Like many others, I’m a bit disappointed with Summoner in Final Fantasy XIV’s newest expansion, Dawntrail. This job just deserves to be better; but how would I change it?
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Outro Song: Strange Fantasy – Chaxti
Music Provided by Epidemic Sound
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 Introduction
1:50 Current Summoner and Why Being Simple is Good
4:56 What Summoner Could Be
7:25 The Shortcomings of Current Summoner…
8:53 … And How to Make Them Better
24:20 Outro
source
Summoner is just like…the job that could be…and it fell so flat so fast. It is really great for beginners, it is not demanding if you are looking to play a job that allows you to learn say, an EX or a Savage fight, it has utility…so I mean at face value, great. But there is really no "WOW" in the job. I mean Bahamut, Pheonix, Solar Bahamut…great. But where is Shiva, Leviathan, Ramuh? Why can't they give summoner something more unique that brings something else out? I mean in FFXI summoner had SO much they brought to the table, hell for a while they were THE job. Here, they just feel so flat.
Still going through the video (at 11:30), but my biggest ick with this expansion is how clearly it feels they ran out or gave up with what to do. The way Phoenix occurs on every other odd minute for really no reason at all. To correct this, the way they even upped Phoenix damage to make it equal to a Demi-Bahamut. The current placement of Phoenix further removes its utility purpose when it was already an incredibly niche thing to rely on and incapable of planning as a defensive. Their second awkward 'correction' to this, being an incredible niche OGCD heal from Solar Bahamut, but you only have 30s to use it…
FF11 is a tough act to follow.
I also think all the summons, not just the demis, should stay on the field and auto-attack. It makes it feel like more of a pet class and can give SMN just a bit more DPS.
I will saw I am always weary of refresh abilities or any ability where one class can restore the MP of another. Mostly because I play BLM and messing with MP economy can completely warp the rotation. Unless you meant a refresh for the SMN only.
Tbf, I'm kinda baffled at how much SMN is of a wasted potential despite having so cool foundations. I personally quite like the concept behind EW SMN, and respect that it's an easy to play job (thx for people like me with wrists issues).
But ye, it could definitely be more interesting, and DT isn't it. First off, I don't understand why we still have ARR primals, when Eden ones are mostly of our design, and second, why Phoenix's phase isn't Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan like you suggested, and be more support oriented. Tho, I'm not a big fan of going for primals like Alexander/Odin, but I also have a huge irk against Solar Bahamut not being a direct upgrade of base Bahamut. Why? Because it's Bahamut fused with Hydaelyn of our creation (like our Ramuh is fused with Ixion), and imo you could do something really stylish: Lunar Phoenix doesn't exist, and we could make one of our own creation that isn't twisted, fused with the Oracle of Darkness (and Meteion if you want), and be an Umbral aspected upgraded counterpart.
BUT BUT BUT, I really like your idea of having both happening in the same minute, in whichever order and up for skill expression, and having another form of actual burst phase. Like, I'd imagine us summoning our own interpretation of Azem (… well, us) as a Primal. After all, we were the one mingling with both Hydaelyn (thus, Solar Bahamut) and Zodiark (Lunar Phoenix 👀), so summoning a (seat of sacrifice inspired) Warrior of Light Azem would be wild.
I also had in head having another ogcd spell, but buff?, enabled when you get to summon each Primal, but this one would be able to be used after the summon phase ended, for all 8 of em. With a spell we could call "Magnum Opus", that'd start the burst phase and get all those ogcd buffs and an Azem phase, then proceeding to the choice of either Baha & Phoenix, etc…
Maths are a bit wonky, but you could do a lot tbf to add some flaire!
The way SMN is now just makes me wish they didn't go with the GCD system with ARR, and used some variation of the ATB system.
It would have been nice if we could have got Shiva, Leviathan or Ramuh.
They should reskin picto into a new SMN, with summons instead of painting things, I'd be happy with that.
I agree. Summoner used to be my favorite class. The removal of the DoTs and the pet management really reduced my interest in the class.
Yoshi P and dev team on FF16: ok, let’s make and do our best to have the main character be a bad ass Smn
Yoshi P and dev team on their Smn for XIV DawnTrail: …..this the best we can do, let’s keep it ‘accessible’ for any newer players looking to pick up a caster
I loved the class in Endwalker. Easy and fun rotation,huge damage in AOE pulls. I think it should remain the same but the needed to add a new kind of skill or upgrade to summon better ESPERS not just reskin Bahamut.
