Dungeons are definitely the worst offenders of boring FFXIV content. What would you do to spice things up and make them more âstressfulâ ?
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Chapters:
0:00 â 2:05 Where should stress be added?
2:05 â 2:34 Removal of stress
2:34 â 4:05 Healer mechanics
4:05 â 4:54 Tank mechanics
4:54 â 7:29 DPS mechanics
7:29 â 7:42 Maybe we all just need more opportunities to fall off a platform
7:42 â 8:32 But donât overwhelm my baby healers!
8:33 â 9:58 Re-add past stress points/mechanics
9:59 â 11:20 Mob pulls are boring!
11:21 â 12:28 Why are you afraid to die?!
12:28 â 13:46 Bozja is the perfect example of fun stress
13:46 â 14:18 How would you add stress to the game?
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Add soulslike contantđ„”
I understand that dungeons are made that even Riot blade spammers can clear without an issue, but if you are at or near max level 6 expansions deep, you should be expected to competently perform at least core rotation with light(suboptimal/basic) burst windows with heavier mechanical intensity. Having 1 basic mechanic every 30 seconds isn't engaging regardless of class you choose to play.
This extends to Normal Trials and Raids. Having experienced a horror of 22 min EW 2nd trial kill and 18 min P12N kills, some sort of cutoff point for the hard enrage is needed. I'm not saying anything crazy like needing good performance from everyone, but more so +60-90sec on top off what would be needed from basic dps standards mentioned above.
Also remove "very easy" option from solo scenarios. It serves no purpose but allow people who don't care to even perform barest basics to get to the endgame where they just endlessly spam cure 1.
Kudos to you for enjoying the easy jobs while still acknowledging that not every job needs to be designed that way. Universal job simplicity is bad for the game because it means ALL the difficulty for EVERYONE has to come from fight mechanics. Even people who do Savage still are doing other content like 90% of the time, and that content needs to be fun for the average player.
I wish there was something intermediate between normal and savage.
I can solo a lot of current normal current content on PLD.
More stress for the MSQ dungeons, YES, PLS! đ
What if mob pulls force us to go in with a strategy?
For now you just pull everything, kill it and go on. In most cases i just don't even know what i'm killing.
Just give the enemy's some abilities that make our life just a little bit harder đ
Basic: What if there's a strong healing mob in the back that makes it near impossible to kill the grp until you kill the heal?
Not that basic: What if there's a ninja mob – invisible – in the grp that is attacking our grp out of the shadow and you have to collect something that makes this guy visible?
By the way: does a ninja actually make use of the ability to go invisible beside the dmg buff? đ
I remember a WoW clone that i've played in the past where our ninja/thief had to sneak into the mobs to paralyze a specific enemy, or else we had a hard time trying to get to the boss đ
As a fellow White Mage / Sage main, I completely agree that I wish there was a bit more required healing. The majority of dungeon runs these days are so samey because I just pop the same set of cooldowns and then barely have to pay attention to anyone's HP. On most bosses it's just drop regen on the tank until a tank buster or raid wide happens.
One thing I would love to see them do is add a better set of "mid-core" content to serve as an on ramp to Savages and Extremes, and a place where they could add just a bit more stress. I only just started savage raiding a couple weeks ago and it's a ton of fun, but I was too scared to try it for a very long time. I think some kind of content that could help bridge the gap between normal mode raids and Savage/Extreme stuff would have helped me build the confidence to try them out sooner.
I like most of these ideas!
Good video as always. I've seen so many people go off the Google translated version of the article and taking the "stress" comment out of context. You seemed to have understood exactly what Yoshi P meant. A lot of people skipped the part where he said he didn't mean to make the game more difficult but more challenging. In that sense I enjoyed your thought process. I think your "chains" solution would be good for solving the DPS question. Have the healer chained and unable to target chains. DPS have to break the chains before a timer or else they fail the mechanic and healer won't be able to save them. Something like that.
As for the dungeons and mobs, I believe the change was to make the Duty Support viable. So I'm not sure how they'd be able to integrate your idea in those confines. Thoughts?
