I HATE Door Bosses In FFXIV Endwalker… overused gimmick that has overstayed its welcome… This video is very much based upon a bias I have built, and is merely made for entertainment purposes but I was curious if anyone agrees with me..?
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Some things I forgot to mention in my script… A door boss is basically a "mini boss" you fight before the real boss, and it has a checkpoint… so if you wipe to the real boss, you won't have to start at the door boss again. Nowadays we call these 2 bosses, phases… phase 1 (door boss) and phase 2 (real boss)… the problem is back in Stormblood these Door bosses were short and sweet… in Endwalker, these door bosses last like 8 minutes or so…
Sorry I forgot to put this in my script, its really annoying when you forget something which is important to mention but just don't??? HATE myself sometimes ><
I think Door Bosses are fine when they feel as badass as O4S, but they should be used sparingly. E4S is probably the best non-door boss encounter though. It still kinda has a transformation in the middle of the fight but it doesn't take you out of the fight as much.
My main issue with FFXIV dungeon design is how restrictive it is. If the dungeons were built like actual puzzles to really immerse the player, dungeons would be more likely one of my favorite things to do.
I'm a FF11 vet and the dungeons in that game are opened to the rest of the community. For people who don't understand this, its an dungeon that anyone can zone in. Dungeons were not just dungeons, they locked you out of progression into other parts of the game. Where you enter a dungeon in FF11, you will exit to different places depending on your path. Dungeons felt connected, fun, and adventurous.
Lets take an example of one of my favorite dungeons in FFXI: Garlaige Citadel.
Soon as you enter Garlaige Citadel, you are greeted to a maze where the floors have caved in and if you were to fall into one, you fall into an area that houses mobs way above your level. As you navigate though the hall of debris and falling structures, you come to a door that is locked. This door is called "Banishing Gates". Next to the big gate, lined up against the walls, there are four weight switches, suited for someone to stand on. You step on one and it slowly falls with a click at the end. Though the gate hasn't budged, when you step off of the switch, the bottom starts to reset itself back into its original position. Something is telling you that maybe if all four switches were pressed, then the gate should open. Regularly, you would see other players who are also roaming the dungeons. Some have EXP Parties to level up and some are working on quest. You shout in chat if 3 players could spare a moment to help with opening the massive door. 3 players meets up at your location and all 4 steps on each switch. With 4 clicks, the gate beings to swing open. The gate holds for just a minute, just enough time to run through quickly. You wave bye and thank the players for helping and you proceed through the gate to move the story forward.
This is what an open dungeon is. So much can be done in those areas while giving you the options to take on story bosses or boss challenge with some awesome loot. FFXIV has became so streamline til it just became hollow. I spoke about this two years after ARR released to a forum of people and got slaughtered. Now my voice is actually being heard. Things I've said years prior has started to really show the player base what I was preaching about. FFXIV 1.0 to me is the real game because it kept alot of what FFXI did so well. It was rushed by a corporation that didn't care about its loyal fanbase in the FFXI community because we dreamt of a modern experience and we almost got that.
I was there during all patches of 1.0 and i slowly started to see the game turned into 2.0 under yoshis management. That game no longer became the experience we FFXI community we was hoping for.
Absolutely agree with that!
I feel like the door boss structure is a bit too successful, where the worst its gotten is P8S being overtuned and pretty grueling, which isn't a fault of the actual structure of the fight itself.
Also think its probably nice for the developers. They get to focus on just a couple mechanics, and each phase can be really different from each other so they don't necessarily feel constrained to one "theme". Probably easier to design mechanics for two 7 minute fights than one 14 minute fight. However, because of the checkpoint, I feel like that's also given them liberty to crank the difficulty way up, to the point where every single mechanic is a body check, which can be really frustrating. When even a mistake in "filler" mechanics can cause a wipe, I think its going too far. Also even though its cool on the surface that the second phase is mechanically completely distinct, it is also frustrating that you basically go all the way back to total blind prog, there's no transferrable knowledge at all.
They could address those issues while keeping the same structure, though I'd like to see some experimentation. Variety for its own sake is worth doing, especially since the last 4 final tiers have had this exact structure.
I still dont get what is it that you hate about door bosses? Exdeath and Kefka felt epic… is that it? the rest got old? should they have stopped doing the transformations? what is the difference between a a door boos and a transformation?
It does feel pretty horrible progging on a fight more difficult than any other in the tier (usually including the actual final fight), knowing you won't actually get anything out of it. Add on top of that how either part of that 4th fight will usually feel incomplete or rushed in some way, and it just isn't an enjoyable experience, especially since it's so formulaic now. It'd be really interesting to see the occasional return of a 5 fight raid tier, even if they do something wild and give us another fight like Turn 3, which I don't even think would be a bad thing. Raiding feels too clinical and "efficient" now to me, whereas raiding use to feel a lot more social. Some downtime while raiding isn't necessarily bad, though obviously it should be kept in check.
