Hey lloving watching you play through FFXIV. Been watching it on your twitch though as vods cause it is instant in good quality. Does watching it on here benefit you more or does it not matter. Look forward to seeing your thoughts when you get fully through.
One thing to note about FF14 story telling vs GW2 going forwards, is that stories coming from Japan are not burden by causes or agendas that shackle their creativity, they are confident on what characters they are presenting and witch themes they would like to explore. Check out the rules set by the Roddenberry Foundation, on how modern western media should be created, it applies to movies, video games, TV shows and books, every USA base publisher is incentivize to use those rules, and is throttling the quality of American stories right now.
I think for most people, seeing a famous FFVII summon (Knights of the Round) is a cool ending to the expansion. If you know about the summon, then the whole expansion feels like a build up to that moment, as it frequently and heavily foreshadows it.
The Archbishop states his actual intent a few times. He calls the Ascians “harbingers of chaos and strife” and that he would like to “rid ourselves of these vile interlopers” (Disclosure, cutscene #1). Later, when speaking to Zephirin he broadens the scope of his ambitions: “With the divine blade in our hands, we shall rend [the dragons’] flesh and drown the heretics in their masters' blood … And when we have rid the world of their pestilence, we shall turn our attention to our Ascian allies” (Alphinaud’s Way, cutscene #3).
So in short, he wants to kill all of the dragons in the world, all of the Ascians, and the heretics (almost anybody). Ending the Dragonsong War is just a stepping stone for him. With this intent does he start to mess with summoning, using the depictions of King Thordan and his Knights Twelve as written in The Enchiridion as a focus for the necessary faith. He is ultimately tempered to an amalgam of his ideals and those found in scripture. King Thordan the primal believes he is going to bring order and peace to the world. Certainly killing all of the so called Bringers of Chaos for a start would do that, right?
This all gets underway earlier than you might expect too. Just off camera, Zephirin transforms and says “for the glory of King Thordan” (Alphinaud’s Way, cutscene #3). Therefore, by the time you set out on your journey to find Lady Iceheart, the Archbishop had already summoned his King Thordan primal. The Knights of the Heavensward were all ‘blessed’* by this primal, giving them their “unnatural abilities”, as Aymeric puts it.
During the confrontation with Nabriales, he states that he “suffered the overweening presence of Lahabrea that men might host the power of gods” (An Uninvited Ascian, cutscene #1). So before you even stepped into Ishgard, Lahabrea, Igeyorhm, and Nabriales were working on creating these new types of primals. Even Ysayle would have been taught how to summon Shiva by an Ascian, as they are the only individuals with the knowledge**. Elidibus says the goal of their project was the “eighth Rejoining” (Heavensward, cutscene #13). I believe both King Thordan and Shiva were specifically necessary for this, but that’s a theory for a much later date, if I remember and haven’t changed my mind.
As for why he was at Azys Lla? It gets expanded upon later in another quest line. However, It is immediately clear to any fan of FFVI once the Warring Triad is mentioned.
*Blessing and tempering are different concepts, though not necessarily exclusive from one another. Another example of a primal blessing is with the Ixal and their ‘airstones’ which they use to propel their airships. Garuda blesses these stones, giving them their unique capabilities.
**Just to be clear, she learned about Shiva from an Echo vision, but would lack the knowledge of how to perform a summoning without an Ascian teaching her.
your point about Taimi is great. Personally i think the whole thing about Taimi is more overblown than it needs to be because Season 3…we basically spent time with no one else. everyone was off doing their own thing or even bickering with eachother – which is somewhat ironic considering this is the season we found "Dragon's Watch". I think theres even a vague line at some point talking about this, how it should be victory the guilds falling apart before it began.
Really feel we're getting somewhere with your feelings about GW2 in this one – somewhat of a therapy session to let it out. I do agree somewhat with that user in chat who talks about taking the good elements of both. I think t here is room for this without necessarily coasting through life with a meh attitude. At some point you can have your criticisms then feel, well is it still worth getting hung up about this? – though i get your stakes are higher who covers the game for a living. Its the same with a number of franchises. Don't worry you werent too hard on GW2, there was a lot of compliments hidden in there. The sad part is im sure a lot of Anet agree with your negative points too.
