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Completely agree, stats shouldn't matter in PvP period. Every competitive PvP game puts the players on an equal fighting ground. Even league of legends used to have runes that you would have to buy with in game currency which was effectively p2w and they removed that ages ago . Only wow and it's community want gear to matter in PvP cause they forgot to take their rose tinted goggles off from back in the vanilla days.
As a matter of fact in Legion they implemented something along those lines where everyone was scaled to have the same stats , but people complained because they couldnt customize them , which fair enough , but instead of shunning the idea blizzard can just rework it to where you can customize your stats to some extent , kinda like how you change talents before an arena , you could just allocate more stats points to mastery/haste . But yeah leave it the WoW community to shot itself in the leg.
As much the fanbase like to hate each other I think both side would benefit from each other (hell let's throw in GW2 in there too) to improve PvP in all MMO. I'd like your take on that in a future video.
I like gearing in PvP, ofc the system can be bad, like it was in SL season 1 ( took way too long), but in the later seasons, the catch up systems were already in place and I think it is fine. Legion templates were shit and boring. From the looks of it DF gear pvp scaling is amazing, it is still way too early to tell if the system is good or not, but it seems like blizzard is going to the right direction.
Yes please equalize stats in pvp! Wish they could do that. I don't have time to farm gear, but I love pvp. We live in a "pick up and play" kind of pvp gaming culture. Don't nobody care how cool you think you are for one shotting ppl with no gear in pvp. That kinda shit has got to go.
So the story skip stuff on a second character is actually already in shadowlands and has been confirmed to be also moving into dragonflight, the problem you likely ran into is not having fully completed it the first time on your main character (sometimes you will have completed the entire quest chain but have not turned in the last quest yet) and then starting it on your dk, if you have not fully completed the campaign and start the quest line the option (usually starts with a bright red word) to say "ive already heard this story" is no longer available which is a major flaw that ive not really seen mentioned anywhere as for most of us who played it all at the start it was already completed and the option was there right away once it was added.
The same goes for torghast you only really need to unlock it on your one character unless a legendary power comes from torghast itself( the same campaign skip is also there for torghast) (usually they drop from layer 3+ meaning you should even with little gear be able to run through skip most of the mobs and just kill the boss and speed through in 5-10 minutes). You can also skip the covenant story campaigns as long as you have done it on one character and have hit 80 renown on at least one character ( You will need to do the story at least once and there is no quest like the pvp gear upgrades its just automatic once you have completed the story and hit 80 renown with said covenent).
Also something idk if you already know about but there is a vendor right next to the flight master in oribos where once you hit 80 renown once (no matter what covenent) you can buy a item for 500 gold (even on alts) to boost your renown to 60 as well as another item on the vendor to unlock all your conduits so no farming those either.
Talking about normalized abilitys and pvp ilvl this is something that a majority of the pvp playerbase does not want for wow (we spent multiple xpacs begging blizzard to remove the stat template) having gear matter isn't just about stomping lower geared players its also about player choice to play different "versions" of the same spec, stacking haste as a destro lock would play entirely different to stacking full mastery or full crit. The pvp upgrades currently in shadowlands are also sort of going away in dragonflight instead of needing to upgrade your gear constantly to get it to the max pvp ilvl it will always be max ilvl in pvp. The same the upgrades (which will remain rating locked like shadowlands) will be strictly for the pve ilvl of the gear so if your just a die hard pvp player you can almost entirely ignore upgrading the gear once you have it. Another thing thats become a common thing in shadowlands to gear alts (which has not been confirmed for dragonflight but i would expect them to move forward based on holinkas interviews he did) is you can use the conquest on your main to send (sadly rng) boxes to your alts that will give you non upgraded conquest gear skipping the whole grind on alts of spending hours basically either inting arena losses or bgs ( the vendor for these boxes is the same one that offers the renown tokens next to the flight master, however the boxes usually are added part way through the season to avoid people feeling required to spend a limited resource on rng boxes for their main)
I think from reading what alot of people say they feel like casual pvp should be normalized so that people getting their base honor sets of pvp gear are not stomped into oblivion but feel like there just needs to be crafted pvp sets from professions again instead so yes you can grind out honor sets which should be a upgrade over the crafted ones but your going into pvp with vers heavy crafted gear from the start making it much less of a oneshot fest, ide personally much prefer that over normalized stats and gear as that just removes player choice which never feels good.
That's an interesting take: to remove the impact of gear entirely. I dunno, I feel like there should be SOME benefit for putting in the time to get the gear, just not nearly as much. Maybe a max geared player functions 10% better than a full starter set, right? Something that, as a nooblet, feels challenging, but not impossible to overcome.
