we talk about Players that don’t want to Aoe and class/noob shame you.
my twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/heartcore55
Kaiser vulf: https://www.twitch.tv/kaiser_vulf
source
we talk about Players that don’t want to Aoe and class/noob shame you.
my twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/heartcore55
Kaiser vulf: https://www.twitch.tv/kaiser_vulf
source
Tanks definitely have to aoe, whether it's small or big groups. Imo even if you are new in a dungeon you should know your job enough to get through it smoothly. I think it was necessary to at least remind the tank that's the least he could've done. I honestly don't understand why some people refuse to aoe, I notice even dps don't do it sometimes and it does slow things down and makes everyone else work harder as in use more resources than needed. No one likes thier time wasted, being new is no excuse to not know your class abilities that late in game. I didn't see anything elitist about someone bringing it up either, the tank and his friend seemed like jerks. Being new is fine but being new and lazy is highly noticeable endgame
one bad Dungeon run is not the end of the world. that player is clearly the toxic one and it's a bannable behavior. if that player was really that mad, he could have just left the party. sometimes shit happens….. FFXIV used to be the most friendly community in MMO. idk how long it will stay friendly. 😟
i just wanna put a friendly reminder out there that many MMO players dont care much for the normal game and just wanna reach endgame ASAP. thats why story skip/level skip potions exist, even a lvl 85 player in endwalker might only play for a few days or is testing the game at a friends place on their account. just coz u see high lvl, doesnt mean that these ppl need to be experienced players with what they are doing
Yes, Tanks NEED to AoE when pulling. Tank with Tank stance only needs to AoE once or twice and they'll maintain aggro for the rest of the pull. When tanking you need to assume the DPS and Healer WILL AoE, as that's the correct way to go through dungeons, and by not AoEing you are not only spending more time getting auto attacked, which means more time required to heal and more mitigation required, but you're also having to use time and GCDs to pull back aggro, sometimes even having to chase after the mob if the enemy targets a ranged DPS that's keeping distance, which means all the other mobs will follow the tank causing everyone else to have to reposition to AoE effectively. DPSing effectively reduces how long it takes to clear the mobs meaning less time getting auto-attacked, which means taking less damage, which leads to requiring less mitigation per pull and less healing, which allows Healers to use AoEs more often.
Dungeon layouts are designed to prevent overpulling so long as everyone is effectively DPSing and using cooldowns each pull, which means using their AoEs when 2 or 3 targets are there, depending on the class. (with few exceptions like Aurum Vale)
I can only assume that the reason the Tank doesn't feel the need to AoE is because they are used to the Trust system where the NPCs will only single target and can take care of themselves if they are having aggro. DPS that starts using their CDs and AoEs will easily pull aggro and will die very quickly, especially if the healer isn't expecting to need to emergency heal the DPS since the tank isn't properly maintaining aggro.
Wanting a Tank to understand how to properly hold aggro in an AoE situation isn't elitist behavior, it's expected behavior especially in an Expert Roulette, which is probably what the DPS was queued in. The DPS is, understandably, upset that the Tank wasn't properly doing their job at end game. This idea that being upset a player doesn't understand how to play the role they have chosen to play even in end game is toxic is the biggest reason why I stopped playing this game. I got called "toxic" for being a healer and realizing our tank didn't have Tank Stance (this was a level 70 dungeon during EW) so I asked the Tank to please put on Tank Stance so I didn't have to heal our DPS who was currently off-tanking against his will and he said "What's that?" I then said "Please read your abilities, one of them should increase how much enmity (aggro) you generate, I'll sit here and wait for you to read them." Then had my character sit down. He proceeded to call me "Toxic" and left the dungeon. Keep in mind this person wasn't a sprout nor a returner, just someone who, I assume, boosted a tank and expected me to teach them how to do their job.
Edit: removed hearsay information I couldn't find the source for.
Yes, players can play however they want. Dont want to AoE? More power to you i guess. Yes, you can politely suggest improvements to how they play. They dont need to accept them and can do whatever they want. Just means the tank isnt getting a comm at the end of the dungeon.
Put simply
This was 3 randoms that got into a scrap because of 1's lethargic gameplay (a ToS bannable offense)
Anyone excusing this behavior of the tank because of <insert X reason here> is delusional.
-This is not Stormblood or ARR
We are now in Endwalker
Where a tank touching a mob with tank stance generates x100 the threat.
-This was endgame level 90 the latest/last story dungeon before DawnTrail.
– In a previous twitter comment in the thread pretty much resonated the same point I have. "If you cannot press the 2 buttons it takes to AoE, dont press the 5 buttons it takes to get into the dungeon."
As the most casual of tanks (I don't do savage, barely do current extremes, and I certainly don't tank those), the idea of not using AoE in a dungeon is unthinkable to me, and being stubborn about not using it when asked comes across as being disrespectful of the rest of the party. Frankly, using AoE as a tank should be like the 2nd lesson you get down before lv20, right after making sure your tank stance is on.
I would feel bad as a tank if my party members had a bad time because they were pulling aggro off me or we were going super slow. So that's why I learned how to do wall-to-wall pulls, use my CDs efficiently, and hit my 2 AoE buttons. That was all stuff I implicitly understood before I ever tanked my first dungeon, because I simply watched my tanks do their thing in past dungeons, and I understood that this was the expectation for tanks, and if I wanted to tank, I should strive to meet those expectations, which again, this is the floor we're talking about. This is entry level tank mechanics.
