Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker is the fourth expansion pack to Final Fantasy XIV, a massively multiplayer online role-playing game developed and published by Square Enix
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I watched your last video. This one is much more thought out and the format is better. Thanks for focusing in on what you were trying to say! I definitely agree that people don't take into account how their words can affect people's experiences.
As someone that has been discouraged from playing more difficult things in games in the past, or more difficult games in general, this is exactly the type of thing that kept me from trying. "it's easy." ultimately, not everything is easy for everyone and saying it's easy can really make people feel bad about themselves and make them think they just suck. Thank you for talking about this. Not enough people do. ❤❤❤
I wish every FC, player, and Discord user would see this and take it to heart.
https://youtu.be/blSXTZ3Nihs Going to drop this here.
Disregarding the occasional troll, when people tell you to "git gud" it's a very short way of telling you to hone your skills and/or acknowledging that you have the capability yet may lack the resolve. Other than that, the FFXIV community (and the game itself really) is the epitome of borderline babying. Aside from playing the game for you, it's unclear what more people that complain want, but I digress.
Those that raid now, didn't just pop fresh out the womb doing so. Suffice to say, EVERYONE including the alleged "elitists" is new at some point. With this in mind, unless someone is hacking your game or something extreme that legit prevents you from doing something, the only thing stopping you is indeed you. Someone saying "mean" things to you is nothing more than an excuse due to the fact that I know not everyone or even most people are going to give you crap. In other words, there's ways around the alleged issue of "mean" people. More importantly, there's ways to achieve your goals in general.
At the end of the day, you either want it or you don't. The only thing stopping those complaining about raiding/elitists are themselves. The content is there if you're willing to put in the time & effort. Nobody is saying it's easy, but it's nowhere near as daunting as those that complain about it make it out to be.
As somebody who has been on both sides, learning from the ground floor and leading parties in high level content, I think it's important to consider a few things before considering people elitist. 1] If you are going into PF solo or with a less-than-full party, the objective of whatever group you join is pretty important. If you are fresh faced and not super great at mechanics, and you join somebody else's party, you might not be the player that person needs for THEIR objectives, for the reason THEY put up the PF. If I have a guy I am teaching to get a clear, and we are enrage ready, with a PF saying "enrage prog" or whatnot, expecting that group to go back to square 1 because you want them to wouldn't be fair. Granted, if they have the trappings of new players welcome and still go full five year old on people then it's warranted to call them elitist. 2] not everybody has the same amount of time to play. During the times of my life where I only had a couple hours a week to raid, having to babysit a person who is struggling is just not feasible. I know many adult gamers who face similar struggles, so not everybody who is hella impatient is doing it with malice. 3] The response of "its easy" is routine for players who have been going for a while. I have been in the mix since HW, and any salty people out there who remember Gordias Savage know what the opposite of easy looks like, but a lot of us HAVE played since dinosaurs roamed the earth and you had to level alt jobs to get flash on WAR. It IS easy to us, so just like new players should get grace for not getting things right away, I ask for grace for us old hats not understanding how ecliptic meteor is particularly complicated compared to Light Rampant. All of this to say, there are elitists in FF14, and softening them up would be good, but there are also toxic casuals in the game and it would be foolish to expect the average raider to bend too far the other way either. Overall great vid, you have great delivery and a good message and I don't think you will be a small creator for long, I hope to see more content on my feed.
why are you in the woods
Thank you for this. It may sound dumb, but I feel seen. I'm wanting to dip my toes into high end stuff and have a partner who is in a static for current raid tier and wants to attempt Ultimates with them eventually. I know he gets frustrated with me when I say I want to do this, that, and the other and not do it because my anxiety goes through the roof. Hell, I'm frustrated with myself. I haven't even gotten around to leveling all my tank/healer jobs because I fear failure and not being good enough, and getting called out for it just for leveling.
