This week we’re taking a look at the Cash Shop for Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy 14. Even though both games are MMORPGs, GW2 and FFXIV have VERY different monetisation models, so I wanted to put them both head to head to see which one is WORSE! Guild Wars 2? Or Final Fantasy 14?
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Script: Christian Stroud and Marc Dickason
Art: Jomiro Eming
Voice Over and Editing: Christian Stroud
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THIS IS AN OPINION FREE ZONE!
If we limit the discussion to strictly "who has the worst cash shop", then I would choose Guild Wars 2 but if we consider the relevance of paying for a subscription, I personally like Guild Wars 2 more.
Kind of volatile to compare these two cash shops.
It cannot be stated enough that the reason why GW2's shop is more intrusive than FFXIV's, is because of the payment model. The Gem Store in GW2 is what funds the game and therefore it has to be more integrated into the everyday experience of a player.
FFXIV can get away with the modest shop because they don't rely on it as their main source of income.
30 usd mount will never be reasonable
I feel like your videos are VASTLY underrated. Interesting content easy to watch videos, nicely edited with a cool mascot/character. I love it!
Oh no…. did I just have an opinion?
Gw2 cash shop is fine…. I like that I can buy some stuff and look cool
One thing has to be set straight here. Living World chapters are unlocked for free if you log in even only once between their release and the release of the next. If you come in late, or are a newcomer then you have to pay indeed, but as someone has pointed it out getting enough gold to buy enough gems for a season doesn't take months. It doesn't even take weeks or maybe 2 of them if you don't have much time to put in the game or are generally not efficient. While there's no fix for the issue, there's plenty of guides available, both for beginners or more advanced players.
I find it pretty disingenuous when people who rave about how bad the gem shop is conveniently leave out the fact you can exchange ingame currency for gems, or when they don't pretend, pretend that it takes zillions of years to get anything. You may want tot take a lot at Star Trek Online, with a shop full lof horrifically expensive stuff, poor ingame payoffs to activities, 2 different shop currencies of which one cannot be acquired ingame, daily limits on how much convertible ingame currency you can actually acquire per day coupled with terrible exchange rates. I like it despite it being only half of a good game (space combat is great, ground combat is horrible), but like everything Perfect World touches, the business model is horrible. Anyone who has played their self-titled MMO in the original chinese version (before they launched an international version) knows what I'm talking about. There's a good reason why the most common joke you'd hear was about the cash shop being run by the Triads.
No doubt is ff14, 1 is mthly, 1 is one time.
Plus ff14 prestige costume is in cash only.
Gw2 player since 2012 here: There are many issues with what you said. 1st: Cool gear in Gw2 is lock behind paywall cuz skins. BIG LIE!!!!, best gear is legendary gear, you get that from raiding, you CANT buy it!! (so…you lied here sorry facts!); 2nd: Gem as a currency: you can make 40-50gold 1hours is what people average get when running a farm train, that allows you to get a LWseazon in less than a day of farm. Also Anet gives them for free again and again, from time to time….you just need to be active (so lie no2…sorry mate just facts!); 3rd: Anet is literally very consumer friendly, they didn't push higher prices on people nor did they hinder player progression due to payment (more so LWseazon 1 is comming back FOR FREE for anyone, for ever, as a please forgive us for locking content!). I like your videos in the past but i have to dislike this one, sorry you simply did not take time to research properly!
Hard to say. GW2 allowing you to earn everything is great, but FF really is unintrusive with their shop and its all non mandatory stuff.
I would argue that the most expensive in-game item isn't exactly a whale if you want to consider those /emotes locked behind the 300+ dollar statue purchases 😉
I was really surprised Square didn't lock an emote behind the 1,000 dollar Y'Shtola doll.
In all these comparisons, the biggest elephant in the room for the worst cash shop is World of Warcraft by far. lol
Pay to Win Mechanics in a Subscription-Based MMORPG.
"Manufactured Discontent" yeah part of that is just because Marketing and Consumer Psychology is still rooted in the idea of scarcity compared to how with a digital good technically there's no scarcity. As a species we're still not equipped to handle that mentally and still make the money we'd project in reports. At least that's my thinking on it. Also I should probably watch that video, chances are that point could have been covered without me realizing it.
I tried playing FF14, just couldn't get into it the way I did GW2. I spent so much time into the latter that the Gem Store really doesn't feel that intrusive to me; I don't notice it. Now I do applaud how you brought up how ANet allows gold to gem conversions, it gives those meta map farmers something to strive for with all those fat stacks of coin. As for the coolest stuff, some raids and legendary stuff or infusions in game might actually be cooler, but Fashion Wars is all about opinions so mileages vary.
