This has been a topic that many have asked so I figured why not center a lore video around the idea? Be sure to leave me a comment with your idea of what the universe of FFXIV would look like without the Final Days! Do you think something similar would have happened anyways? Or that a new tale would’ve been told?
Follow me at: https://twitter.com/ScribeSynodic
Channel Art by Catti: https://ko-fi.com/catticatgame21234
Join the Channel’s Discord: https://discord.gg/YKBu4sQBEk
Support the Channel on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/synodicscribe?fan_landing=true
Disclaimer: The MMORPG known as FinalFantasy XIV Online as well as all its related publications and merchandise are owned by Square Enix. I have no claims to it.
Primary Sources:
Video Games-
FinalFantasy XIV Online
Publications-
Encyclopedia Eorzea Volume I
Encyclopedia Eorzea Volume II
Encyclopedia Eorzea Volume III
Alternative Sources:
FinalFantasyXIV, The Lodestone/Sidestory
FFXIV, Letter from the Producer
Published FFXIV Brand Art Books
#ffxiv #lore #endwalker
source
An interesting idea i had is that the ancients might have left eitheris to start over again on another star. After all it was mentioned in passing that they had done it before and that they weren't originally from eitheris, but had sought out a new world and named the star eitheris due to how unusually rich the star was in aether.
Which raises additional questions about where the ancients came from, what happened to their homeworld, and if there are still ancients alive on another star. (Or rather if there were any before the final days happened. I doubt any survived afterward.)
No hermes. No amon no fandaniel in that form. Xande wouldnt have been resurrected alag probly wouldnt have happened anyway with the ancients still around unless they all decided to die peacefully
I still think the Meteion/Endsinger's "super-nihilism" is unnatural; while things being dead and dying is depressing, wanting to mercy-kill the universe is another thing entirely…
Endsinger's lines during Phase 2 of the fight imply to me they saw "something" that pushed them over the edge…
So perhaps, if the Final Days did not occur, perhaps that eldritch "something" would've been the big problem they'd have to deal with eventually…
The future without the Final Days leads to the Omicron's Conquest of Etheirys long before they reached perfection.
God I would LOVE to watch Emet Selch completely annihilate Omega while complaining about being forced to do so.
That raises the question of "Would the Dragons have even COME to Etherys if there was no Endsinger?" I mean, didn't they come because their homeworld was lost?
Id like to think The Ancients would become stewards of The Universe! Decimating the Omocrons and uniting all worlds!
BeneG. answered this months ago. 😂
https://youtu.be/M-OgYU6GgEY?si=DQbb_YJNEftoQifj
I know this is a longshot and I often come here both from a FFXI perspective and XIV perspective, but could you do a video after the FFXIV x XI Raid on how both worlds could possibly exist with one another while also explaining why they can't? I'm a HUGE nerd for both games and loved when XIV made several references to an old MMO I used to play <3
There’s always a next threat in FF. It always does seem that way. And the star is funnily enough a hot spot for weird things happening be they from another star or another dimension. But had the star not been sundered, we might have had other things to worry about. I’m of the belief that in some way, the universe always finds a way to correct itself, either by providence or the hand of man.
I think something that's important to keep in mind is that the unsundered world is depicted, frequently throughout the Elpis chapter of the MSQ, as a flawed society that's not quite as utopian as it fashions itself. Its people have seemingly no regard for life apart from their own; even the most good-natured character we meet turns a butterfly into robes without a second thought. And while there may not have been anyone else on Etheirys who would've taken the actions Hermes did, we see that there are other people who are malcontented with their society and who see through the facade of harmony to the problems festering beneath, but who don't feel empowered to say anything.
Furthermore it's a society that, just like the failed ones we meet beyond the stars, is devoted utterly to the pursuit of perfection and a world without suffering. It's about avoiding and denying the darkness in the world instead of accepting it and learning to overcome it—in fact their very aetheric makeup prevents them from doing so. The fact that all of these other societies failed is proof of Venat's philosophy: that this is a futile and ultimately doomed endeavor. And without a trigger to steer them off this path (and some way to make them more aware of dynamis), it's reasonable to assume that this pursuit would have ultimately doomed the Ancients as well.
Always wondered how the conversation with Venat really went "Btw… the empire will develop a gas that will kill me and most heroes, you HAVE to let me die, trust me, the catboy will then travel to the past/alternate timeline and prevent that from happening in another timeline in which, I guess another you won't even have to worry about me dying anymore"
Always fan of informed speculation.
I suspect if things had continued, dragon-daddy's arrival would have been considered a positive. Aside from acclimating the refugees to a new society, I think the Ancients would have welcomed Midgardsormr. And Tiamat wouldn't be so depressing…
I too think the world would have been better without twitter
It's interesting to think that one of the only events that would not be changed by the absence of the Endsinger is Midgarsormer's and Omega's arrival. I how differently those events would have played out.
