let’s talk…
Hello everyone I am Jmulls of Jmulls Gaming and welcome to my little corner of the internet!
Walkthroughs, First Impressions, Critique and Reviews for all things video games, by someone who loves video games!
In today’s video, I talk about toxic positivity in Final Fantasy 14 Dawntrail !
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After shadowbringers and endwalker, the msq story wasn't really good. It had its moments, wasn't all bad. But the pacing, especially prior 95 and the dreamland quests, oh man, realm reborn vibes, not bad as an idea but very boring, and yeah… on the other hand, meaningless boring quests as Final Fantasy fans in general, well we're used to it, aren't we. But the dungeons, the new way to show mechanics and the raids, man i love them. Drk suffered a bit true, but as gnb main i have to say, my job feels even better now. (I play every tank) the dreamland zone being an empty zone now doesn't bother me at all, though. But you make a lot of good points and like you i think there will be a good future for ffxiv 😊
Too much Wuk on this. I'll say that unlike most I loved Stormblood more than the previous 2 expansions (not overall, just the later parts of Stormblood). I also loved Endwalker. But Dawntrail felt like something that could have been amazing, but got ruined mostly due to Wuk being the center of the story and too much at that, on top of she just not being that good of a character to focus on imo.
The game itself, I believe it went in a better direction, but not enough to make up to how much the story degraded. But I do hope it keeps getting better and devs keep changing their mind of just listening to the bubble of the playerbase that is coping too hard to not be able to be critical towards a game they love.
The game absolutely wasn't always this formulaic. That mainly started in SB and was really cemented with ShB. Look at some of the ARR and HW content.
I say this any chance I get when it comes to topics like this:
Criticism, done correctly, is love. I love plenty of mid, or even bad, games. And it is because I love them, I will praise AND reprimand them. For a game, or anything really, to survive, it needs creative criticism. For every very real issue, the product rots. And the absolute last thing you want is for the rot to reach the spine. Once it has rotten nigh to the core, it is virtually unsalvageable. If you love something, you will do what you can to keep it healthy. Just as doctors must hurt to heal, so too must fans.
So one problem with dawntrail criticism is one side loves it so much that these kind of people just attack others verbally just for not liking something
Gods my head hurting cause of this fact being revealed to me
You gotta keep your game fun. Sometimes that means calling out the games shortcomings…… like hats for every new race…….
One of the things I’d like at this point is a realm reborn 2. Not narratively, but on the technical side. The back-end “spaghetti code” has been noted as an issue for some time now, how much longer can they work under those constraints?
This is such a cathartic listen both in terms of having healthy expectations for Dawntrail’s future and not being afraid to say what is plaguing FFXIV. Now that isn’t to say that this game will never be any problems worth addressing, or even just toxic positivity is the only issue with the community, but it’s way more valuable to give them good feedback to build off of it and always be honest with the developers even if we really don’t like something. I get the feeling the devs love when we are transparent and constructive, and I hope there’s more of that for Dawntrail and it’s patch cycles. I believe in this games future, and doing so by not just blatantly blowing away criticism by calling people naysayers, and not just calling it irremediably terrible with no chance of being better. Apologies for the rambling, but I couldn’t help but feel so satisfied listening to your thoughts JMulls. Cheers.
It's the emperor new clothes effect. People saying they love wuk lumat and the story are afraid to admit their favorite game they spent 1000hrs was rightfully bad. The players that are criticizing the expansion want to make the game better because they see and called out a naked king.
What toxic positivity? All I see is toxic negativity and quite frankly it's pissing me off. This is just going to far, DT is way better than the community give it credit for. FF14 community is officially dead, nothing but haters and negativity remain, might as well just shut the game down instead of letting the devs cook after everything they just set up in DT. At this point it's tiring and I just want it to end
Agreed. Heck, I paid for the sub and I have the right to feedback about the game. I will STFU if these fanboys/girls funded my sub.