You mentioned youre own world building project. Not sure if the best use of time… but it would be really really cool to essentially plot out your own game without a physical game being pressent. Ive been watching some pokemon youtubers recently, and essentially theyve been doing video series like this. I know we've all had our dream pokemon region in mind , pokemon, cities, enemy teams, plot lines and stuff. Theres a couple of series im watching atm, they talk about the region and the maps fully plotted out – with accompanying mood boards of inspiration, and their own drawn art (some funded by their patreon). Theres actually plot videos where you follow it along in an episodic format, with voice acted cutscenes. ITs really cool because one im watching uses Youtubes premier feature and a new episode comes out , everyones in chat talking about the adventure.
I wonder if a world building with Twitch thing could be a cool side project (though like i said, youve got a fair few things on the go)
Maybe i wasn't paying attention but the actual Heavensward ward group barely got much story to them. I guess it was also difficult to have to juggle 12 of them too. I didn't particularly feel much attachment / rivalry with them
Maybe because im not the one playing, but i didnt think that story lived up to the hype. Most of the "oh shit" plot twists you watch unfold . I was wondering why on earth he thought it would be a good idea to bring the two eyes together. The "God king" part also seems a bit cheesey to me…still not overly sure how his overall motivation worked. It should have been more front a nd centre. Instead just as the plot was getting somewhere f or the pope, we go sideways on some other plot point and focus on that instead. Then we have a rush through the heavensward part of the game. The story was really well crafted and areas did have time given to them, particularly the dragon history. The story was interesting, but they did seem to add on random plot twists or tangents; people saying this works in the game;s favor as something thats extremely well crafted/clever. To me it came across as convoluted nonsense and unnecessary layers. The really welldone sections of the story could stand on their own – but they add extra bits that are often tropey. Tropes arent necessarily a bad thing but i think its just phoned in and shoddy to me and i expect more from it based on the quality of the rest of it.
"the pooch is screwed". what an eloquent, poetic, poinent & succinct phrase to captivate my entire feelings surrounding the guild wars franchise at the moment. thankyou WP
I had a long comment typed out but there isn't much to elaborate on for lore in this part that someone already hasn't, so I'll just say I would definitely like to see a video of each elite spec discussion with boots.
Also your twitch chat is way too sweaty about double weaving. The content in this game isn't tuned that tightly, even for savage and ultimates.
When people talked about instanced boss battle being the main thing they meant end game. The actual amount of quests and dungeons remains very similar throught the xpacs, the story experience barely changes.
As someone who has played the Guild Wars franchise since 2008 and only started FF14 two months ago, it bugs me that you discount FF14's raids as hardcore content, the normal mode versions of them are extremely accessible even to casual players and the stories are miles better than anything GW2 did besides MAYBE the Bastion of the Pentient. And Living World episodes only focus on one or two story beats. In Comparison, 3.1 through 3.5 add not only the MSQ, but Alexander, The Warring Triad and The Mhach Alliance Raids all of which dealt with the main story (although Mhach is pretty minor compared to the other two).
On the note of GW2 combat vs FF14 combat, GW2 may have better individual gameplay but FF14 beats the pants off it in terms of gameplay as soon as another player becomes involved (in PvE, GW2 beats FF14 in PvP hands down) GW2 group play devolves into stack up and pump boons as high as possible
4:06:50 his VA is Brian Protheroe, he voices another character in Shadowbringer but he hasn't had any other appearances in FF
4:59:00 can someone explain to me what the role of Azys Lla was in the game? Why did the pope go there? What was the whole point? I am so lost as to why the pope didn't just transform in Ishgard? What was the reason for him going through all these lengths + working with the Ascians??
Hey WP, Catching up on these streams slowly over time so I am a few weeks behind. I been playing FF14 for a few years now and never really thought of it as an end game dungeon/raiding type game. I believe the future expansions contain just as much story and open world as Heavensward. Maybe it cause I really enjoy the future story and the crafting side of the game. I dont really raid in this game as find it stressful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU
Here is the link to the interview with Yoshi P that we discussed on stream regarding ACT (Advanced Combat tracker)
Hey lloving watching you play through FFXIV. Been watching it on your twitch though as vods cause it is instant in good quality. Does watching it on here benefit you more or does it not matter. Look forward to seeing your thoughts when you get fully through.