I really like your idea of helping tanks learn tank swapping. Until post EW I always mained SCH (started as SMN in SB until the job rework)… So picking up ranking this late, I've always been uncomfortable with tank swapping unless with friends.
As a healer main, I agree with you that dying is whatever. But Ive seen tons of healers refuse to rez and tell people to just respawn. Then they have to do the walk/run of shame from the entrance back to the group who continues the dungeon without them. So I get why some people are worried or anxious about dying. And I'm sure others are just embarrassed. They don't want to be the only 1 "failings".
This game needs a more gradual difficulty increase, right now the game is boring unless you are doing extremes or harder in which case they are league beyond what you'll find in normal content. I don't think we should be catering end game dungeons and trials around new players at all, and instead help build the player up with a gradual building up of difficulty so one fight isn't that much harder than another, but there is still a significant gap between early game and endgame content.
I'm not a fan of the more healing in dungeons thing for purely selfish reasons. If we can't go 3dps+tank anymore then it's going to waste so much time.
Here we go again it honestly tiresome once again a horrible video by another cc creator who doesnt understand that Casual content is made for casual not midcore or hardcore player like her. First like to say what TRUE CASUAL player is so ppl dont get confused ,a casual player is a player who plays with casual mindset and plays to have FUN AND RELAX( KEEP THIS WORD IN MIND EVER SINGLE STEP ) they do not ever seek challanging content because challanging content isnt relaxing and ppl who do that arent casual but midcore players.so what then is causal content the answer is simple all form of content that isnt difficult or challanging like: normal dung( mostly all expect ew and shb first dung),trails , island santuary,gold sauscer …
any other form of content my it be normal raids,ally raids ,varaint and crit dungs,deep dungs and of course exc trails + bozja and eureka are all true midcore content (now some of the ally and normal raids can be casual but that debatable at best ) and they belogn to player like who like midcore content THAT CONTENT MUST ALWAYS BE OPTINAL same with hardcore content like crit savage, savage raids and ultimate that are made for hardcore players . the issue is cc and midcore players are ANGRY THAT EW DIDNT GIVE THEM ENOUGH CONTENT and that fine and so is asking for more content (even if you all arent even 20% of the playerbase ) BUT THAT SHOULDNT COME AT THE COST OF CAUSAL CONTENT BEING IGNORED LIKE IN SHB,SB AND HW (we had jack shlt to do in those expantion post msq )AND WORST LIKE IT SUGGESTED IN THIS VIDEO TO TURN CAUSAL CONTENT MORE DIFFICULT . the issue is simple first CASUAL CONTENT CANT BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT REMOVES THE RELAXING PART OF THE CONTENT and removing that relaxing part simple removes the fun for the casual players who play to enjoy the game and NOT BE CHALLANGED , i know it BIG SUPRISE but most casual HATE raiding and DONT WANT to learn in game they play for FUN that why they dont want to do those kind of content and SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO IT they dont pay the sub to do content they hate ,that why all forms of difficult content MUST BE OPTIONAL not part of the msq or forced down on them .
NOW FOR THE W2W BS the reason why we made it 2 packs at the time it because the mayority of player aka casual that tank didnt like the stress of pulling so many mobs and risking death (also why ppl dont like dying in normal raids should be easy it INSULTING TO DIE I NTHE EASIEST CONTENT)and since the midcore players simple hate the lack of not w2w and the devs simple made a balanced middle where w2w is not much easier as it should be in normal dungs so that why we have 2 pack at the time to many healer jsut want o dps this days and that not their only job in fact it their secondary part of their job same with tank is to take agro first before anything .
NOW for the point why healer need something to heal is ironic in most dungs the biggest struggle is the 2 pack mobs not the bosses reason for that is they are tanky as hell and do a ton of dps compaired ot most mmorpgs normal dungs so making so their are more mobs first we need to LET HEALER LEARN THEIR JOBS NAME IS HEALER NOT ALIVEKEEPER to any losers and it what ppl deserve to be name heal tanks or dps ONLY WHEN THEY HIT LOW HP LIKE 30% hp while in all dungs mobs have tiny chance to crit it simple ADDING STRESS to the tank who doesnt have a billion mit and is ether force to selfheal and lose the overall dps of the group or forced to spam mits becuase the healer refused to do their job + the fact you let anybody get low again IN THE EASIEST CONTENT IN THE DAM GAME is in itself insulting ,that not to say healer cant dps but their first job is keeping the team in SAFE hp base of at least 50% not 30 % or 20 % and to many of this raiders who heal in normal dungs tend to do that it as bad as tank who turn off tank stance unti leverbody is low as f only to turn it on then and tank agro .