Community are divided in DT and the game has been getting some mixed reviews. Clearly the glory of SHB and EW is history.
The Twitter community is especially bad about this. They are willing to go so far to defend this story that I've seen people say if you dislike Wuk Lamat then you are a "miserable" person. I'm not just talking about the people accusing critics of the character of being bigots, either. There are people who will try to gaslight you into believing you're the problem because "You don't like the energetic, peace loving heroine." It's gross, really.
Nevermind that Wuk has a lot of problems as a character, including being a smothering presence for a ton of people. They can keep yapping, but I refuse to let them have that kind of leverage.
I have a static member that…. yea, nail on the head here.
I can't even finish the story. Nothing to do with the VA,'s they actually did good whenever a scene was actually voiced. But the story is just… dull. I'm also a little bored with the pace of Ff's combat. Maybe I'm just burnt out but I feel like my time with FF is coming to an end and honestly I'm kinda sad about that
I think ff14 community is the games downfall, they don’t allow criticism, which would allow the game to grow. It’s “perfect” for people who live in ff14, the community now is run by erp creeps and gate keepers
I see two complementary ways to make dungeon less boring, even on the long run:
-Using the RE2 remake difficulty adaptibility system based on the team performances. If during the first wall to wall they're y good, the next wall could be a lot harder, same for bosses. We could have high level difficulty dungeon (except for Sastasha that should remain a baby's first tutorial dungeon)
-Giving more interesting rewards for exploring them even if you know them by heart, with level based chest instead of a chest with that F*cking stuff that even to exchange for FC company point isn't worth waste an inventory slot.(that function would be off course desactivated during an unsync run)
I criticize the games I love precisely because I care about them, and I want them to be better. Negative feedback is as important as positive feedback. Both are tools you use to steer the game in a direction that benefits everyone.
6:10 You brought up such good points only to use THAT as your example of a "problem"
1. How is that a problem or to have any actual impact on the story in any way?
2. living memory was impactful because you turn it off, not because it existed as a "surprise" even though it was hinted multiple times and even directly spelled out for us in some text lines before getting there.
What would you propose as a solution to this? Making it so we dont know how much content we are paying for with an expansion?
I straight up lost all alignment with your statements the instant you picked something so pointless and stupid to use as your example of a problem with the game…
Damn FFXIV players, they ruin everything. Like balance and FFXIV.
Being formulaic is not too bad but there are degrees to it.
3 trials an expansion is fine. Having them placed at the exact same level areas (93 first trial, 99 second trial, 100 last trial) is a bit too much.
It is way to predictable. Even the dungeos are at the same levels, hell even the story beats follow a predictable pattern. I can expect lvl 99 quest to go wild in the story, i can predict when a long stretch without any duty arrives etc.
Change can be good or bad. They reworked the instances this expac and it was very well received. But their overhaul of the MSQ formula – not so much. What is puzzling is that in the case of the MSQ they broke with a formula that was very successful for them in ShB and most of EW and replaced it with something I'm not sure anyone was asking for.
I didn't like the DT MSQ. But lumping people who defend the story into the toxic positivity camp isn't helpful. Even if a few people have been rude and dismissive with me about it, I have to assume good faith as the starting point and wait to be proven wrong. They might just as well lump me into the toxic negativity camp because I didn't like it.
Fair take. I did find the toxic negative voices a lot more prevalent for DT – too many people can't seem to face their disappointment with an okay story with some interesting ideas and an very flawed execution without having to declare it the worst thing ever.
I think Devs would want to take risks and bring new ideas into the game, but in order for them to do that, it need the player feedback AND Square Enix approval.
What I mean about SE approval?
SE is a multi-million dollar corporation, and corporations have like 2 objectives:
– Maximize profits and minimize costs
– Don't make any unnecessary risks
FFXIV was able to be reborn because of being willing to risk anything to recuperate from the financial disaster that was 1.0.