One thing to note about FF14 story telling vs GW2 going forwards, is that stories coming from Japan are not burden by causes or agendas that shackle their creativity, they are confident on what characters they are presenting and witch themes they would like to explore. Check out the rules set by the Roddenberry Foundation, on how modern western media should be created, it applies to movies, video games, TV shows and books, every USA base publisher is incentivize to use those rules, and is throttling the quality of American stories right now.
I think for most people, seeing a famous FFVII summon (Knights of the Round) is a cool ending to the expansion. If you know about the summon, then the whole expansion feels like a build up to that moment, as it frequently and heavily foreshadows it.
The Archbishop states his actual intent a few times. He calls the Ascians “harbingers of chaos and strife” and that he would like to “rid ourselves of these vile interlopers” (Disclosure, cutscene #1). Later, when speaking to Zephirin he broadens the scope of his ambitions: “With the divine blade in our hands, we shall rend [the dragons’] flesh and drown the heretics in their masters' blood … And when we have rid the world of their pestilence, we shall turn our attention to our Ascian allies” (Alphinaud’s Way, cutscene #3).
So in short, he wants to kill all of the dragons in the world, all of the Ascians, and the heretics (almost anybody). Ending the Dragonsong War is just a stepping stone for him. With this intent does he start to mess with summoning, using the depictions of King Thordan and his Knights Twelve as written in The Enchiridion as a focus for the necessary faith. He is ultimately tempered to an amalgam of his ideals and those found in scripture. King Thordan the primal believes he is going to bring order and peace to the world. Certainly killing all of the so called Bringers of Chaos for a start would do that, right?
This all gets underway earlier than you might expect too. Just off camera, Zephirin transforms and says “for the glory of King Thordan” (Alphinaud’s Way, cutscene #3). Therefore, by the time you set out on your journey to find Lady Iceheart, the Archbishop had already summoned his King Thordan primal. The Knights of the Heavensward were all ‘blessed’* by this primal, giving them their “unnatural abilities”, as Aymeric puts it.
During the confrontation with Nabriales, he states that he “suffered the overweening presence of Lahabrea that men might host the power of gods” (An Uninvited Ascian, cutscene #1). So before you even stepped into Ishgard, Lahabrea, Igeyorhm, and Nabriales were working on creating these new types of primals. Even Ysayle would have been taught how to summon Shiva by an Ascian, as they are the only individuals with the knowledge**. Elidibus says the goal of their project was the “eighth Rejoining” (Heavensward, cutscene #13). I believe both King Thordan and Shiva were specifically necessary for this, but that’s a theory for a much later date, if I remember and haven’t changed my mind.
As for why he was at Azys Lla? It gets expanded upon later in another quest line. However, It is immediately clear to any fan of FFVI once the Warring Triad is mentioned.
*Blessing and tempering are different concepts, though not necessarily exclusive from one another. Another example of a primal blessing is with the Ixal and their ‘airstones’ which they use to propel their airships. Garuda blesses these stones, giving them their unique capabilities.
**Just to be clear, she learned about Shiva from an Echo vision, but would lack the knowledge of how to perform a summoning without an Ascian teaching her.
your point about Taimi is great. Personally i think the whole thing about Taimi is more overblown than it needs to be because Season 3…we basically spent time with no one else. everyone was off doing their own thing or even bickering with eachother – which is somewhat ironic considering this is the season we found "Dragon's Watch". I think theres even a vague line at some point talking about this, how it should be victory the guilds falling apart before it began.
Really feel we're getting somewhere with your feelings about GW2 in this one – somewhat of a therapy session to let it out. I do agree somewhat with that user in chat who talks about taking the good elements of both. I think t here is room for this without necessarily coasting through life with a meh attitude. At some point you can have your criticisms then feel, well is it still worth getting hung up about this? – though i get your stakes are higher who covers the game for a living. Its the same with a number of franchises. Don't worry you werent too hard on GW2, there was a lot of compliments hidden in there. The sad part is im sure a lot of Anet agree with your negative points too.
2:02:37 My favorite GW2 content creator creates a Star Wars/Zoolander "quote" as he plays FF14. There's a "like"!
