Why does the Utility Tax and the Ranged Tax exist? Why does one job “have” to be weaker than another in terms of raw damage output? Let’s discuss!
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Music Used:
FFXIV Endwalker – Cradle of Hope
#ffxiv #endwalker
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:42 Different Jobs Perform DIFFERENTLY
01:51 Why we Care so Much About Damage Specifically
02:41 The Utility Tax Problem
03:10 The Ranged Tax Problem
04:02 How is Such a Tax Made Fair?
05:34 What Justifies the existence of Utility Tax?
06:42 Removed avenues for Offensive Utility and Synergy
08:10 Synergy through Raid Cooldown Alignment
08:38 Enmity Management as an Offensive Utility
10:12 Todays Jobs don’t have as much direct Synergy
10:57 So why is Utility Tax “Necessary”?
11:47 Conclusion
13:41 Fun Fact
source
You seem to frame the utility tax as a bad thing, but I'm not sure you really think it is. You aren't advocating that tanks/healers do just as much dps as the dps classes, and I find that odd. They do less damage specifically because of the utility they provide, and that is acceptable to most people. Why would that tradeoff be acceptable between roles, but not within roles?
Tbf I think RDM should be at the sama damage if not more than SMN because I don't think summoner pays the tax for its movement. Summoner has a lot of freedom to move, as if it was an Rphys, yet it gets away with caster damage because?
As for RDM I don't think it does as little DPS as mkst people think, it actually still hits hard it just loses 1 GCD per res, which is what, 4-500 potency per res. That's, a fair trade if not a bit cheap but given how the community perspective of RDM is, it's sad people don't consider RDMs actually do do more daamge if they don't have to res.
Ultimately I think the issue is the community seems to have a large vocal side that screams "moar damage" and doesn't think of the consequences, and you will always get those. I just hope jobs in DT all flow more uniquely and have less in common than they do now.
Best thing you can do is try to shorten the gap between damage numbers between a utility job and a pure dps to an amount where the majority of people will agree that the dps loss between the two is negligeable, but where some people will still swear by tier lists that if BLM does 10k dps and RDM does 9.5k, BLM is the obvious option, even though both jobs could clear the fight easily when fully optimized, so that utility job players don't feel like they are missing out
The change I want to see, is that they add some larger cost to caster raise utilty, maybe for redmage it costs white/black mana, or for summoner it could eat a primal summon. So when the raise is needed it affects their damage more significantly than it does now, just a single gcd and instant cast. And then you can buff them a bit in damage to compensate so that clean runs rewards them with better damage.
It might cause some issues though where some players might not use raise ever to help the team out because "mah damage". But it also will put a better incentive to prioritize raise on healers more, because whenever I play redmage in PF it feels like healers are a lot slower at raising people and they might just be waiting for me to do it.
Ultimately though the damage difference is still really minor between jobs, and It just feels like a really tough issue for the devs to tune. We want most players to be able to clear the content if they put the effort in, and not get stuck behind tough dps checks, but we also want week 1, and strong raid parties to have a challenge with the fight. and not find the new content quickly boring because it's too easy.
i thought this video is about 'In the balance' music or raid about it 555
I think that part of the issue is that it's really easy to look at class balance instead of fight balance. "Can you beat this damage timer" is not the only way to make a fight difficult. In fact, even looking beyond DPS jobs, this is a really annoying metric.
If you're the tank or healer (bias warning, I mostly play SCH) one of the most powerful feeling kinds of fights you can have is one that's going *wrong*. That's when your ability to hold things together and turn it around matters. But because of the body-count checks someone else mentioned, and the fact that the BIGGEST metric for clear is "Did you meet the DPS requirement?" then even if you and a couple others manage to rescue a hurt party…it can just not matter!
"Ah, you, the off-tank, and the Dragoon, managed to juggle me for 60 secconds with minimal resources, get healer LB3 at the last moment, and save the party? Neat, good job. Too bad I started my DPS check 10 seconds ago so you just lose anyway."
Not really feeling the love for knowing how to make the most of all my utility as a healer there.
For clarity, I'm not saying it's easy to change, or that DPS checking moments are *inherently bad*. Just that variety would help this problem for the more team-focused DPS, AND add to the joy of playing Tanks and Healers.
oh, this debate again. not even going to watch the video. only thing that matters to me is that you can still pull the clear and so long as even the worst class is good enough to do that, there shouldn't be any problems except by uptight assholes insisting that they can't clear unless they have the best of the best which in most cases is completely unnecessary.