The closest I've gotten to high end stuff is EX mount farming, but I'm scared to commit to a static/PF because I don't want to waste people's time when I fuck up. I struggle a bit with mechanics and I know that not a lot of people want to deal with that especially when going through current tier. My partner keeps telling me that "it's easy" and that I should "just do it" but I'm just not like him. I've learned that video guides don't really help me much and I take better to learning through experience. I don't pick up on things right away and I feel dumb even after I've asked what I did wrong and mechanics have been explained to me multiple times and I'm trying my best to understand and execute. I hate feeling like a burden.
I want to pull my weight and not need to have someone hold my hand, but I know that I'm slow so it frustrates me to no end and I'm afraid that I might get kicked out of PF/statics because of my performance. You could make the argument that I just haven't found the right group or that I should just suck it up and git gud as it were, but I don't want to subject a whole group of people to suffer through me bumbling my way through "easy content."
Hello! Would you have a spot open in your static? I'm interested in doing some raiding. I'm new at it.
This video is unfair. While I do agree that communication can be better amongst the player base, your take is one sided and ultimately contributes to lack of constructive criticism and discourages cooperative play.
You begin by discussing players that have “an interest in raiding but limited or no interaction with raiding”. A daunting task for sure. For whatever reason, there was something motivating them to get their feet wet in raiding. You state that these players join PF and give a humble disclaimer about their experience and concerns with the content (i’m assuming savage since you brought up limit cut). “Do it” “It’s easy”. You perceive this as “it’s easy for me”. That is probably true, it is easy for them because they “did it”. This can be viewed as negative, dismissive or elitist but, if we give everyone the benefit of the doubt, this can also be encouraging. If we don’t ever just “do it” we will continue to be anxious/scared irrationally about counting to 4. I know it’s not that simple but practice makes scary mechs easier.
I’m wondering which you prefer, “do it”, “don’t do it”, or complete silence. I agree that there are better ways to say/communicate things, however I don’t think it’s fair to characterize players that speak to new players as being dismissive, putting others down, or impatient. They didn’t say it the way you want so “unintentional elitism”. God forbid someone tries to help your dancer’s rotation to line up with party buffs. “I don’t condone this”. Coaching=mean.
Saying “it’s easy, just do it” in your own words “may help some people”. It didn’t help YOU so it’s “easy for me, you just suck”. I’m genuinely trying to understand your position. You ultimately are trying to make the ffxiv community better while also discouraging cooperative play. First time tanks, first time healers? Say nothing because it’s elitist and only helpful to “some”. You go on to discuss the phrase “Git Gud” YOU “don’t think that response has ever helped someone to play the game” in Dark Souls. I can’t speak for the Dark Souls community but personally, I was told to git gud in sigmascape savage. My healing was unoptimized (very fresh on SCH), my rotation was spaghetti, and I didn’t know how to use the fairy for raid. My co-healer told me that I needed to do better and that I was not playing the job to it’s potential. Initially, I didn’t feel very good about it but I’m glad they said “something” instead of letting me continue to spin my wheels when I could be a better raid member. This interaction was to my benefit and it was up to me to take that information and do something with it or quit because it hurt my fee fees. Not everything communicated (advice or otherwise) is going to make you feel good.
What helps YOU are people who are patient with you. “It’s multiplayer, let’s do it together.” Can the same thing be said for the aforementioned “just do it, it’s easy” player? Who’s to say these same players are not patient or helpful? Even then, there’s players out there to interact with for YOU. “This is the response that I want”. In PF, you are not going to get everything you want. I’m sorry. You can make Youtube videos about how we need to be mindful of how we communicate with each other until the game dies but that just isn’t reality. I would LOVE it if everyone would just do mechs and not be passive aggressive with each other. Take the good with the bad and drive on or only interact with players that think and act exactly like you.
Good luck with raiding. Hope you get tons of loot. I really do mean this. The more people playing the game is a win.