AND TO FINISH IT UP SIMPLE and easy CC HAVE TO STOP THINKING THEY SPEAK FOR ANYBODY BUT THEIR ECHO CHAMBER OF FANS NOT THW WHOLE PLAYERBASE. also stop thinking you know what best for causal player YOU ARE NOT CASUALS ONLY CASUALS KNOW WHAT BEST FOR US,stop asking to ruin our content instead of asking for more of the content you like,stop THINKING EVERBODY PLAYS TO REACH ANDGAME AND RAID MOST PPL DONT PLAY TO BE CHALLANGED THEY PLAY TO RELAX AND HAVE FUN(CAUSALS).Stop insulting casuals and speaking for us and finally stop cry how oyu pay your sub and should be cater too and given what you want it sad and insult to anybody with a brain you aint the only one pay subs in most mmorpgs of modern time it been stated that +80% of the playerbase are casuals and we pay sub too . anyway gl to you all and i hope you leave us alone otherwise is this all get in effect ffxiv wont last 3 expantions .
I'm all for non-removable debuff stacks in dungeons for failing mechanics, that don't impact damage output. Instead they could reduce the rewards from said dungeon based on how many debuff stacks you have. Reduced gil/tomes, lower caps on loot rolls, or even losing the "need" option on loot rolls are all ways to hold people accountable for their gameplay and increase stress without making instances harder to clear or imposing penalties on the party as a whole.
I just hope that "Difficulty" is not going to be higher trash mobs HP. In most of games thats what higher difficulty means. Trash mobs already are AFK zone most of the time. Do not make us sleep even more
I don't really agree with the idea of being careful of making every dungeon and trial clearable for even the worst players. We'll reach lvl 100 in dawntrail. If you play like a lvl 1 player in a lvl 100 instance and because of it you're unable to clear it, i don't really see a problem. Right now, the game never asks you to improve because the level you need to clear anything is too low.
How to make FFXIV more stressful: if Aitherea ever has a prolonged hiatus from content creation. Please don't ever leave us Ai.
you know.
i've never seen a tank buster + raidwides at the same time.
lets call it tb with fall off damage like your aoe.
lol.
most of the game is very slow paced. make more barbie boss. give more damage, more random aoes, bullet hell and make boss more random rather than a set telegraphs.
about healer jail, chains, it's been done lots. they dropped it. it's not in the current content.
the heck a wipe in cll?
i feel like a M+ (ish) system would be great for the game!
Even normals are already too brutal hard. Must triple every damage and defense and healing in the game asap if they want to run this game for some more days. Want challange? Go and work 12 hour physical work 6 day / a week. Then try to play a game this brutal hard like ffxiv already is.
This article is why I plan to quit the game. I enjoy challenge, but stress is not fun. Stress is the opposite of fun. Challenge is not stress.
I think worrying too much about the worst players in the game drags the fun down for literally everyone else.
Its kind of cool to hear these problems/solutions from more casual player, but honestly i dont see a lot of these things helping in the long shot, these solutions dont work if the jobs are not reworked and nerfed, the reasoning being that every job has too much utility as the game is currently, even if they increase the amount of AOE:s in a dungeon for example but don't nerf tanks or other jobs, then there is still very little purpose to have a healer, tanks can heal DPS so efficiently and have so many raidwide mits that the damage increase would not be enough for a healer to be necessary and even if they were healers have way too much OGCDs to still make it more interesting, doesnt really make it interesting to me that i need to use 1 more aetherflow stack on my SCH to heal than use energy drain really, would it be better for new players? yes but it doesnt still help them become better players, in the worst situation they become cure bots and that is really bad way to grow in the game
im a tank main and the problem with the tank point is that the autos would need to hit DRASTICALLY harder and most likely it doesnt make new/bad tanks learn tanking better, they just expect to get healed more and more which will make healing annoying and while i do like tank swapping its still really minimal thing to do and usually its still ignoreable, tanking is dying as a role anyway, it used to be about managing enmity and positioning bosses, now enmity doenst really exist and bosses re-position themselves for the mechs so there is nothing for the tanks to do except stand there and get hit, honestly if they removed boss autos and busters then there would be absolutely no reason to bring a tank, which is really sad.