Honestly, Im glad they cut back on synergy. Basically being forced into playing what is best for a group, not what you like felt bad. Having a party that REQUIRED a specific class also sucked. In HW because of how fights were designed and how class balanced worked, people would exclude PLDs from content. Extremes and Savages alike were like that.
I think by in large, SE has done a good job at making classes viable in any variation of classes. I think the main problem lines in their philosphy of a two minute burst window, (that they actively put mechanics in anyways so that it delays or throws it off) and the fact that no class has a distinct way it plays with its own buffs. Like again PLD for example used to be about consistant DPS, but then they changed it in 6.3 cause of P5-8 made it hard for them to keep uptime so their DPS dropped. So change the entire class to fit out new fight design. DRK was heavy on buffing its skills with Dark Arts, managing MP and gaining more benefits in dungeons that the other two. But no, make it a WAR clone and also make warrior unkillable in dungeons instead of them.
It feels like fights, and the like are designed by SE based on what the vocal majority yell, regardless of if those in the majority play/do that content or class. Which leads to situations like now, where no fight feels distinct anymore. Fights just feel like other version of older fights. You will have some like stand out ones like Rubicante's rotating line mechanic, but thats just a spicier version of Diablos' doors. Its a shame too, cause it feels less accomplishing once you beat a new fight that has some new never done before mecnahic when its just a slightly more complicated old mechanic.
Personally I think it's an issue with the jobs power fantasy.
There are players who like to play pure supports, healers.
There are players who like to play pure damage, samurai and black mage.
And there are players who like to play a mix of the two, tanks and the rest of the DPS roles.
The last party that plays DPS has roles ranging from low support high damage to high support low damage. It's just a part of the power fantasy of that role. Giving more utility to black mage sounds like a good way to solve utility tax problems in casters but if we do that aren't we sacrificing an important part of the role? Making red mage not partly utility focused feels the same way. They're meant to be a mix between black and white mages, not excelling at either but being able to do both either way. There's no way to meaningfully balance these roles without dipping into their core fantasy and imo hurting them a bit.
So I don't see an issue with jobs being a bit unbalanced. As long as you can clear most content with a random mix of jobs, I'm fine with black mage doing damage that can't be reached by any other caster.
redmage and blackmage also have a heavy difference in job difficulty. Rdm is dead easy, to blm well is hard af
Balance in FFXIV has almost always been good, and it still is. I think the issues come up a bit more where it has to do with identity. And identity isn't meaning a thematic or style, but rather those gameplay elements that the job is picked for and objectively – they are also known to other players for. For instance: the Red Mage who has the "utility tax" is one of the greatest jobs identities, it's exactly known for its utility of instant raises, combined with magicked barrier and embolden, there is always a reason the Red Mage will stand out regardless if it's doing more or less DPS than summoner or black mage. Other jobs with strong identity include Ninja, Paladin, Dancer. But then, what is the identiy of say, Dark Knight? Why would you want Dark Knight over another tank? There is actually zero reasons except the state of job balance, which will swing to making the job desired to not (as we saw in Endwalker, as we saw in Shadowbringers…) – so the lack of identity is the consistent issue, it makes even the smallest imbalances stick out far more.
For me, it won't matter if BLM will outperform RDM, the truth is that I'll simply never, seven hells, be able to perform as BLM as good as RDM. I simply cannot lulz, not with the lag and inability to maintain proper rotation especially on fight that demands lots of movements. I'm confident that I'll rarely be bad as RDM, but I can say I can and will be bad at BLM plenty of times.
I'm not sure I agree with the title — executing Perfect Balance is not only possible, but it's as easy as pressing any other button on your hot bar. I haven't watched the video yet though, so maybe you have some good points.
Good points brought up on this one! Got me thinking about what would happen if, say, DPS jobs ALL had the option to bring either more utility or damage, though their utilities would differ, while outside of combat. Originally, my thought was singularly on Red Mage, since they have a 'stance' in the new PvP that could carry over to PvE to make up for the tax it recieves (making it viable both for prog and reclears with people who want to super optimize). So, in theory, it'd be that RDM could choose between having Vercure and Verraise and doing less damage, or not having it at all while getting buffed (white shift/black shift). I feel this could go either really well when applied to every DPS, or really really badly. Basically Tank stance dancing all over again, which some people liked and some people hated.