Though for Living World Season, yes though they cost gems if you weren't there upon the release you did miss out on something. There's been multiple times ANet flat out either put discounts on a season's purchase or gave fans a chance to "catch up" and released a previous season for free if you log in a certain week. So while I can see why people grumble, it's not like ANet forever locks you in a certain price and says "deal with it". Again any complaints about the artificial scarcity and timegate for those deals I go back to my first point in my post.
The rest of the video I can agree with on points because you're not wrong. I still think FF's subscription is the main factor why their cash shop isn't as "intrusive" as you see GW2's set up, but if GW2 had a subscription, I could see them being just as subtle as FF. Then again if they had a subscription I'd drop GW2 like a hot plate on the floor.
My one "gripe" of the gw2 gem store are the little objects like the instant repairs and instant merchant spawns. The instant repairs used to be somewhat slightly useful back when it cost money to repair your armor, but the gold value of repairing your armor was NEVER worth the gem value
I will say, if you want to play without paying a monthly sub, the ffxiv free trial is an immensely heavy value. You obviously won't get access to newer content, but all of ARR and Heavensward, including the raids and jobs, is still a lot of game.
ff14 has a decent cashshop to mei dunno about guildwars. ive seen so many horrible cash shops in games. ff14s shop isnt in your face you might notice the banner showing the latest cosmetics you may want or something and thats it.
i prefer the 6month sub personally if there was a yearly plan i probably would go for it since i play almost everyday.
ff14 is awesome like that thier cashshopdoesnt take stuff away.
i was a long time GW2 Player but tbh..the shop drove me away. Its so in your face. New things popping up (like fishing) and all i think is "who needs this…..but its another thing you can sell skins for." And what happens? Few weeks in and we have already skiff and rod-Skins in the shop. It feels like everything is just being made to be a "skin-seller". They had huge problems with people not being able to aquire the new mount. But first week after release: Mount skins in the shop! For me, this was it. I just feel angered whenever i get a new promotion coming up so i quit it for the time being.
My problem with Guild Wars' gem shop is not that it has so many skins in it, but it is the only way to get mount/glider skins. At least with armour/weapons/etc, you can get some really nice looks just by playing normally. But if you're not willing to shell out some cash (or spend all your hard-earned gold on gems), you're going to have the default mounts forever. The other problem with them too; there are so many essential utilities/unlocks in the gem store too. It feels almost wasteful to spend gems on pretty mount skin when you still need to buy some IBS episodes, or could use some bank expansions, or a salvage-o-matic with the shared inventory space to hold it, or permanent gathering tools. Let alone the utility of spending gems directly on gold.
Even if there aren't many, I really wish that there were some more ways to get such skins just by playing the game. Maybe have limited-time pvp reward tracks that give you a skin redemption . . . like once per season or something? Something similar for pve/wvw as well. Maybe even some way to earn a special "loyalty" currency similar to other games with cash shops; it can only be earned through in-game means, but then it can only be spent on cosmetic options so that it doesn't feel like you're wasting them by not buying something "essential".
Good video tho! Just showed up in my recs; XIV and GW2 are my main mmos atm as well so very familiar with both haha
GW2's > FF 14 Cash Shop, Everyday! GW2 is the best value MMO for time & money hands down. It's a one-time purchase game that can be bought w. its own in-game currency, never using a credit card. Anet doesn't sell your information or advertise outside products like other free products on the internet. We get sold quality of life updates, skins, and some extra content using our choice of time or money. FF 14's cash shop is really bad because you straight up can't get certain mounts/content yet alone skins w/o using real-world money!
I've played both; GW2 is still my game of choice. I don't find the cash shop intrusive because you can bypass the shop in 90% of TP access methods, and there is no unavoidable pop-up that shows every time you log or change maps. It's just kinda "there." Regarding the no-direct real-world dollar conversion for gems is a valid criticism, but one that isn't so big a deal when you can get all the gems you need from in-game gold. The rate you can make in-game gold just by playing is ludicrous, and often directly tied to just playing the game. This is then converted to gems, and you haven't spent a cent. Additionally Anet typically has somewhat predictable cycles when new gemstore content will release, so you can always stockpile ahead in case you suspect there's something you may want (and with the serious dataminers, you often know of new store releases a month+ in advance.)
I do agree that it sucks having to re-buy old living world episodes if you missed their free release. However, those occasionally go on sale for up to 50% off in the store as well, and are often announced far ahead of time. Otherwise the offerings on the gemstore are mostly cosmetic, or quality of life changes (infinite gathering tools especially) but nothing that I would consider pay to win at least.
It's not perfect, but it's not like ESO or some other MMO's where it pops up every single time you log in or swap characters, shaking you down for money… And given the Buy-to-play model, I'm ok with the cash shop having *some* incentive for you to spend money, you know?
An argument could be made that FF14 – being subscription based game, with paid expansions, should not have a cash shop attached at all.