I wish more people would call out elitism in the community. I've experienced A LOT of it in my first year playing, starting from when I just wanted to go through the story and didn't even touch most of the normal raids until after playing through the ShB MSQ. Then about 6 months later (by this point I had done most of the normal raids and a few EXs) Anabeisos dropped and I thought I would try savage for the first time. I started going slowly in party finder until I somehow found myself in a midcore static who were really condescending towards me for not immediately understanding limit cut, and they ended up clearing p9s behind my back and screwing me out of loot for the week. Then they were like "it's ok that you're a slow learner because you have the right attitude" but then changed their minds like a week later and kicked me after not clearing p10s after 9 hours of prog. They all knew I was new to savage, I let them know I had serious anxiety about raiding for the first time, they accepted me into their static knowing that only to break my trust and confirm my absolute worst fears about raiding. It was unironically traumatic for me, especially since a completely unrelated group decided to gang up on me for parsing low and tell me I deserved everything just because of my parses.
I'm getting better. I took a break from raiding and then decided to go back and do some of the older pandaemonium savage raids in order to practice learning mechanics without the threat of enrage. I even decided to play ranged instead of melee so I don't have to stress about uptime. I've met a lot of people who are way less elitist and it's given me hope that maybe the community isn't as toxic as I initially thought. I don't know why I wrote all of that, I don't really have any advice to people, I just wanted to share my story.
Very well done man, you put the script to good use making this video
Hi, achievement junkie who doesn't raid here. At the end of Shadowbringers, I went back and tackled the Stormblood raid series (for the clear # achievement strings) and that was… ok actually! Hello World and Kefka Skulls were a bit tough to pull off, but my groups managed to get everything without too much difficulty. Fast forward to Endwalker and I decided to go back and tackle some of the Eden stuff and uh…
Haha. Yea. I started looking at some of those 'flowcharts' for certain mechanics and I just… couldn't. My brain turned to literal mush trying to figure out Light's Rampart for Shiva, or even worse 'Dwayne The Rock Johnson' for E12S. And from what I've seen, this raid series is even more convoluted 🙁
But expressing sentiments like that in discord servers (even ones for fellow completionists), usually made me the subject of ridicule.
Thank you very much, the first thing I heared years back when I wanted to try raids ever I was told "No your damage is too bad". I was really new to that game and tried to find my way with everything still back then. By now I am a main healer but still stay away from hard content because I always fear that ppl will hate me and tell me I am too bad for it. So thanks for this video, it does give some hope.
if people put half as much effort into ACTUALLY TRYING as they do crying and screaming everything be handed to them on a silver platter, maybe they'd actually succeed
Not related to raiding, but..
I noticed in NA duty finder, people are way more in a bum rush compared to other regional centers to complete content. Even when they have sprouts who may be new to supportive roles like healing or tanks. They try to give advice to go sanic fast in dungeons to the sprout, when the sprout may just want to go slow.
Going at the preferred pace of tanks/healers has become more of a novelty than the norm in NA DF pugs, and that shouldn't be the case, gang. This is why Duty Finder for DPS can sometimes take ages for us.
In regards to unintentional elitism, where they say "oh to me it's easy" or however they perceived it is THEIR problem. They are projecting how they think you mean it. Just like reading a message and assuming the tone is angry. That is not on the person who says something easy, that's on the listener. Calling someone elitists for letting them know it's not as hard, is worse. You are basically complaining cause you ir someone you know took something the wrong way.
Honestly the community as a whole needs to toughen up buttercup.
As a long time 14 player i totally agree with you.
Yes raiding is easy but saying this and going in with the ppl who are afraid of it is a complete diffrent thing. But ppl seems to ve more worried to lose there afk spot in limsa than "wasting" some time with ppl.
I do agree with this! I don’t even leave comments on videos! I thought I was the only one.
I agree! But no, Darks souls doesn't need an easy mode. The devs intended it to be played that way and the shouldn't change. If game developers tried to appeal to everybody, we wouldn't have unique games.
so many people tend to say things like "git gud" or "it's easy" and not realize that their words come off as demeaning and demoralizing. it might seem like the "right thing to say," but it's not encouraging or supportive at all to people who are learning. It's very gatekeep-y.