If this was Sastasha, then I would fully agree that the tank genuinely might not know what they're doing, and they should be helped out in a gentle and kind way. But at lv 90, the game itself expects you to have a much higher base level of experience in whatever role. They expect you to know how to respond to tankbuster markers and stack markers, and be used to aiming the boss away from the party. If for some reason you don't that that experience when playing at 90, please for the love of god just tell your party that you're new, and as a new player, you owe it to both yourself and your teammates to make an earnest attempt to learn. This game really doesn't press players to learn their job very much. I've noticed that after just 2 years of playing. But again, as even just the most casual of players, genuinely attempting to be better at the game feels very rewarding on its own, and it makes the experience better for everyone.
When I tank, and I see that my healer's MP is still capped after a whole trash pull, I feel amazing. That's my confirmation that I did a good job. When I notice that a raidwide is coming out and I use a party mit to help the healer, I feel like a hero, even though it wasn't even necessary because it didn't hurt that bad. I use my low CD mit on a tankbuster, even if I know I will only do like 30% of my HP at most and my healer can cover, because knowing I did something a little extra to make my party's experience just a tiny bit easier is satisfying.
lol 14 players are such babies and conceited entitled manlets I swear. Yeah an end game player sucks, just deal with it and adjust and move on if you're good at the game. Complaining just tells me you're not as good as you think you are. It's fine to give advice but there's no reason this should've ever left the dungeon where it went down. And it's laughable that people think bad players are wasting their time, if your time was at all valuable you wouldn't be playing a video game.
the guy clearly have no idea how tank work. they buff tank agrro so much that as long as you aoe, you will Never lose agrro.
if player coming back and didnt know, woudnt it better for them to Learn? and not immediately accusing anyone who is trying to Teach you an Elitism?
I hate that non-argument of "complaining about how other people play outside of endgame is cringe".. Bad tanking in casual content is way worse than anything anyone is doing in extreme or higher content. They're literally wasting what might be precious free time of three other people, either with deaths and wipes or insisting everyone single targets every single enemy in a dungeon only to pull a "you don't pay my sub" when being told how to play the game as its designed and intended like its valid. There is really an intelligence issue here of not comprehending "aoe combo with small number do more damage to many enemy than ST combo with big number", dungeons are literally designed for big pulls based around the 2 minute cool downs, even doing small pulls throws it off.
The few times this has happened to me I have happily taken the 30min penalty timer for the other normal players rather than dealing with that kind of nonsense, and is also why I never have "join in progress" turned on.
the situation that happend out right sounds like it was a basic pull(3 enemys) and the tank was using only single target so the point that any generated aggro they might of had on enemys because of a single attack they did do as a inital pull. infact it probably was so little that the healer was generating enough aggro from normal healing, not over healing to gain aggro them self. and i want to make this clear, the minimum bar of compentence even with a not optimized rotation/stats is that low because people dont understand that having tank stance doesnt generate aggro without actually doing things to enemys, i personally forget if it decays over time, but if the tank is using only single target and somehow not keeping up between the 2 regardleses of effeciency, that boundry for losing aggro is to easy. and i have personally seen this bar of compentency this low. it also doesnt help that lots of abilitys tend to have a aoe aspect to them, so even if you were having a focus target mindset for what ever reason in multi enemy pulls, the likely hood of hitting the others because of which job you play is vary likely.
I usually heal but I tank sometimes. Tank AOE couldn’t be simpler. It’s usually a 2 button combo rotation. You need to use some mitigation CDs but other than that, it’s pretty simple. The most complex thing is pushing provoke sometimes, if a mob gets away, which almost never happens. Why would you insist on making it harder by single targeting?
it doesn't really bother me when i lose aggro because a few aoes and a bow shock later and ill have aggro back but there's a saying i have for DPS who can't wait til the pull comes to a stop before going ham, im not turning back, if you aggro it then your part of my mitigation toolset until i reach the end of the pull and they bring it back to me.
I think it's pretty open and shut. You should be self-sufficient in an on-content dungeon.
Asking someone to do something that is learned in the hall of the novice is not toxic.
Level skip potions should come with an asterisk:
* You must complete 1 each of the following to be able to enter content in the next tier/expac: 1-30 dungeon, 30-50 dungeon, 50-60 dungeon 60-70 dungeon etc. (and if it's your first time on the role, maybe HotN)
In Dawntrail, that will be 7 dungeons. in less than 90 minutes players will make sure they understand their class and role, and the duty finder to a degree that this will not happen.
It happens in ARR and in on-content, it doesn't exist in the middle levels anywhere near as badly, even in the highest levels of Trial players.
Problem, Solution, Context and Reasoning.
So many of these RP players who don't give a shit make your day miserable, and when you can't take it anymore and you tell them to change their way of playing, they accuse you of being toxic/aggressive, etc. FF14 community has fallen down so much in the last years… it's the worst.
Tanks get their first aoe way sooner than most dps for a bloody reason… ._.
Now I see why they have made all tanks similar. Single target rotation, AoE rotation, big DPS burst on 1 minute cd. And even then we see players that dont understand fundamentals of how MMO works… Also DPS who pulls ahead of tank should always die from packs that he pulled xD Rule as old as MMO genre.
If you're not allowed to have some degree of standards for people at an endgame dungeon then when are you supposed to? A problem ive noticed is that people take the general ease of difficulty in most content as an excuse to be toxic by not even really trying to do the bare minimum and effectively worsen other people's experience.