classes? I’d just like to have a different way of playing the same job than someone else.
Chemist I can envision like NIN. You have three core ingredients that when combined produce an effect like Mudras depending on the order and then you throw the glass vial. lol
I'm gonna throw my hat into the ring, but I can think of a few reasons the devs want to water down the jobs to be so simple. One possible reason could be making the game more accessible to expand their playerbase. More players means more money, which is always good for a business to have.
Another possible reason is they're falling into the trap that "perfect balance is the best balance," starting to stray into the realm of this hypersimplification so there's no such thing as a "objectively bad job" – or at least limiting the number of objectively bad jobs as much as they can, which I personally can understand given how a lot of PvE content in FF14 relies a lot on multiplayer matchmaking and they'd want to ensure players don't have people just leave in the middle of a dungeon or raid simply because they play XYZ class they think looks cool.
I do agree that classes can get pretty samey-samey, but all the same it makes them easier to get into for someone who mained Dragoon all the way from ARR to the end of Endwalker, and is only recently getting into learning other jobs. (It also helps prevent me from hoarding too many different weapon and equipment types and completely cluttering my inventory, lol)
Really Octopath has really made me think is they ever did a “Chemist” it would be Apothecary (the class the little cat girl in Shadowbringers wanted to be.
My thing with the Mystic Knight (of Tirnanog) is I want to see how they evolve the Red mage concept. And see Alisae dancing with flying swords and flinging spells at the same time, but mostly the former.
Chemist obsession is probably 80% Morrowind enjoyers who subtituted all their combat and utility skills for drugs and potions.
The idea of Chemist, to me and a lot of others I think, would work kind of like NIN mudras where you do certain combinations to get different results. It's such a common thing, like Judge obviously meaning the XII guys, I don't know how you haven't seen it before.
Also, Beastmaster is definitely a limited job, which I'm surprised we haven't gotten more of considering they talked about how they were easier to do than normal jobs due to lack of balancing need. Maybe it's because people like me, and the one guy in this video, want BLU to have a real job version, but I want my Pokemon mini-game. I had always thought limited jobs were a way to test out ideas for jobs and then they could use things they learned and feedback to eventually have a focused version where they have to consider holding back so they don't hurt fellow adventurers.
I want bluemage to be real Q_Q
Judge could be something like Blue Mage, which puts out debuffs for enemies and buffs allies based on what actions are taken.
I lost it on the robot chicken castle castlevania clip lmfao!!!
Definitely nodded my head to these hopes. I am probably with the Geomancer crowd on this one. Or the concept of a Weaponmaster (think like Firion) kinda class. But that’s me hanging tight to the DPS. Can’t wait to see what they give us though!
A big shield tank. Kinda like a Cao Ren from dynasty warrior.
Time mage a lot of what Graha has shown feels more time magey to me…
I wanna see a blitzball job cause it's frickin stupid.
I'm really not sadistic at all I promise. 😇 I only want to enjoy the sweet sounds people make when hit by a whip. 🎶
blood magic necromancer I'm sure the devs say in a past live letter they want to try to add jobs not in any past ff games now so i got no clue what new job or jobs will be added in new expansions
All I want is a Beast Master limited job like blue mage, instead of going around and collecting spells, you collect creatures to summon and that can attack like old SMN pets
Why they simplify jobs? Because controller and console players (I'm one myself). You have limited buttons and other stuff like aiming LB with the sticks it's kinda hard sometimes.
We desperately need a overhaul to the dye system. We should have the ability to at least dye the primary and secondary colors of a item. Can’t tell you how many glams get ruined when I want to run a red coat and parts of it get dyed hot pink for some reason…
Being able to dye a secondary color would add a whole other level of personalization and customization for our character without really having to add anything new.
I just want a healer/caster Songstress.
Re dev simplification cliff notes:
Cross bar button limit gets us our current average job action amount.
Raid design gives us the time alignment, as the boss fight generally aligns with rotations to be buck DPS.
Lalafel tosser dps. you throw rabid lalafels at the enemy.
I am moderately surprised I didn't see Time mage pop up here. There's been several references to time magic in the game as well as.. Actual time travel so.. It's like right there and taunting me. But a DOT based DPS would be an interesting way to use it rather than the healer route I see so often brought up. Plus I kinda want to see if they could finagle you being your own class instructor (under cover of course, can't let yourself know things about the future) for the first few levels and then the next few are you mentoring yourself and doing the whole 'the best way to learn is to teach the subject' sort of thing.
i want to see psychic from ffx-2. i get that sage kinda is with the floating noulithes but like, i wanna float everywhere.
Parivir if we end up getting Dalmasca/Rabanastre proper. Dual-swords; tank/support; focus on moving into harm's way to block damage/aggro towards others. Like playing a swordsman who is a living blocking obstacle, able to keep groups closer to the target in a fight but still stuck in scouting armor and reliant on proper tanks to hold aggro. So really combat/damage mitigation as a class.
Really any matter of mechanical thought that allows for a newer interaction with the battlefield would make for a novel new thing to play.
People want an evil healer so chemist could fill that role
To be honest, I'm not sure many people are aware of this, but all classes utilize 6 different types of design (as in Encyclopaedia Eorzea Vol. II showcases it), which is the reason we get hammers for Warriors and curved blades for Paladin. They probably did it to avoid trouble creating new weapons using the same skeleton model, but it worked out against them in the end…