Especially because, and correct me if I'm wrong which I probably am, WoW is one of the few MMOs to retain the idea of gear (and therefore time invested) having an impact in a competitive setting. As long as it's not taken to a p2w level, I think that's a worthwhile model to exist in the MMO space.
I feel you 100% on the point of the narrative, though. I haven't paid attention to WoW lore since WotLK 😏 I imagine you'd have to have a major shift away from end game content to make room for the leveling/story experience to matter, which is unlikely at best. And, frankly, maybe that's ok. Having WoW as an outlier that relies on its endgame to support itself instead of doing what everyone else is doing is fine. Keep a little variety in the MMO space, ya know?
After having played Lost Ark and other games that do this, I couldn't agree more that RATED PvP should be equalized. World PvP and normal battlegrounds can absolutely let you go wild with your hard earned gear.
3:58 noo thats just we got ridoff from BFA if you have better gear then you have and in DF they solve this kinda bringing WoD pvp gearing back so there is only 2 ilvl gear honor and conquest gear no pvp upgrades so diffrence is not that big ilvl wise
Not touching WoW again – maybe a sequel but the old one is dead as far as I am concerned
Yeah PvP definitely to have equalized stats is the way to go, it works well as a basis. We already have how spells work different in PvP too. It's not about gear, but just skill. People moaned wanting vendors. I didn't care much as I wanted balance. But ok vendors, people can choose and browse items for order they want and not get random one whatever. But keeping PvP equalized so gear doesn't matter, but does obviously in PvE like we hear for DF so far. Should be good.
Also, definitely what Blizzard needs to up is to provide regular like weekly balance patches, something which really feels lame as far as PvP when something is off though.
yoo seen you in arena the other day glad to see you back man. holy priest called Bóney (i main shadow so dont judge me for playing the op spec xD lol). i think the problem with pvp gearing is the Ilvl difference between unranked honor gear and ranked conquest. the power difference is to much. atm in dragonflight there isn't any upgrading your pvp gear for pvp. it can only be upgraded but only for pve. i do thing gearing up your character should be a thing but they have made the power difference between ok gear and the best gear to big. MoP gearing was fine as ranked gear was just for transmog. hope to see you putting more videos out and keep up the good work.
is everyone forgetting that they already tried equalized pvp and it fell flat on its face in legion lol they will never bring that back thank god
DEMONS OF LMA0 👹😈👺
So if i remember correctly didn't wow do the stat templates idea once before. I believe it was legion but I could be wrong about this. I remember it getting a lot of backlash because everything you put into your character felt irrelevant in PvP. Now I do completely agree its gone too far in the other direction with all the barrowed power shit and even a bunch of PvE stuff flowing over into PvP and vice versa.
I personally think the correct balance is to just have PvP gear with slight stat variances based on what you want to build around that you can work towards and earn by playing PvP. Nothing else should affect PvP balance outside of the gear that is specifically designed for PvP maybe with the exception of things like enchants or gems but I consider those to be an extension of the gear.
To me WoW is still an RPG and some of the biggest issues with the game is that they keep removing and minimizing the RPG aspect of the game. Its soo much more an action game now then an RPG game. Making choice matter through things like gearing choices and talent choices i think should still be an important part of the game even in the PvP aspect.
They definitely need to do away with all the daily chore bullshit, infinite grinds, and temporary systems that drastically affect player power and none of this should affect PvP at all.
On a different note when you talked about story and making your character the center of the story. I don't personally have an opinion on this. I don't care how they do the story as long as they find a way to do it well which they have failed at for a long time. One thing I find funny though is your opinion on this seems to be at odds with most of the WoW community. The last couple of expansions has put your character at the center of the story as the "champion" and from my understanding the community has hated this shift and just wants them to take the game back to its roots where you are just an adventurer in this massive world of epic hero's and villains.
It is to me astounishing how antiquate WoW is compared to modern games in all aspects, but especially when it comes to quality of life and PvP.
Such an archaic mindset for design that makes the game feel even older and clunky than it is.
ff14 blows hot ass, fuck that
Unfortunately, a lot of wow players love the gear advantages. Legion templates got a lot of shit from the community, but I loved them. You could just join a game on your alt and have fun without worrying about bringing down your team by getting one shot.
In regard to your third point on the Narrative, etc.
The most telling thing to me, thinking about WoW, is that the very first mods were to skip Quest Text. I feel like that had a profound effect not just on the players, but also on the developers, that persists to this day.
I'm fine with standardized HP and main stat, but I want to be able to mess around with my secondary stats. You could just have all your gear scaled up to certain ilvl to do that.
What are you talking about torghast is SKIPPABLE just speak with bolver and it gives you the option to skip.