I think you had a good point to start out with but seemed to just really end up with "My friend got told to improve their damage, now everyone else is bad".
Unfortunately, I do believe sometimes people should be free to criticize your play in a party finder setting especially because you are now taking up 7 other people's times and this one sided argument is basically in favor of wasting their time to appease a single player. I've been playing since ARR, I raid and I got better by actually asking during those early days, I was also called bad by a few people way back during the BCOB days but most of them are more than willing to sit with you and sift through your logs or help you improve in some way.
I don't think this is all a community/ player problem, but more of a "this game doesn't really teach you how to play" and all the resources to learn HOW to properly play are almost all of it tied to one of the worst discords tied to FFXIV where almost every 'mentor' there has as much ego as they have every -phobia known to mankind behind closed doors. This is kind of an unfortunate reality when it comes to this game. The community is some of the friendliest around as long as you stay somewhat surface level and interact with a minutia of players – but once you get into raiding and the harder content, it becomes very typical MMO-centric.
On the actual point you were making with regards to your friend there – I recently myself stopped by to help a Zero EX party and one of the dancers that joined via PF never once used Technical Step, something that is utterly unacceptable at this level of content you are attempting to tackle. When you are talking about a 2% enrage, simply blaming your teammates for dying too often, while true, does not negate the fact that if your friend was able to play at a better level, that would have 100% been the kill. I think being critical of your own play is often how you improve, regardless of others' performance. If I played like trash and the boss enraged by 1% – despite other people dying, if I had NOT played like trash, they would have been dead.
TL,DR: Less blaming of others, more striving to improve yourself.
I can see your point, it’s completely valid.
I usually tell people that there are going to be people who will want to help you learn how to do it, and my FC is a group that has helped people. I’ve seen absolutely massive strides in friends who used to be completely afraid to play anything harder than MSQ stuff.
Endwalker savages have been horrible, Had way more fun in shadowbringers. It's caused alot of toxic behavour.
A better example of what someone saying “Don’t worry, it’s easy” or “It’s not too bad” is trying to say is that a complicated or scary mechanic is a lot more palatable when you break it down into very simple steps. “Move here, then here, break tether and pass Rot” is a hell of a lot more simple than “Here’s the entire rotation of Hello World in TOP P3 from start to finish.” If you only focus on what you have to do moment to moment, it’s a lot less daunting than thinking about the entire picture.
what I meant in that comment is you need to embark the journey yourself, the community does not owe you anything, you aren't entitle to anyone helping you.
or maybe it's the region that I'm playing with, I'm on JP datacenter. so people does not mind at all when you jump into a prog pf. it's as easy as that here.
and that the friendliest community is true on the casual side but on the raiding scene? nah man it's not as bad as other raiding oriented games but on that good with flying color either.
and yes you are expected by ppl in any A2C or reclear party to perform on some level bc ppl aren't have that much time man I'm on full time employment 1 food is enough. then saying this is elitism? nah I don't think so.
to add at that this is the best raiding community I have seen so far man, for any of you guys who's still has raid anxiety, you have to reach out. I do believe that there are countless ppl who glad to help. but again depend on their availability and interest you cannot go fully 'I came from casual and you guys need to cater me to the end even tho I don't give any flying about my rotation and mechanic' nah any commu aren't going to put up with that. you need to do at least half way your own improvement and research. there are some complexity there too. maybe they aren't playing the same role as you do and they cannot give you a full on inputs.
About raiding is easy still yes, I think it's objectively true. it's not 'it's easy for me', ye you need to dive into raiding rabbit hole. but if you watch guides and put all of it in generality, it is easy for the most raid. except for some raid like last gate of the tier like p8s p12s e12s e8s, ye those are kinda hard. and ultimates are always hard so get familiar with savages first then try prog.
good luck out there.
but its actually easy if you take a breather and break down the mechanic is easy steps to follow instead of watching the guide 12 times without ever stopping to figure out what you actually have to do