Raiding definitely just needs more variance though. Trash before a fight can work every now and then if done well (like T10, which was really fun imo), same as doing another fight like A2S. It'd be nice to see AoE-centric situations in hard content again. Similarly I want to see fights with mechanics where individual players can carry again with unique roles. Stuff like the Gobwalker mount in A2S, or the gorilla in A5S, or the towers in T8, or the floor buttons in A10S, or even the Renard kitting from T7.
I get they wanted to get away from having one person be "mechanic bitch", and not all fights should be designed that way, but it feels like a unique tool that's been lost in current raid design. Also I desperately want to see another gauntlet fight like A6S, or even just the return of the duty action occasionally, O2S and O6S had fairly interesting applications of it. Again, I don't want to see that in all fights, but SE have cut off so many potential tools they can use it's really harmed the uniqueness of raid fights. I'd massively prefer for SE to try unique things and have a few misses rather than everything feel the same.
It is indeed annoying. They could have just ,make 5 raids instead of 4 and a surprise but from a business perspective, this is a good way to drag players time since its 2 phase.
Yeah I reallyed loved the stormblood and shadowbringers raids, they were fun 😀 I do like the endwalker ones, but I definitely can agree with the door bosses.
Not all door bosses but all EW savages were awful, I've never quit the game in the past and EW was the 1st time I quit the game to play ''WoW'' Imagine. Savage in EW was so boring, thanks god they made DSR and ToP which are the only two pieces of content that made me sub and the second I cleared them I left. But the fights aren't the only issue, jobs became so boring to death and if they keep going the path of making jobs braindead and boring then i can't see a bright futur for raiding in ffxiv
I don't see the Faust robots as "Door Bosses", more Adds/Trash fights. They don't really have mechanics compared to Exdeath and Kefka and they more of function as DPS checks.
I'm fine with Door Bosses tbh. On the flip side, when E4S and E8S was current, it was pretty demoralizing to wipe 10 minutes into a 14 minute fight. That's reaching Ultimate levels of length for a Savage.
Please please do not bring back trash fights for a raid. I don't want to waste time running through a hallway and smack something in my way for 5 minutes just so I can fight the main boss. There's a reason why the Binding Coils and early Alexander raid design aren't done that way anymore.
Nah Nah, hold that energy, EW is the worst expansion, I'm with it, I love it, pop off my dude!
As someone who doesn't really have time and energy for savage raiding, it is bit disappointing to getting nothing but the door boss as the "highlight" at the end of a raid tier set. All the ones in Endwalker felt half-done, same feeling I got from fighting Exdeath back in the day. I know it's supposed to be reward for savage players, but it makes normal mode very lacking as result, it's like getting glorified faust as a boss every tier.
so you dont like phase changes. just say that.
Honestly, I was tired of the "raids are just harder, longer trials" formula before Pandemonium began. Door bosses are just one of the symptoms of that stagnation, IMO.
Like you mentioned in the last part, I think we should go back to Binding Coils or even Alexander-esque "raids". Like the trash or even just 1-2 minibosses that are pretty quick and serve as a DPS check. I really, really dislike the fact that "raids" in modern XIV just mean "glorified trials". Where's the exploration aspect? The whimsy? Imagine, hypothetically, a world where we actually traversed through Eden – a "fake world" created based on the Primal we were imagining. Especially for E12, we could have gotten the "memories" part before the actual fight, rather than having it midway through. Going into Pandaemonium – literally, we are raiding the prison, but actually… we're just standing outside the door. Kind of a let down. Would have been fun to even go through the sewers for P2…
But I hate how almost "formulaic" XIV fights have become. Oh, a new dungeon that you pull wall-to-wall in and only goes one way? Nice, not like we have never had that before. As aggravating as Totorak was, it was actually EXPLORATION… like a dungeon should be, in my opinion. But now every person is expected to pull as much as they can to get the dungeon over as quickly as possible, which also doesn't sit well with me (like, why are you playing the game if you want to do a dungeon in 10 minutes without even enjoying yourself?). They add in those little notes in some dungeons like the 87 EW one, but if you use DF, no one actually lets you read them… they're already down the hall, on their fourth pack of mobs. With the raids, it's like, Oh, a door boss? You shouldn't have. No, I really mean it. You shouldn't have. While the transformations are pretty neat, they really should just separate them.
Binding Coils was difficult and a mess. But, I dunno. I had so much FUN with the jump puzzle one, even if I kept getting lost. Even Variant dungeons are so streamlined, which could have filled the niche exploration aspect. The raids are all the same, and they're almost too difficult with little reward. Ex7 just reminds me of Ex1 to the point where it's boring. Funnily enough, the only fight I actually have any interest in right now is Singularity Reactor Unreal – an upscaled extreme from Heavensward…
I think the main they won't do it properly, by which I mean a separate instance, is that they're afraid of backlash from players "feeling forced to do savage to unlock content". It would be such a huge win for PF especially if they made the final savage fight a hidden unlock after clearing all 4 turns. This would also let them make both the door and final bosses more interesting, and perhaps split the loot so door boss drops armor coffers/tokens, final encounter drops weapon coffers/tokens.