I'd perhaps like to see a few more abilities added to each job in FFXIV PvP, but from a casual perspective, FFXIV PvP is a way, waaay better experience. I decided like 3 days ago that I wanted the seasonal Glamour set and was able to smash out 120ish Crystal Conflict games (I was already rank ~10 from Frontline roulettes) in a few days. Was rough at first learning how to play my jobs, and what other jobs were doing, but just being able to jump straight into it and not needing to farm gear, currency, optimize borrowed power etc. made it a much nicer experience. I never felt like I was underpowered or undergeared, I always felt like I was contributing. Can't speak on ranked, because I didn't jump in to that, but WoW could definitely learn a lot from FFXIV's lack of barrier to entry.
As far as the gearing goes. The system we currently have is pretty good HOWEVER, the item level gap each tier has got to drop, seriously, it needs to drop. Shave the shit in half from what it is currently. I'll give an example, season 2 of Shadowlands max pvp ilvl was 259, season 3 was 285 and not it's 311 in season 4. Now look at that gap between season 2 and 4. That gap is the size of a fucking canyon. You're literally just not allowed to take a break in between seasons and come back and be able to play, if anything max ilvl for season 4 should've been 285 and maybe 270 in season 3. That way if you just decide you wanna stop playing for a season, you can come back and that gear you worked for still has some relevance, you can actually play and you won't be impossibly disadvantaged. You'd still be at a gear disadvantage yes, but at least that way you would still have a fighting chance and you wouldn't just get completely fucking steamrolled. It would also feel rewarding for skilled players. I think that would honestly just be the most healthy for the entire game and not just PvP
I personally think having gear not count in rated is a great idea! You still have casual pvp in which to flex your gear muscles, so in my mind this is the best of both worlds(of warcraft)
11:46 NOW thats a cool looking Jailer. Has a better story arch already and only in 2nd tier of raiding
Just make the level of entry to pvp easy & remove gear upgrading. Just let conquest gear be items u dont have upgrade.
I disagree about PvP stats, I also feel like in wow it doesn't take much time to get good stats and it's fun the feeling off getting destroyed to been able to put up a fight within a day. Though it would be good in below max level pvp
I don't think WoW should put focus on the narrative, it was never the appeal of WoW to begin with. Although even the world building that was WoW strong suit was beyond salvageable at this point. Shadowlands pretty much seal the deal with how it handle the afterlife so poorly and with leaked Dragon Flight they seems to double down on it.
just not "normalized gear/stats" in pvp please. Blizz tried in Legion and they fucked it up as a lot of others "scaled" content. Also it killed any chance at having a meme spec to g ofor in BGs. The only normlaized stats in pvp I would accept would be if it was like in Lost Ark where you can alocate points into stats.
With Torghast, I thought there was a skip once you did it once?
Casual BGs are a plague. If you dont have gear or barely any, you basically just should stay on the graveyard, you getting farmed anyways. Also alot of high geared people like to stomp others with lower gear.. so getting farmed till ure decently geared is trash experience. They should ATLEAST cap casual pvp in gear. Or better, just give us back WoD gearing system, it was great.
I totally agree with gear being standardize for rating bg and arena. I stated that before and have pvp rewards to be entirely cosmetics and mounts. You will have arena achievement cosmetics such as reaching 2k 2200 then they should allow some type of currency to gain while doing arena to purchase other cosmetics ofc it can't be on par with arena rating cosmetics but something worth grinding arena to earn those tokens something similar to lostark. Lostark give you a certain amount of points that you can allocate yourself into whatever stats you want for pvp.
I had some initial pull back from your take on PvP gear in rated PvP but after thinking about it you're right. You're freakin right. WoW needs you more than ever Cobrak.
They will never learn anything. Stop the copium dude , jesus
Completely disagree with the pvp gear equalization because it's already a bad, uninspiring thing in FF14–but what I do think is that WoW should remove pvp gear entirely like they did in Legion and BFA because all it does is segregate Pvers from being able to do pvp such as battlegrounds; if you go in with your highest mythic key gear, you still get creamed by people in full pvp sets. So if I've met possibly a month+ trying to get all my BiS gear from mythic keys/raiding and then I decide I want to do a quick random BG, I'm not going to have a fun time unless I then spend a draining time of grinding and grinding for currency to then get a full set of the best grade of pvp gear to swap to. The concept itself of having separate playstyle gear (Pve/PvP) seems ancient and unfit for current time–a waste of time, and the people who even asked for this should have just went to classic, but that just shows that Blizzard continues to listen to the wrong part of the community.
WoW doesn't need the massive in-depth story telling of FFXIV. All it really needs is to plan ahead, stop retconning EVERY major event and give the endgame raids an easy storymode so that anyone can experience it.
