Xeno reacts to an interview by Inverse titled FFXIV’s Toughest Dungeons Are Here to Stay — If Players Want Them. In this video Mr. Ishikawa goes over the process of designing Variant and Criterion dungeons and some plans for Patch 7.0 – Xeno also rants about the state of Savage Criterion Dungeons.
Original article: https://www.inverse.com/gaming/ffxiv-variant-criterion-dungeons-interview
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This is why I do not do the Criterion Dungeons – the time investment is not worth the reward. I did the first one, then never touched it again. If they gave raid gear or a twine, whatever, upon completion or a token to get it, then it would be useful since you can upgrade a tome piece or whatever; however, to me the time does not equal the reward you get.
IMO, it is an interesting way to look at dungeons and sounds great on paper, but………the reward is shite. Gearing is the issue in a game about gearing classes, like wtf. While I have been raiding since Stormblood, it doesn't seem like the gearing system is going to improve unless Xeno himself makes the game.
I love the criterion dungeons, but im gonna boycot it until they put in more than fucking materia!
i would like variant roulette, would give a reason to actually run it after completion
It's why I have been debating on finally leaving FF14. They can't do what they have to do they think the rewards from criterion are worth it. I don't know what Yoshi and the team are smoking but they are slowly falling apart
I hope Xeno is able to attend the DawnTrail Media Tour because I'm imaging whenever he asks Yoshi P any questions; Yoshi P just pulls up the VODS/YT videos and says "I'll get to".
Perfect timing, I needed something to watch during cardio. 💪🦵
If they are gonna give us lame rewards at least make criterion the standards for dungeons from now on- I don't like to be served some overglorified dungeon to get max grade materia as a reward.
I want square to just rip Trinkets from WoW. Just put them exclusively in savage crit dungeons. They're some of the funnest, most game breaking things in WoW.
Put raid tier gear in savage version so that way people can gear more jobs during a current tier. And that doubles as more glam for glam people. Madness. They also missed the opportunity to link the variants with the current relic set farming "oh that needed meteor there's an old scroll mentionning it being in these old ruins under Uld'ah". I mean seriously the idea is definitely not bad but the execution is very underwhelming.
Variant shouldn’t be its own roulette. It should just be part of 50/60/70/80 roulette. For that matter, DT needs to redo roulettes altogether imo.
i will never understand why people need a carrot on a stick to do content the problem isnt no content the problem is there is no reason to really do it. but i dont do content for rewards, i do it for completion. in other news i kinda wonder if the interview was mostly referring to japanese players because they have a different mindset than other players. Japanese players might play the content way more just because they like the challenge. and i think there was something where japanese players didnt like tue idea of savage gear anywhere outside of savage so they will probably never do that
I did variant dungeon one time. Found out the reward structure was ass and haven’t ran another since. If they offered gear, maybe 10 ilvl less than raid gear or crafted, I would run it.
I think they should get rid of the savage criterion as it is, make normal criterion the savage version (just keep the difficulty as it is now) and make somethinge between variant and criterion.
It would introduce alot of people to harder content abd in my opinion criterion is already on par with savage so it doesnt need a even harder version.
With the in between solution, they could chance some mechanics of bosses and fill the gap between variant thats piss easy and criterion that feels like savage.
So in short: get rid of criterion savage (ASSS) and replace it with a extreme version.
Rewards are a different disscussion
Eureka was still wildly relevant when bozja released. And bozja was heavily populated during endwalker initial release.. I don’t see how they missed how long lasting and impactful the adventuring forays truly are..
They didn't need to make criterion so much more different than regular dungeons. The dungeon formula in the game, when it's followed faithfully (it hasn't been) is really solid and fun and replayable.
Here's how I would have designed "savage dungeons" in 14.
Step 1.) Just make a regular fucking dungeon. Three sections of 2 sets of 2 mob packs and a boss.
Step 2.) Each of these sections has an enrage from first touching trash to boss death.