SE just giving us another Bahamut(yes everyone knows what Solar actually is but still..) instead of new egis is insane to me. I truly don’t know why they are so terrified of just giving us another set of Egis to use.
I want a class that focuses on using Dots and that used to be kind of smn.
Now I don't see a reason to play black mage when pictomancer and red mage exists. And the only upside for smn is they have a rez. And I'd rather not be brain dead while playing a class.
But I also understand the class isn't for me and that's okay. I'm just frustrated with where it is now compared to the limited time I had with it in shadowbringers.
Ifrit Garuda titan bahamut, Shiva rhamu leviathan Phoenix,
Sephirot Sophia zervan lunar bahamut
Odin and Alexander as a 90 second ogcd
Simply reskinning the summons while tweaking the amount of mobility and useless filler utility you have won't fix the glaring issue of having no job mechanics to speak of.
Summoner got me into the final fantasy series. FFXIV has such a weird relationship to the summoner job from dot mage to one button wonder. The endwalker rework had so much potential but with how things are going with its DT version I’m a bit concerned. And who asked for solar bahamut? When has bahamut ever healed in final fantasy? I hope that in 8.0 we get more summons because the current direction is not it.
I hate to say it but I do wish it was a pokemon trainer lol. When I summon ifrit I want ifrit out for 30 seconds. I want pet options commanding my summon not me just casting. I want my summon fighting with me.
They need to add Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan Egis to the Pheonix rotation. I thought they would have done this in 7.0 but no we get a new lame Bahamut graphic.
edit: Rotation would be better if it was Bahamut -> fire, earth, wind, Phoenix -> ice, lighting, water, ODIN final cut (or have another rotation with Alex and another grand summons followed by ODIN).
They've been trolling the player base with new egis since heavensward. The removal of pets killed any hope the job had.
i miss dot summoner, Tri Disaster was my fav skill 🙁
Pssst. Summoner should't be mobile. You play any of the other games and summoner seems like that…a summoner.
Well well well, if it isn’t the Red Robin waitress who told everyone I did the MS Paintjob in the Sharlayan Forum bathroom.
They should turn summoner into something like 16. Unlock the “summon” abilities and go that route if adding new summon demis is too much for them. At this rate the level 100-110 skills are just going to be new ifeit/titan/bahamut skills or something. Nothing new to add just build on what’s there.
ive been saying almost exactly this i love the idea of building to either alexander, or odin, and using the other primals, but id also like to see carbuncle get more use. i see no reason not to give it some off global egi attacks, and let us have the pet style back with just carbuncle, but it never goes away during our big summons. maybe that would be too op, but i think it would be cool, and really help me feel like im a summoner
That beard+hair combo 🥵❤️
Ppl waxing about how amazing dot management was are living in lala land. The build you remember was clunky, illogical, no clear vision and a hodgepodge of several expansions class designers having their own ideas stiched together.
Looking at timers and not letting them hit 0 was peak gaming design in 2010. Its 2024. Grow up.
My routes were going:
– Carby Utility added: Either give something for Carby to do like generate a small HoT zone or a mini sacred soil or you can Jump to you Carby like a Ley Line
– Utility OGCDs added: These are more Summon dependent but can be giving you or a party member some buffs (Titan would give a 5% damage reduction, Ifrit a 1% damage buff, Garuda increased Move speed for 5 seconds) depending on your Summon more in the line of Rekindle or can be more like the Picto motifs if you want to do it in a more cash it and spend it when needed format.
– Alternate Summon Spender added: There's Ifrit Dash, maybe another button for melee Ifrit Backdash, you can spend 2 Titan Stacks for a party shield
– Just add 4 Fleche/Contre Sixte-like damage OGCDs to make it like Dragoon or something, there's space in the hotbar for sure
If they really want to keep the 3 current Summons.
honest opinion, just make bahamut or phoenix as i can choose either one.
I would love to play SMN, its my fav job class fantasy wise but rotation is not fun, it's both boring and rigid. I used to think the solution to Summoner is giving them more buttons but Picto made me rethink that approach.