That said, as it is thus far, even if I understand the grievances of Physrange and RDM players in particular, all content is clearable, for the most part, even with a nonstandard comp (eg two melee + two casters, two casters + one melee + one physrange, etc)… past week 1. This is where we would see exclusions of jobs (like PLD, MCH and RDM in the previous tier), which would trickle down BEYOND week 1 when gearing would have patched up the damage gap and allowed any job to clear. That said, I feel the people saying any job in particular unviable (especially PLD) were probably talking out of their ass, because I know someone who got a week 1 clear as PLD and he wasn't the only one lol (someone in world first who was made to swap to GNB, looking at the ~numbers~, turns out the problem was their mnk was the damage issue lol). I thiiink his team had RDM as well but I don't remember. Someone else's static cleared with RDM/MCH on week 1 as well, though they did say it was a close call.
With this tier's damage check being far more generous, there was no need for excluding or changing to a specific job unless you really wanted to Kill Boss Faster. In my opinion, it's at least a better balance than it used to be in HVW and STB (and SHB, to a point), where you'd see heavy exclusions all through the expansion. I remember that one drama about world first UCOB having a DRK, which was considered Bad at the time, and the person who played the job basically said they did it because they think the job is neat lol. I think SAM was decried as Bad Job in STB as well (to the point where they got excluded from Extreme mount farms? Extreme???). And, well, you mentioned all the minutea of HVW and how certain comps would mean you HAD to bring a DRG.
Balance is a tough thing to strike, I think…
A suggestion to help with the ranged tax could be adding a "concentration" passive to the ranged role tabs. I say give them a stacking buff for not moving that goes down when you move without an ability.
I mean there's also job continuity. Everything in ffxiv is based around pre existing final fantasy classes. Black mage will never get a raise because it doesn't make any sense for them to. They're a destruction mage, not utility or restoration. That's like exactly why red mage exists and why they have black and white mana black mage + white mage = red mage
Perfect balance doesn't exist in any game, in the rare instance it does, it's extremely boring and falls off fast lol
You just accept it and play what you want or accept it and play the "meta". 🤷♀️
I just don't see the issue
Except
Why is black mage sleep better than the white mage?! Blm gets aoe sleep but whm is single target?! 🤮💀🦑
8:30 TY for saying this. This is why I’m pro-2M raid buffs. The more jobs that come out the more likely jank like this is. It was unsustainable. I’m so glad now you never have to think about if your job is okay for the party. You can slot any job (your favorite job) into any party.
I see this as primarily a problem with the community, not the game. So many people fail to understand that they're not racing for world firsts, or that no one on their team is a top 10% parser, much less top 1%. When someone signs up for a PF group on a fight that could be cleaned fine with four Red Mages, the particular methods used by bleeding-edge players 17 weeks ago aren't something they should be dogmatic about.
A few things: I appreciate that you find the the respond and heart comments, even on older videos. Also, I've rotated across every tank, except warrior, this raid tier for the group to help our new healer. Pld for the extra mit on p10s, drk for the dps on p11s, gbr as the in between. They've improved significantly and having them consistently appear has made it worth it. So this video kinda resonates with me.
I think you aren't being fair constantly comparing RDM to BLM.
No RDM player thinks they should be doing as much damage as BLM. The difference between these two is fine, I've never even heard/read someone say otherwise. So your constant comparison between the two is uncalled.
What isn't fine is the difference between RDM and SMN. Summoner arguably has as much utility as RDM, yet does way more damage, while on top being extremely easy to play. Come on, SMN is by far the easiest job to play in the whole game, yet is one with the highest damage while also being ranged, barely having any cast, and having utility on top, rez included. That's the problem. SMN makes RDM obsolete. There's 0 reason to play RDM over SMN. That's a huge problem.
Also, there's a third criteria beyond damage and utility, and you briefly recognize it at one point. Difficulty. Harder to play jobs should do more damage. I don't even think is fair for SAM to compete with BLM given how hard BLM is to play correctly. When also considering that third factor is that it becomes clear the problem right now is SMN doing more damage than RDM. Simply doesn't make any sense. By all its utility on top of how accesible is for anyone to play, SMN should be the DPS with the lower damage output, period. Not only among the caster but among all DPS jobs.