On the enrage: This enrage is loose because of class imbalance, but tight enough that you can't be ice maging your way through. The trash will also enrage if you fall behind enough on DPS that you won't have enough time on the boss. The boss's HP is lowered as a result (I wanna say it takes 2 minutes to kill the boss itself on average). Because of SE doubling down on the shitty 2m design, when you enter the boss arena all your cooldowns and resources are reset. If you wipe in the section anywhere, you are taken to the beginning of the section with all trash revived. If someone dies, you can still revive them and hope to beat the DPS check.
Step 3.) Add mechanics back to trash. Some mobs enrage after a certain point so you must single target them down instead of AoEing the pack. Some mobs will cast a massive raidwide if you don't stun or silence them. Some mobs literally cause AoE lightshows to dodge. There is nothing inherently wrong with the "pulling them all to a wall and then bursting them all down", but you gotta add things that make it interesting.
Step 4.) Mechanical focuses on dodging instead of puzzle solving in boss fights. Think Tower of Zot final boss. That fight is fun as fuck and honestly it's kind of baffling how much better it is than most EX fights or even some savage fights. Even when the fights become predictable because you've done it a bunch, the replayability comes from minmaxing your uptime on the bosses and figuring it out for all the different classes you take into it. Stop giving us giant ass hitboxes and make us work for our uptime. That's what makes this combat fun!
Step 5.) Give us fucking rewards and shake up the endgame progression. The reason why everyone was pissed that the Gordias weapon was matched by the relic weapon was because of the difference in effort and prestige to get it. People don't have a problem with getting endgame gear from places other than savage, and you still already have a working formula of some BiS being from savage and some BiS being from tomes. I bring this up because ever since outroar then, SE has adopted a very rigid formula for progression for fear of losing their core players. There's no reason to not add another third. If you wanted to force the weapon and body from savage to always be BiS so people are required to beat the tier to get BiS, sure, go for it, but it would be fun to have more sources of BiS so we're not just locked into a tome grind. Even back in Creator when we got proto ultima accessories, that little tiny pittance of extra gear made a whole lot of difference in making endgame gearing a bit more engaging after everything was stale. There's no reason we can't make the new savage dungeons do the same thing.
If Criterion doesn't drop any gear, then why it doesn't have strict item level sync like in Unreals? What were they thinking?
Now I’m worried they’ll just make 3 sets of v&c dungeons every expansion and that will be the permanent replacement of exploration zone content
With so many people maxing their character to 90.
Having gear locks or trickling slows down gearing alt jobs to a standstill
Two expansions ago id argue against more end game gear….but with the amount of classes we have currently and the current formula… its not cutting it.
When is more gear ever a bad thing when your new content is not worth playing to keep old content relevant. Lol wut??? As if players will just stop doing content logging in to do one thing..😂
They don't even give a unique glamour set. I understand that they have the purchasable set (or sets), but that's from the base dungeon, and you can't even slap on a new glam to "brag" that you did the new savage dungeon.
Also in the regards to the design differences, with your 8man savage raids, which I feel should be the base to compare to as that's what they're supposed to be difficulty wise you have a relatively standard party composition. The tanks are just what ever tanks are there, but you're probably going to have one shield and one pure healer, and you're going to have one melee, phys range, and magical range for the extra stat boosts from having each role. So say we have targeted aoes. They know in most cases, they're going to have 3-4 people who need to be within melee range to keep attacking, and the rest can be at range. So they can design the arena and specifics of the mechanic (size of aoe, does it leave a puddle, etc) around that. As well as if there is anything else happening while that mechanic is going out, and have the mechanics feel "fair". I.E it's not locking people out from hitting the boss or being in range of the party entirely. They an also plan damage before/during/after said mechanic around having both a healer to top people off, and provide shields to soak incoming damage.
Now, if this is a 4 man dungeon, whose party comp is a bit more restricted, things can get a bit more dicey. You can't having something that NEEDS shields on parties to survive or it will cause a wipe because oh crap, you have white mage. You also can't have too much back to back to back damage because the shield healers may not be able to keep up with that, and that's not getting into the slight, but still significant difference between tank kits. Then you could need to balance around having both range dps or both melee dps and making sure players can easily move in/out when they need to.
While it might not seem that much more difficult the restriction of the party comp means they have a lot smaller window to work in to get it right.