and for the DPS point sure i would like to see some DPS mechs or something, but the whole "support my group" stuff is exactly what this game doesnt need, you doing damage, having fun doing your rotation while also doing some universal mechs is what DPS is about, the whole 2 min burst meta exists because of this "support my group" mentailty, people actually consider the 2 min cooldowns "teamwork", its not teamwork, its just a necessary thing to do, doing the mechs proper and conquering the fight is teamwork, not pressing 1 button every 2 mins.
don't get me wrong im not trying to be necessarily negative, i would love to have some of these changes like more damage or more uniques debuffs and such, but the game is just not fit for them as it is now, the jobs NEED reworks for these solutions to work, tanks need to have way less self+party healing and mits, same thing for healers they need to have less OGCDs and melee rotations need to be more investive and punishing (for example make the positionals for melees be more important like they used to be long time ago)
the jobs CANT be perfect and have everything, cuz if everyone has everything then nothing is special, there is no weakness for someone else to cover for you, this is why the no healer TOP clear was possible (yes i know its overused card, but its real proof just how badly designed current jobs are) by the jobs being too powerful
i do think the fights should invest more on mechanical skill rather than tight DPS checks but its really hard to make them cause the jobs are so OP that everything needs to one-shot the party when mistake is made or it doesnt really affect the pull/fight
You know whats stress? Real life. It fn sucks work sucks people suck . I play a game to relieve stress. I just wanna play a fn game after work you know where REAL stress is. I dont want a 2nd job playing a game. Thank you for your time.
As a sprout, finding out that the game is going to be more difficult makes me want to leave (i did not even login today), I don't want to invest my time into a game that after 10+ yrs is still trying to find a balance in difficulty. Dark souls got everyone in a choke hold! Not every game you play has to be that hard! And these one shot KOs is not fun! Its not "difficult" its just bad. Being new its already embarrassing dying in front of others, like look at this noob, now they want to up the difficulty? huh! I have already watched some guy say they should lock all the cool stuff like mounts behind "hard content". Its giving me the ick, people who have been playing the game for 10 years are looking down on new players for the reasons why they are not happy with the game.
Yeah nah I gotta disagree with Aitherea, Ive been playing casually for a year and only just finished main MSQ (not post) for EW. I really just couldn't solo most of the dungeons, trials ect for the EW msq and had to get help doing them. It's already quite difficult for /actual/ casuals imo. And I hate asking for help with MSQ stuff because then it becomes a bit of a rush, trying to keep up with whoever is helping me and not being able to actually observe and soak in the the environment and aesthetic of the dungeons ect.
I don't really play games for stress but to de-stress, for relaxation and light entertainment. Are Extreme, Savage, Unreal, and Ultimate not enough for players who want difficulty? The easiest battle content in the game is definitely too easy, but there is a line they cannot cross.
My favorite dungeons are the setpiece ones like Amaurot and Dead Ends, which I'd rather play through than a dungeon it's impossible to die in, and I prefer alliance raids like Orbonne that can turn into mass casualty events to snoozers like Thaleia. So at least with the alliance raids I'd agree that they've missed the mark at level 90. But outside of the MSQ, there is already far more "stress" content than not.