In my opinion, SE is back in that financial comfort zone, and I think they reach the mentality of "If majority don't complain, don't fix it"
The expansion feels like it had several writers, all pulling the story in vastly different directions and wanting to focus on different things. The result is an MSQ that honestly pleased nobody.
I know players like this and its exhausting. They take any slight criticism on the game as a slight on them as a person for enjoying the game, and then they'll rip into you. So funny though, because they're the type to sit on their high-horses and state: "all opinions are welcome!", yeah unless they're ones you don't agree with.
Don't like Wuk Lamat? Now you're a transphobe. (Even though I'm trans??).
I really love seeing how the defense squad is being overly defensive about Wuk Lamat and every single criticism regarding her is instantly seen as transphobia even when most of players have the language in Japanese and don't even know who the voice actors are. They are just professional dick riders for ffxiv and can't see no wrong.
Hi! I agree with you overall. I just wonder what you meant by saying they were taking a risk with the ideas within the MSQ? Because I personally feel like their ideas for the MSQ were solid. Where they went wrong is choosing a junior writer who clearly is incapable of focusing on more than one character (and quite frankly, isn't that good of a writer outside even of that). Genuine question btw, in case it doesn't come across like that!
I don't know if I'd even call this toxic positivity. To me, it's just being delusional. The toxic positivity I've witnessed in the XIV fandom equates more to it having a very warm and friendly fandom on the surface, but you look a little bit deeper and it turns out it's all bullshit. There's a real problem with people in this fandom who want to come across like they care, but actually couldn't give a fuck.
A very recent prime example of this would be the video Cole put out, talking about his recent troubles. Replies to his cry for help varied, but the general message to him was, "shut the fuck up." It's just so fake and two-faced. Don't rock the boat, don't say anything to shatter this very fragile impression of positivity that this fandom has.
All this drama surrounding Wuk Lamat's VA. Some of you need to sort your deep-seated issues out.
The first FC I ever joined, I was completely blanked; my crime being that I play as a male highlander and not one of the more "desirable" races. That really did set the tone for me with how I'd interact with this game going forward.
I'd rather people just be straight with me. I would personally rank the Retail WoW community as being far less toxic than XIV's. Interactions in WoW have been largely positive, and at least the very occasional dicks you come across are open about their dickishness.
Yeah, I dunno about being the vocal minority on this, when I'm struggling to think of one video I've seen where people actually liked Dawntrail. And that one person was talking about 'Smile'. One person.
I would have to push back against the "structure" of how ffxiv and focus more on the quality of that structure. Players didn't have much of an issue in most of the past 10 years. Yeah there were hiccups and such from real world events happening to cause those hiccups but as long as the content in of itself is good there would be no complaints. The 6th zone was never a surprise until Shadowbringers. Heavensward was Azys lla from which the only thing there was Bahumats wife and fighting Thordan. The zone in of itself was only important to lore people and not so much the story. Stormblood was just The Lochs, i.e. the Ala Mhigan main city. From which honestly almost no one even remembers or even cares about.
Shadowbringers made the 6th zone significant by being a visual story telling of what Emet was desiring in his heart for his people. Endwalkers 6th zone was the visual mental abuse Meteion has gone through from absorbing the negativity of thousands of civilizations. The 6th zone of Dawntrail did not sit in the players heart long enough for us to care. Nor did it give lines to each cast member to think about the potential deep ramifications of what they had to do. Shadowbringers had the scions think about what Aumoraut meant to Emet. Ultima Thule had the scions talk to each other about what the zone meant to Meteion. There was no discussion between the cast in Living Memory about what the zone means to take the life of those that seem happy or anything else. The idea of Endless was not even introduced into the players mind until msq lv 98, think about that. The writers of Dawntrail were far to amateur to not only right something really thought provoking but how to pay it off as well. So either they are bad writers or there were structural problems in what way the team wanted the story to go and thought they could pull it off. Well, they couldn't.