You mentioned youre own world building project. Not sure if the best use of time… but it would be really really cool to essentially plot out your own game without a physical game being pressent. Ive been watching some pokemon youtubers recently, and essentially theyve been doing video series like this. I know we've all had our dream pokemon region in mind , pokemon, cities, enemy teams, plot lines and stuff. Theres a couple of series im watching atm, they talk about the region and the maps fully plotted out – with accompanying mood boards of inspiration, and their own drawn art (some funded by their patreon). Theres actually plot videos where you follow it along in an episodic format, with voice acted cutscenes. ITs really cool because one im watching uses Youtubes premier feature and a new episode comes out , everyones in chat talking about the adventure.
I wonder if a world building with Twitch thing could be a cool side project (though like i said, youve got a fair few things on the go)
3:19:29 – Are they saying the 12 are primals….or the version you know are primals and the 12 are still out there. hmmm
Maybe i wasn't paying attention but the actual Heavensward ward group barely got much story to them. I guess it was also difficult to have to juggle 12 of them too. I didn't particularly feel much attachment / rivalry with them
Maybe because im not the one playing, but i didnt think that story lived up to the hype. Most of the "oh shit" plot twists you watch unfold . I was wondering why on earth he thought it would be a good idea to bring the two eyes together. The "God king" part also seems a bit cheesey to me…still not overly sure how his overall motivation worked. It should have been more front a nd centre. Instead just as the plot was getting somewhere f or the pope, we go sideways on some other plot point and focus on that instead. Then we have a rush through the heavensward part of the game.
The story was really well crafted and areas did have time given to them, particularly the dragon history. The story was interesting, but they did seem to add on random plot twists or tangents; people saying this works in the game;s favor as something thats extremely well crafted/clever. To me it came across as convoluted nonsense and unnecessary layers.
The really welldone sections of the story could stand on their own – but they add extra bits that are often tropey. Tropes arent necessarily a bad thing but i think its just phoned in and shoddy to me and i expect more from it based on the quality of the rest of it.
"the pooch is screwed". what an eloquent, poetic, poinent & succinct phrase to captivate my entire feelings surrounding the guild wars franchise at the moment. thankyou WP
I had a long comment typed out but there isn't much to elaborate on for lore in this part that someone already hasn't, so I'll just say I would definitely like to see a video of each elite spec discussion with boots.
Also your twitch chat is way too sweaty about double weaving. The content in this game isn't tuned that tightly, even for savage and ultimates.
guild wars 2 story is fine but its in such a mess like it takes so much back an forth
When people talked about instanced boss battle being the main thing they meant end game. The actual amount of quests and dungeons remains very similar throught the xpacs, the story experience barely changes.
As someone who has played the Guild Wars franchise since 2008 and only started FF14 two months ago, it bugs me that you discount FF14's raids as hardcore content, the normal mode versions of them are extremely accessible even to casual players and the stories are miles better than anything GW2 did besides MAYBE the Bastion of the Pentient. And Living World episodes only focus on one or two story beats. In Comparison, 3.1 through 3.5 add not only the MSQ, but Alexander, The Warring Triad and The Mhach Alliance Raids all of which dealt with the main story (although Mhach is pretty minor compared to the other two).
On the note of GW2 combat vs FF14 combat, GW2 may have better individual gameplay but FF14 beats the pants off it in terms of gameplay as soon as another player becomes involved (in PvE, GW2 beats FF14 in PvP hands down) GW2 group play devolves into stack up and pump boons as high as possible
4:06:50 his VA is Brian Protheroe, he voices another character in Shadowbringer but he hasn't had any other appearances in FF
4:59:00 can someone explain to me what the role of Azys Lla was in the game? Why did the pope go there? What was the whole point? I am so lost as to why the pope didn't just transform in Ishgard? What was the reason for him going through all these lengths + working with the Ascians??
I have enjoyed this whole run of HW so much, thank you WP!
Hey WP, Catching up on these streams slowly over time so I am a few weeks behind. I been playing FF14 for a few years now and never really thought of it as an end game dungeon/raiding type game. I believe the future expansions contain just as much story and open world as Heavensward. Maybe it cause I really enjoy the future story and the crafting side of the game. I dont really raid in this game as find it stressful.