Bonus issue with Solar is that whole Summon was added yet it doesnt shift the way class plays at all, which is bad on its own but it's double bad when we are talking a job that already gets feedback that there is no variety between the summons… cause tbh Garuda and Titan also are very sameish, it's just 1 gimmick spell + bunch of instant cast, i feel like what could work better here was giving Lighspeed to Slipstream and make other skills have cast time, just with Garudas having lower recast, say 1 sec with 1,50 recast and Titan being 1,50 with 2,5 recast so you have your weave window still, this way you retain most of the mobility and you have agency over your instacasts.
And going by your idea of astral/umbral summons I would also think about giving remaining 3 some new effects, per example Ramuh leaving balls around you can pick up for some buff(ie to mimic the Lightspeed each ball would grant 1 swiftcast, stackable), Shiva granting icebite buff that increases damage you deal, Leviatan could per example have some dashes or teleports to mimic his zoomies from the OG trial. The rotation is still easy, but it introduces the ceiling in how to utilise your summons best per fight segment, rather than having set rota because of potencies/buff alignment basically forcing summon order.
Hell, you could even have a button to swap attunement, so you can have the trio you think fits at will or you could just have the full sunset-sunrise loop. I feel like both could work and be fun potentially.
Oh, and carby doing ANYTHING at this point would be nice.
picto is what I wanted smn to be beforehand. Indeed wonder how 8.0 will change smn.
Smn job quest, failed summoning Ramuh & Shiva, so lore wise Smn can't. Or our WoL isn't able to at least.
Your iteratio is very meticulous, I think Leviathan phase would be my fav for small casts and party support, but Ramuh dealing massive aoe damn that sounds great too.
Also extremely nice hair, so jealous lol. Enjoy your vacation man, cheers.
A lot of jobs need help. Aside from WAR and MCH this expansion has been a disaster job wise
I just want shadowbringers summoner back. Or even better, give us a 3rd arcanist class to make up for the loss of the other summoner.
Scholars that get bored of pressing one button get this class for free so they had to make it… as simple as possible. Makes sense not
The way i would like to see it done is by focusing whole rotation around the idea of polarities itself as all elements can be found in either Umbral or Astral state according to lore. As sutch i would procced as follow : i would leave the flow of rotation itself as it is now but i would replace normal bahamut with new version of the lunar one and pair it up with redesigned solar one, i would also either add new lesser summon or rework cabuncle to specificaly serve as starting point of the rotation, this would then be followed by summoning one of the two bahamuts allowing you channel its aspected Aether and essentialy chose which of the two polarities to apply to your next six summons with either phonix or new demi placed in between each triad of the elements to allow for smooth transition between them.The polarity mechanic would then cause skills availabe for each of the lesser summons to change depending on which polarity you chose . Then as you progress trough both polarieties of the rotation each complitted summon would grant a token for total of either 12 or 14 (depending on whether phoenix or new demi would also be affected by polarity ) then once two full rotaions are complite a massive summon should be unlocked as finisher to either be used right at the end of second passage by replacing starting carbuncle summon or for third passage whitch would give you acces to empowered versions of basic six summons becasue why not XD
FF really needs to ditch gauges and focus more on class identity. The more unique aspects about a class is what will draw people to play them and something FF14 lacks severely. The lore is perfect, the class identity story-wise is perfect, but God does playing them feel lack luster in their identity given you are following the same gauge formula every single class and job has.
So, going off your idea here just a bit.
I like the Aether tuning, so a slight adjustment. Move Shiva and Titan to their respective Astral and Umbral sides and give us the choice of summoning Solar Bahamut (Astral) or Lunar Phoenix (Umbral). So now the player has the choice of long cast bars (Shiva and Ifrit) in Solar to start, or movement with the instant cast Umbral summons. Then, like Monk's rotations, once both Astral and Umbral pips are filled out, have the big summon (on a 2min), be the Alexander or Odin, whichever, and do away with regular Baha/Phoenix (upgrade them or something idc lol).
I would want to stray away from one doing more damage than the other, since that just creates the illusion of choice instead. So there would have to be some form of balance between the two to avoid that.
I think that'd be a solid path forward for the Job, that does allow for further iterations like having a different Aethercharge depending on Lunar or Solar, which leads to an oGCD off of Ruin IV or something along those lines. But definitely more summons!!