Omg i agree so much with you! Its nice af to see someone who can be critical without absolutely hating on it, i LOVE this game with all my heart but some of the community could be far less toxic in terms of gameplay too these ppl that are so burnt out on the game being jerks to everyone new is NOT helping the community at all either so its tit for tat on alot of things
I don't get why people are upset about not seeing more job iteration in Dawntrail; Square literally said MULTIPLE times that 8.0 is gonna be the job identity start.
I LEGIT, was kicked from my FC because I said the PVP in FF14 was dogshit. Reason, "no negativity allowed about the game" These people are such a cancer on the game that its suffocating. "I really want that mech mount from doing PVP but I can't be damned too play that dogshit. I rather buy the red version of it on the market board as a compromise"
Also toxic casuality =)
DT's story pacing and focus were rough.
That isn't to say the MSQ was bad, but it has a lot of problems and creates issues for the next set of expansions as it was ostensibly meant to be the setup for a new larger arc. Instead it became 'Wuk Lamat wants to become the Hokage' the expansion with every other major character development being shrunken or essentially glossed over. This includes the WoL's supposed position as 'mentor' to Wuk Lamat.
I think the issue is more so that people have different ideas of what would make this game better. To me the game being formulaic And job homogenization are good things others are very critical of that game design. To me job balance is very important to others job identity and uniqueness is more important and both sides are very critical and think the other side wants to silence theirs. Some people think everything that developers do is good elders would like to see things be better, but better means different things to different people. We should just keep an open mind and be open to discussions.
Toxic Positivity? You mean who like something and don't easily change their minds about it? This isn't new, nor exclusive to FF14, or games, or culture, and probably not even species. I am sure Dolphins are squeaking about the quality of fish right now.
The reason why jobs are the way they are is because they tried that individuality in HW. Due to it some job not meshing well with others they got kicked or avoided. Did people forget that.
What's important is to not consider anyone who likes dawntrail to be partaking in toxic positivity. Some people just like it, and that's okay. Everyone's opinion needs to be respected, but their actions should still be judged. For example, theres nothing wrong with disliking the voice acting, but harrassing the voice actors themselves is unacceptable. Likewise, it's fine to say thsy you liked the game, but you shouldn't insult people who are just expressing the opinion that they don't
Why even bother with people that complain? Alot of the time you'll just waste your energy bickering amongst each other. Dont worry about the weather, just let the wind blow.
Butt sliders.
The context of this video is even more important than its content. Listen to the way Jmulls feels the need to both preface and follow up any negative comment with half a dozen lines reassuring the audience that he has a positive outlook on the game's present, past, and future. If anybody is ever even suspected of having so much as a negative thought about this game, they're immediately under fire. I've seen people getting doxxed, I've seen people getting actual death threats, if they've said something bad about it.
This is legitimately terrifying. It feels like a cult. Of course everybody on the planet "loves" this game and "loves" Yoshi-P. It's an endless echo chamber of positivity that suffocates anything else. Dawntrail was the first time enough people at one time had a negative experience that there was an actual blip of resistance. But even that was eventually overwhelmed by the toxic positivity.
Finally. An actual conversation.
literally tons of people and big streamers come out criticizing the game with almost no pushback But toxic positivity tho.
Not just with games, just look at political shit in this country people are bat shit crazy you can't critize anything current party does even if it's really fucked up it's very weird behavior
I'm sorry what was this video about again?
You mean the expansion YoshiP said was "throwing things at the wall to see what sticks" isn't perfect?! Heresy!!! 😠
When the map zone died it was a slap to the face tbh they rushed that part so fast unlike everything before it
Literally quit ffxiv for wow and wow classic and a bit of osrs. The game has just become so boring and homogenized. Same content cycle, same dance dance revolution boss mechanics, boring gear progression. The game needs a change up. I miss the old days where it had a wierd mishmash of ideas