After playing wow as a secondary game instead of a main game. I personally don't think a specific standardized equalizer for stats would be the option. But I would like a middle ground where you're at least capable of surviving even while under-geared like how they changed solo shuffle to 272 Ilvl In season 4… Except rated, I think having it equalized would be a unique way of doing things. But I think the gearing portion is just more rewarding simply because it means even though you're grinding rated and getting high in the ranks the gear shows for your work.. although I personally think there should be more rewards besides baseline currency. Like perhaps more cosmetic features like more things to buy with marks of honor or get bundles of marks of honor like 5-10 per game. Perhaps a pet for example (like a Battle Corgi or something with helmet branding for horde or alliance.) for playing 25 matches in a row. Or something I don't know. Like I think just an initiative to chase the reward is a good thing. Because it means if you want it, you more than likely will put the time to get it. Which means more games, more players, more rewards. Good for business, good for gaming. A win-win perhaps.
I agree with the stat thing you were talking about. But there is a problem with it and that is that u cant experiment at all with ur class, for example Lost ark does this perfectly, they let u have 1000 pts that u can spend on whatever u want (haste, hp, cooldown reduction etc etc.) this is a way better system because the theory crafters can still do their thing even tho its all perfectly matched.
I don't know much about WoW story and lore but what I am sure about is the very strong nostalgia factor that many WoW gamers share. It doesn't take a writing genius to take advantage of that and use that as a center piece for the story. First, you need an antagonist that you can understand and sympathize. Have a world in a brink of clash between past and present. Have the antagonist be that person to bring back that old days (like ascians). Have interactions with old characters from the past and have it interact with their older self. Make it be an arc of their sub story. Coming in to terms with their past decisions and what they have become or go the opposite. Make the people choose between restoring the past or use past to heed for the future.
I didn't realize how much I couldn't stand Warcraft PvP (The gear side of things) Until I played FFXIV new PvP system in 6.1. I had 2 friends trying hard to get me to gear up in wow, And I couldn't do it. I didn't want to pvp on my main so an alt was a massive waste of time (imo). Then I just go FFXIV you really just go in a brawl. It's amazing in that way. It's like play Overwatch when you join a match a Mercy and Mercy player are = in stats. What makes them awesome is their skill and team skills. I felt so bad because I never did gear up that alt to PvP in wow.
I actually enjoy FFXIV pvp more than wow. I like the solo ranked. I like equalized gear.
love how you roasted the pallys :')
After 14 years of playing wow (pvp,pve) I still don't understand why gear should matter in "rated pvp" content, just ridiculous. It's about skill, not relying on luck or how little social life you have. Hunters ignoring line of sight, absurd oneshots, classes with 20+ keybinds and others with max 12 don't make sense (I have playing ALL classes 2.2k+ only 2 of them 2.4k+ ).
Gear, time spent farming sh$# game no one cares about, they need to be removed from "rated" content. Its ok in random bgs, wpvp, pve… obviously.
Complaining because you couldn't customize stats in RATED is stupid, having even a 1% advantage is stupid.
The reward? more fuc#$# mounts, titles, cosmetics, pets, unique sets, a better sense of progress than gear. I think that if you really love pvp and being competitive, the satisfaction is in improving as a player and scoring. What kind of trash do you have to be to rely on that perk?
Legion was close to what you suggested with how ilvl scaling worked. If in legion we hadn’t gained so many ilvls every tier and instead like 5 ilvls per tier than by the end of an xpac it would be like 50 ilvls from capped to bis which would have been 5% difference in stats(if I remember correctly). Or essentially very little (obv a big thing in an equal matchup of skill, but nothing when there is a skill mismatch)
If they make the gear quick to grind like they seemingly are dragonflight and making it mostly accessible via honor not rated basically only it will be good enough. But ideally yea gearing in rated is antithetical to why rated is fun and different from pve and non-rated pvp
The problem with healers currently is the way they are good is tough to balance.
Hpriest recieved like 4 sets of nerfs and didn’t really decrease at all in representation until the most recent season with a final bigger nerf. And now they are dead in 3s. Mystweaver to be viable needs to do such overpowered throughout that the entire gameplay loop changes for most melee classes because sustained pressure is so much less useful unless they can make the mystweaver position into a vulnerable spot for swaps/cc
Rdruid currently doesn’t play to cc much against a lot of comps because of how vulnerable it is to swaps but if they buffed its survivability by enough to let it be more aggressive they might just be the entire ladder
Hpal just needs minor changes and throughout minor buff but they seem balanced just not S tier last I checked. Possibly the only well designed healer for current pvp.
Disc by healing from dps will always be op or up because the tuning to make it fair on both ends needs too much precision imho but if they found a way it is cool as fuck.
On the story stuff they did it in legion a bit with class halls and I agree fully was awesome I hate that my warrior doesn’t visit Valhalla now like ever
It is pretty cool talking with some of the NPCs during quests or just randomly and they’re like ‘omg it’s YOU!’. You never really got that from WoW.