The Omicron Invasion on Ethyries would of been Like the Garlemald invasion into Eorzea but x10,000 more intense from both sides. Legit High Fantasy Vs Sci Fi
The main difference between the Ancients and teh Nibilim and Ea, was that the Ancients didn't make themselves immortal or at least, they were smart enough to include an off-switch.
The final days would have never happened…if only you had sold all three fish!
great video!
the thing that probably struck me most about ancient society was how they feel about their families. in the pandemonium raid, themis mentioned how odd it was that ericthonios felt so much resentment towards his father lahabrea. themis said that he, like most other ancients just felt the normal amount of “gratitude” towards his parents. like, not love. just… gratitude for bringing him into the world. and to have any other stronger emotion was odd.
makes me wonder, were the ancients truly as happy with life as we were led to believe? or were they conditioned from a young age that the pursuit of perfection for the star was more important than themselves, and suppressed a lot of their emotions because of it?
lahabrea quite literally tore himself away from his emotions to do his job better, and it fucked up his son. he is definitely an extreme case, but I wonder how widespread self-sacrifice for duty like that was across the ancients, and what effects it may have had on people.
makes me think that maybe ancient society was a lot less stable than we were shown.
Hermes: I agonize over the moral implications of being able to create and destroy life at a whim and how it pertains to the meaning of life and I am appalled at the apathy of my peers.
Athena: Since my creations live and die at my leisure and they are mine to do with as I please, therefore I am a god and any moral implications and life itself are thus meaningless.
I love the dichotomy between these two.
I think Athena would have become a threat again eventually once the opportunity arose. I'm sure they would have taken in Middy as he was seeking refruge but at the same time I think without Meteon the Omicron wouldn't have stopped their war and would have eventually followed Omega's signal to their next destination. And who knows how many other threats out in the universe could have existed that ended because of Meteon?
Shared to my FC group on Discord. Thank you scribe!
I think your proposed theory of "They would give themselves to the star" IS how they would end up like the Nibirun. Not exactly, not a one to one match, but self selecting that they would die. I think Metion saw the ancients in them, and that's why they horrified her. She had fed on Hermes hang ups with with death for who knows how long, only to have that mixed with a race of people just like the ancients, all committing suicide. Sure the Nibirun were largely devoid of culture, but you can draw that line between turning yourself into a butterfly only to fade, and giving yourself to the star, and letting it spit you out as another animal only to die. I think it's telling that one of the first things we do when we reach Elpis is take butterflies and turn them into something else.
Its shown in elpis that the ancient society is flawed, and striving for perfection, that same perfection is why i think Ishikawa said they could become like the DeadEnds 3rd źone people,
However, i dont think that would change history that much, because as soon as Venat would have seen them "unaliving themselves" as shown in the dead ends dungeon, she would have sundered the world yet again, even without meteion
I agree with self termination. The Ancients will either be so bored to literal death, or they'd be purposeless so they become one with the Star. Or maybe an alien thing wipes them out lmao.
Or they'll become a cosmic invader that wants all planets to be perfect paradises like the Iscandarians.
If Meteon is now singing a song of hope, does that mean planets she may have halted previously can start anew? Could that be something we're going to explore in DT's Cosmic Exploration?
Hermes just fell under the cracks
We wouldn't need to visit Elpis to find clues or truth about dynamisk. We would not be able to confront Athena in Pandemonium and Ultima through Athena would take over the will of the star to create Ultima's vision of the world.
But also, the star wouldn't be sundered and Zodiark wouldn't be summoned.
So we would play as our Azem self.
If Jenova existed in FF14 (or maybe she already exists but she travels in a different demension) and came, the Ancients would freak out and their world would end up becoming like the world in FF7 a world that has become imfested by the terrible decease knows as Jenova…
Makes me wonder if the Ancients from FF14 had the same abilities as the Cetran Ancients of FF7 being able to communicate with the planet and through there able to somehow quell Jenova's sickness upon their world?…
I feel there is a chance they might have encountered the omicrons since they were kind of desperate for a new threat to give them purpose after they beat the dragons and I think a world of unsundered ancients would be strong enough to give them there reason to continue evolving
Hermes said "Are we all to die in satisfaction?" Well, yeah. Once no further improvements to the planet could be made, the human race would likely have a giant death party where they all return to the star and it would be the most ultimate beautiful. At least to their culture.