Based door boss hater. I despise the 2-part fight formula we've had for each final fight this xpac. What hurts even more is that the boss after the door boss is a lot worse than what you just did. The only second phase I've enjoyed this xpac was Hesperos phase 2 and even then that was weaker than it's door boss. Praying that in dawntrail that they don't follow this formula again.
I just hate watching the cutscene each time. Once I've seen it once I don't care for it anymore. Also i think only the last tier should have door bosses, or well, only the last tier should have a whole ass fight for the door boss. The others just keep it at like 2 minutes or so.
At least for p8s, the door boss felt like a full encounter. I thought that was a good fight that stood well on its own
The second half, well, fun to figure out blind, boring to repeat
Aaaaaand 12 might as well have been a copy paste of that formula, but on easy mode with a dps check that makes odin normal seem tight . . .
"A door boss is basically a mini boss you fight before the real boss." If only this was true i wouldn't mind it at much, but this latest tier just felt like 2 completely different undercooked fights and phase 1 is arguably more interesting / fun IMO making the "real" last boss just feel like a chore.
Yeh i dont really like dragoons anyway
It's a compromise. If you want to fight bosses with challenge that means mechanics and tricks. And if you want to fight without running through empty corridors to the door boss that means trash pulls.
This is as good as it gets
why make a dragoon guide btw? its reworked in 7.0 lol
Yeah it was like that during Stormblood. Back then it was really nice because it was new. Now it is just a common thing. I think they just should raise the difficulty in Savage a bit more. I don't care if the last Boss is so strong that week 1 clears aren't possible anymore and just do one really good Endboss. Maybe even in a slightly longer fight, like 12 minutes or so.
On a thematic level, Pandemonium is very much about losing humanity and merging with creatures to approach ‘divinity’. In that sense, door bosses that fully reject their humanity and become monsters make sense. Perhaps the next raid will have a different focus and less door bosses.
Ok so
1. I watched the whole video – what the fuck is a "door boss"
2. I personally found Endwalker much more fun and engaging than Heavensward and Stormblood. Haven't done the raids yet but don't really care about those.
I think the High Praise for Kefka and Exdeath just came from Nostalgia because even then i think both Fights were boring AF in the Normal Form. It was just a bigh DPS Check without any major Substance behind it. Kefka felt more like a Normal Mode Version just without AOE Indicator. As for E12s i freaking loved the Door Boss it was so differend then the normal Mode Version.
As for P4,8&12s i have really mixed feelings. P4 had a really good Doorboss. I liked him more then the 2nd Phase (Yes even with the Pinax Memes). P8s was just Overtuned. As for p12 i have just hate. The UAV Phase was just funny with all the TOP Satelite Memes in Mind. Caloric is by far the Worst Mechanic with its tight limited Movement. Pangenesis reminds me of High Concept which i think was also a really cool Mechanic. But overall i dont line p12 as a whole. Not p1 and also not p2
A small "Door" Boss like Faust would be cool but pls dont give us Trash. It was boring back then and its still Boring today. I wouldnt mind some Split Arena Bosses where the party is splittet into 2 groups for most of the fight.
This is all because of technical limitations. WoW ran into this at about this point as well. Every boss with 2, 3, half a dozen phases. All I gotta say is, be careful what you wish for, or you're gonna be stuck fighting bad math from stacked stat squishes until the game hits EOL.
Door bosses are the worst. Not only do they not feel rewarding because you do a full fight and don't get any loot, but progging is also awful. People get so worn out beating the door boss, just to complete it and have basically another half of the fight to go with no reward. Not to mention how toxic pf gets about the door boss.
I miss e8s for that reason. It was a very long fight, but it satisfied that "reveal" of the final boss while still being hard and fun. They also we're able to synch the music to the fight which added a fun musical element to the fight that I haven't seen replicated since
Yeah, better have the same fights as normal, right?
I love door bosses. They give such a better experiance in a savage enviroment. Problem is people hate them cause they dont view it as exclusive to savage… they see it as a gate keeping mecanic.
eh, just make them 5 fights. having an actual full fight is something i consider as "more content". and i'd rather have a door boss over a 15 minute final fight.
the endwalker door bosses are good individual fights.
I definitely agree that door bosses have overstayed their welcome. I would like to see them go away, but if they don't, either make them less complicated like Exdeath, or give them loot. Before they moved chest pieces to the third fight, I would've said that the door bosses could have the chest piece drop, and maybe an extra solvent/shine. Now? They'd have to move something back in to the last fight honestly.
I like door bosses