Like not so long ago people were arguing that subscription model is superior to b2p/f2p because it comes with no cash-shops attached. And yet here we are, I can't think of any prominent sub-based mmo that would not do cash-shops nowadays.
the ff whale has an interesting history since it was created to be sold during that years fanfest as unlike normal years all the fanfest event were going to be free, they literally said they know people want to give them money so they will have in game items made for they event for people to buy and we loved it.
Dude really picked 2 of the most toxic fanbases and said fuck their feelings🤣
i think you actually picked the 2 most reasonable cash shops in the industry to compare… cash shops are "bad", but these are as good as they get (given each game's primary monetization strategies.. subscription vs. f2p/b2p)… an interesting video would be comparing these 2 to all the other ones
Great Video. To be honest in this perspective WoW has still the best and nicest shop.
guild of war ofc
GW2 by far, especially since they use the excuse that the game is funded by it in order to try and force the casual user to use it through purposefully hidden information such as the idea that if you buy the expansions you have full access to the story but they dont tell you that you need to spend another 60 bucks on top of that to buy the living world stories that were free at launch. It's a shady practice. 14 is cosmetic, with a paid ability to skip some of the leveling if you choose, which also has its own downsides and grodiness attached to it but they dont bar you from content or hide content behind extra pay walls. They come right out and say this is where your free to play ends, this is what you need to purchase to get more story.
I bought that 3000 gem EOD pack. And yeah that was pricey. But when I look at what I spend on each game GW2 is dramatically cheaper for me because it has no Sub.
Because GW2 is horizontal progression, and you can get to all exotic gear within minutes of hitting max level and so be essentially done with 'powering up' (because Ascended is very optional – only needed for a minority of high end content)… there is no 'endless grind' to keep up.
Subscription games monetize by making you pay every month. F2P and most other B2P games monetize by putting you on a horrible grinding treadmill and then letting you 'VISA/Mastercard/PayPall' past it.
GW2 does neither of these. There is no need for anything in that cash shop, and none of it will help much with getting you 'to current power level tier'. So a lot of items in there that look predatory, like repair canisters – on balance aren't.
GW2 does have an insane number of absurdly long grinds… but they are ALL 'opt-in' optional things. None of them are needed to be able to keep up. Rather you can pick your treadmill to grind for months or years just to get a more flashy looking sword cosmetic.
At the end of the day this makes me feel a lot less hostile towards their cash shop. It also makes me seriously wonder how they manage to pay their bills…
Well I am going to put my opinions in the comments here. First I am a guild wars 2 player because I like the horizontal progression. I don't think Buy to play for an MMO is a good idea, because MMOs need a constant stream of incoming money. Normally Buy to Play encourages the Devs to throw a game away and produce a sequel. However MMOs take a lot of money to make, making it a bad idea to throw it away and make a sequel. This means a cash shop or constant expansion packs are needed for cash flow. Subscription MMOs have a steady income, so they don't need a cashshop as badly, but it allows them to extract as much money as they can on a per player basis. I think that MMOs should allow players to move their characters from server to server for free and often, but too many games copy WoW because they are greedy or stupid.
a big chunk of the ffxiv cashshop stuff is former event items which is something you probably should have covered since it's alternate method fo obtain stuff from events that change the rewards each time they rerun.
Buying Gold with Gems is just straight up P2W sadge
8:22 When you finish the math test.
I personally think guild wars 2 is worse.
With ffxiv, you can earn a lot of cool cosmetic stuff in the game. And the nice thing is, the shop isn't in the game and you have to get to the shop by the site. So it's automatically making the shop optional. And it's mostly purely cosmetic.
With GW2 however. If you are a mount collector and want all those cool skins, well you can pay a insane amount of gold for one or buy it off of the shop directly, you can't actually earn them.
I have to say, that for a game that pretty much relies on the ingame shop for monetization I have seen much, much worse stuff popping right into your face all the time compared to the GW2 shop. The seasons are better comparable to DLCs in games like ESO. Stuff that is covered by the subscription fee in games like FF14, but if you convert the sub fees you have payed until the content patch drops, you actually spend more money on the content patch than on the season story packs.
In general, completely independent from the actual game, you can list the payment models as follows:
– Subscription: Addtional shop not really needed, if added it is basically an additional cash grab. You will probably face time sink mechanics (and time gating), that keep you playing until the next payment is due.
– Cash Shop: The coolest looking items might end up in the shop instead of being rewards for playing.
Its easily FF14.. monthly sub, pay to skip, $42 mount
Absolutely awful
monthly sub says all
I've only paid for base game and expansions for a total of $120 for 8 years 🙂 Which is 1/10 of what I would have paid for ffxiv sub. I've only grinded gold to get gem store items, and enjoy doing so, it helps when the game is so fun.