Personally, I don't think they would have succumbed to the same fate as what we see in the dungeon – they show enough individuality and enough clashing opinions that such would be very likely unless they started to experiment on themselves. I could see a few other major threats arising from within the Ancients, but the major shake-up would likely be Midgardsormr arriving to Eitherys – at which point I could see them trying to stop the Omicron people from their hostile conquest of the galaxy (after a lot of debate)
Without the Endsinger, the robots would eventually have chased midgarsomer here, and then taken over here as well. The ancients would have stood no chance.
I suppose what could transpire depends on if Midgardsormr still finds Etheirys to be the last bastion of hope. If so, dragonkind comes to a fully aether rich Etheirys several times more dense than the state he finds it in when he enters into his pact with Hydaelyn. This would make The First Brood grow up even stronger than they are in our story. Given then that the dragons are peaceful but touched by war, and that the Ascians are peaceful, but this is their first contact… I suppose we could get a storyline where the Ascians and the Dragons become allies, and then fight against the Omicrons. Assuming that the Omicrons bother to follow Omega to Etheirys.
If nothing else, it could inspire Azem to want to travel out beyond the stars, and would then prompt the Ascians to devote concentrated societal effort to understanding outer space and Dynamis, and we might just wind up with an Ascian/Dragon society that wants to improve and perfect the entire universe, under a peaceful banner. Perhaps the Ascians would create spaceships.
It would certainly be interesting. Perhaps they could even solve the heat death of the universe after directly encountering the Ea.
Thank you for this unexpectedly nice on this topic video. Almost all supposition about the Ascians since Endwalker that I've run into online says that they were wrong and had to die. This open mindedness about the topic is refreshing.
When you first arrive in Ultma Thule Meteion bird basically talks about how souls, when an entire planet die still join a larger flow. Followed by that information you have Emet's "The civilizations in the shards would surprise you." I think that when Venat realized what was happening she channeled all the souls to the shards, and those entities still exist on those shards.
I only read the thumbnail and I thought I was having schizo moment the entire expansion "What do you mean she never existed?"
I can't remember, was there any discussion of any civilization besides the Omicron and Midgardsormr exploring beyond their home planet? I don't recall if the Ea went to space or if they just deduced the heat death from their home. I could definitely see the Ancients deciding to explore the universe if their civilization made it to that point. That would have at least prolonged their search for new challenges and meaning for a very long time.
Just makes me think of Omega and Onicorns invading as the most likely conflict they'd face.
When Meteion shared her sisters' report the planets were listed in a numerical order, but does that order also match the order contact was made? Part of me wondered if some planets had weak aether, making them more vulnerable to the flock's growing aura of despair.
On topic, though… If Metion was never made, things would have happened differently for sure.
Some civilizations would still be wiped out by unstoppable plague or apocalyptic war, but others could have continued on for much longer. The Nibirun may have continued existing in apathy without being reminded of the other emotions and sensations they used to feel. Maybe a dragon would land on their star, shake them out of their apathetic numbness, and bring a bit of joy through song.
Back on Etheirys, the Ancients would continue their quest for perfection with a dash of one-upmanship. That minor competitiveness could keep things interesting for a while until all reasonable ideas are exhausted and creations become too weird and dangerous. At that point there may be a bit of a crisis. Should a person return to the star if they can't think of something to contribute? Should they become a steward who only acts when needed? Would there be some kind of migration to bring life to another star, or would that upset the etheric balance with so many souls leaving for good?
I always had a headcanon that if the final days wouldn't happen, then the ancients would eventually be divided and have civil war.
While I agree that there was a minute chance of anyone being in the position Hermes was in, I would argue that there may have been more ancients with the same mindset. One of rebellion and betrayal. With Ancients living for ever basically, overpopulation could become a thing and history teaches us that when empires grow too big, they tend to break apart (just look at rome).
I think eventually there would be enough Hermes like thinkers that would split off from the main ancients. Maybe war would ensue.
There were plenty of bad ancients, and they were dealt with. The excuse that Hermes' mental health was the cause is just ignoring everything else and focusing on one thing to justify everything. Here's depression led him to betray all of his people and decide that he is justified in judging if people should live or die.
The ancient civilisation spanned eons, and they had many challenges of their own, this ultimately led to the civilisation they built.
Hermes did whatever he wanted to satisfy his own elvish desires, which broke the rules set for Elpis, which led to the clamity.
Of course the Final Days never happened! It was all a hoax to take away our gunblades! I know my rights! I won't allow these so-called "Final Days' lockdowns to take away my rights! The city-states made it all up to give themselves total power over us, and the Garlean Empire was in on it! That's why they magically "collapsed" before these so-called 'Final Days' even happened! The Alchemists are putting Elixirs in the Botanist gathering spots to turn the Gigantoads gay (for G'raha Tia)!