Why WoW Can't Have Nice Things Like FFXIV – the Class Tuning Problem



Developer communication with players is often highlighted as a major difference between World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy 14, with FF14’s Live Letter with Yoshi P a great example. But Taliesin thinks there’s a pretty good reason why WoW can’t replicate FFXIV’s popular format, and it’s all down to WoW’s class tuning problems, talent trees and tier sets

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22 thoughts on “Why WoW Can't Have Nice Things Like FFXIV – the Class Tuning Problem”

  1. The other issue is WoW has way more fight types and profiles than FF. In FF dungeons aren't really hard (mostly) and most raid fights are single target. There are also fewer boss fights that are grouped together like a WoW raid. WoW you have single target, AOE, cleave, funnel etc types of damage that FF doesn't really have. Those different fight types make class balance a lot harder. If you make a aff lock really good on single target they will be a god on spread most of the time. Same with destro locks. If you remove all the tier stuff and powers assuming destro and demo are even in ST, then Destro will always do more damage in two target. Its how the classes work.

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  2. While I agree with Tali that wow classes are much more complex in customization, I think this is still a choice that blizzard makes to focus on it.
    I think that conversation doesn't only happen because of the many things wow offers (talents,trinkts,legos,trinkets,soulbinds, covenants) but also because a lot of the content is what would say is "sweaty" content.
    I think everyone can agree that most resources of wow dev going into endgame stuff as wow is a endgame focused mmo, like raiding, m+ and PVP. If you combine that with incredible build complexity and forced group play its no wonder the number one talking point is balance because it has disproportional effect on your enjoyment of the game

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  3. i'm not sure if i'd still be playing WoW at this point if it wasn't for my guild
    also the reason why i barely ever play opposite faction, because my guild isn't there

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  4. The thing is we don't need our jobs to change up, since we have access to all jobs at all times to swap around.

    In WoW I only played one class and so my mage had 3 specs, where I typically swapped between frost and fire, which have undergone many changes throughout the two expansions Ive played her on.

    In FF14 I main a dancer, but I also have access to ~20 jobs that I can swap to and play. Not all are max level, but that gives me more reasons to play my one character. I can get to understand how each job works too. So both have multiple ways to play your character, they just go about it in a different way

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  5. "You choose a class not a spec" I highly disagree. Paladin since Vanilla and repeated again in classic. Yes I level and do quests holy, I will never be Prot and I will never be Ret. Totally true on the guild vs random for being able to play what you like vs what is optimal. Because it is more fun to play with people you like.

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  6. One thing that you didn't mention about M+ dungeon pugs. That has been a hugely useful tool for helping me form a group because now I have a quick view into what that player has accomplished which is far more valuable information and just their spec and their I'll.

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  7. FFXIV rotation on average 100 damage – 210 damage – 360 damage
    WoW rotation on average worse than a 4 year old holding 4 crayons in 1 hand art project.

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  8. I think if you somehow allowed people to shift class at whim like in ff a large proportion of complaints on balance would fall. Or at least the vitriol would. I think a lot of class balance concern comes from worry of being unable to engage in content at all rather than being upset that your specific spec isn't great.

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  9. The attitude of over zealot of balancing almost every patch update what kills the fun for me in WoW. Yes balancing is important but if it kills fun and make things bland? Then I prefer it stays unbalanced but fun. The issue is the game world of warcraft by design is meta design+the community of WoW. Like the game doesnt help the players to play what they want and you as a player cant fool around and play with sub optimal specs anymore and if you did somehow? You will be trash on by other meta players and good luck finding group doing dungeons let alone raids. WoW design in the last couple of expansions main focus is the end game and everything before the end game is almost irrelevant. That is the core issue.

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  10. I don't think the argument at 19:30 ish ("even if a spec was meta or not-meta by 0.1%, people would still take the meta specs") is valid.

    In FFXIV the jobs are different by more than 0.1%, and the vast majority of pugs don't lock out any jobs – because there is an advantage to being able to fill your group faster, or if you prefer, to being able to fill with higher item level players.

    People are making tradeoffs to exclude specs; if the specs are balanced enough, they won't want to keep paying those costs.

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  11. Longtime WoW player and short term FFXIV player. I will admit sometimes it's completely overwhelming the options for wow classes and then you have grind for gear that you may or may not be what you choice spec. I didn't miss that at all playing FFXIV. I am not saying wow needs to have it exactly like FFXIV but dude changing talents and what not every exp is annoying to me.

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  12. The problem with this logic is that the meta mindset in wow is very real and cannot be ignored. If a Grade school football team had the meta mindset and tried to play with a professional mindset then that would be feel incredibly bad for the positional players just trying to get into the sport. That’s what some specs are feeing just trying to get into the game.

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  13. with demo lock, it was the top spec for the xpac then they nerfed it into the ground, and they did it to ease the pushback when they gave all its fun abilities to demo hunters one patch later and shadow redesign stole what didnt fit in demohunters tool kit. Demo has been garbage since they never put effort into making it a decent spec when they gutted it, its still trash now, sorry but im still sore about that years later. Your right about the design point f14 v wow.

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