i literally cannot do dungeon roulettes without falling asleep
A few points:
Regarding dungeons, ALL they need to do it add more respectable mechanics to the monsters (different for each type of monster and telegraphed as well as untelegraphed), like Criterion or Deep Dungeons, and slightly increase their HP. That's it. Criterion and Deep dungeons feel like actual dungeons, while the Dungeons themselves are a boring walk in the park. Dungeons should be interesting, each mob group different and with engaging mechanics, not just wall to wall pulls into a boss room. Dungeon Gearing is also trash! Nobody needs it unless you are leveling, but there's no real incentive at all to repeat a dungeon after done once. A minion and maybe a glam are not enough incentive for a borefest. Alternative solution? Get back on making Hard mode dungeons like they used to and make them an actual challenge. Heck, add a SCORE SYSTEM like Deep Dungeons to the Hard mode, so that people can at least have fun trying to speedclear dungeons and perform the best to be high on rankings. Just give people stuff to do when it comes to doing dungeons. How do you not even come up with these ideas? I don't understand.
Regarding Alliance Raids, they should 100% be on the level of Baldesion and Delubrum at the very least. Require cooperation, strategy, activities other than just fighting from room to room, splitting up the raid, and so on… They are super boring atm and don't even feel like raids. Delubrum Savage is what an actual 24 man raid should look like, and the only thing that even remotely reminds me of a WoW raid. Make more of that. Too hard? Ok just make a Normal and a Hard/Savage version of the Alliance Raid, it's literally that easy… stop being lazy devs… every type of mainstream content should have a harder and more rewarding version as well, otherwise it becomes irrelevant.
In terms of gameplay, the dungeons and alliance raids added in EW were the weakest for me, even if I enjoy them thematically.
Regarding healing, especially in raids, 100% the way to go is to make bosses do WAY more autoattack damage, and more frequent. This is literally how other MMOs do it. and healers would have to be way more engaged actually healing instead of playing support dps. For tank add more tank swaps. I'm really happy you brought up these two points as I completely agree.
Finally, asking for harder content isn't being elitist or "hardcore" in anyway. I don't even raid Savage, never even tried an ultimate, and STILL the difficulty of the normal content in the game is WAY too low imo. I understand not everyone might want harder content, and that's fine, but make it available for people who do. At the moment there's no such option for that type of content, and there's not enough quantity of hard content in the game with good incentive to do, especially due to not adding Field Operations this expansion (luckily they are back in Dawntrail). Dungeons and Alliance raids are the game's weakest mainstream content imo, even if I love me some Orbonne Monastery or the occasional Nier once in a while. Dungeons I just completely avoid unless farming for a specific glam, otherwise useless content.
Devs just need to create M+ in FF14(Criterian), so normal dungeons are not affected by increased difficulty to not upset "story mode" players. In Criterian dungeons Devs can increased mechanics, create unique trash mobs with more mechanics from bosses, they can add interruptible casts to them, etc.
Reduce how much you can gear from Normal dungeons, give more itemlvl to Criterian and Savage and people will grind those more.
As far as players worrying too much about dying, that can be blamed on other MMOs, IMO. I remember when I played WoW, you would get kicked from a group for dying, or harassed, or bullied, such that it became less about the actual dying part and more about getting bullied or players dropping group or something like that (even the possibility getting doxxed or swatted, because some MMO communities are just that unhinged). FFXIV is thankfully blessed with an abnormally chill playerbase for an MMO, and having battle-rezzes on every healer (and even some DPS) really helps make death less punishing, but the reflex of "if I die I'm gonna get torn a new one" is still there for people who came to FFXIV from other MMOs. I'm only now beginning to unlearn that "death = bullying" reflex after THREE YEARS of XIV; it's not an easy anxiety to let go of.
I otherwise agree 110% with everything in this video, but just wanted to provide that bit of context on why so many players have death-anxiety.
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The biggest issue I have when thinking about this, is how much of the negative sentiment is coming from repetition rather than difficulty?
Like, lets say we spike the difficulty. Everyone here with this sentiment seems to be savage raiders or so, so lets make it so they only way you can get gear tomes is by a faux hollows sort of thing where you need to do one of the latest two EX trials daily 5 times a week to cap. If you had to do that for two years instead of normalmode dungeons, would you really have a different outlook on the entire thing?
11:29 I do not think players are afraid of dying as such, I think they are afraid of the reaction of the people in their group.