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I think the best idea would be reworking or having new iterations of the daily roullettes like 50/60/…and Trials on higher difficulties with an additional currency that gets you cosmetics (maybe event currency). I think they shouldnt change the lower levels and leveling roullette so new players will have a good experience and encounter experienced players who can help them. But higher difficulty on each of the expansions max level are really really fun. I did one of the level 50 normal Raids for 8 hours to get it cleared and it was really fun thinking about my class strength at a certain level and using certain skills I never use later on.
Considering i learned monk in like 30 minutes at a target dummy after boosting id say slow leveling and unlock of class features makes me very burnt out. I much prefer speed or starting at max.
to cut it short i say just copy the mmo SWTOR. all its dungeons are balanced for a specific level (high) and anyone at or above it is scaled down (but wont lose class features only numbers) and anyone below it are scaled up. (wont gain features but gain numbers.) It also lets any combination of roles do the dungeons, adding medical stations you can click on on bosses (that has a short cooldown.) In the end it scales players to the dungeon and not the dungeon to the players, which i imagine is way easier since you only worry about one level worth of balance.
gives you access to all the dungeons at every level and its much more fun, and low levels mix well with high levels without really sacrificing fun or balance. Furthermore id recommend they speed up leveling as well across the board, at least when at or below 80. Leveling is always boring in every game unless its your first time and you got a fun story to go along with it. Imo the difficulty in a game should never be GETTING TO THE CONTENT but rather actually doing the content.
Dont even get me started on leveling as a dps xD
If they really dont like this idea then i guess the easy solution is to make it faster. That way its not 4+ runs before you get a new dungeon or class feature but maybe 1-2.
Leveling has never been fun in this game to me, except for Bozja which I leveled ~12 jobs from 71 to 90 in. Normal fates are a bit dull and I listen to podcasts during. The CEs are engaging, the raids are cool (but not that great for EXP) and duels are really fun though most don't participate and it's really slow. Also being level 80 instead of 71 is neat.
The dungeons in XIV are very dull and almost intelligence-insulting with how easy and simple they are.
This is coming from a sprout who's only really gotten through most of Heavensward so take it with a grain of salt. But maybe while they develop the levequest like dungeon options and tomestone for exp like you mentioned, they could add something that at least in my mind would require much less development time (though I think your suggestions are great and this game would only improve the more options people had to progress at whatever pace they felt was needed – it gets rid of one of the core reasons allot of people wouldn't pick up the game to begin with). It's an odd source of inspiration, but one of the games I loved to grind out even on older content was the Ratchet and Clank games, the old ones on PS2. Every time you beat the game you can play it again on a NG+ mode that gave you a bolt multiplier, basically that games currency. Maybe have FF do a similar mode but without the NG+ where after completing content that content gets a certain amount of multiplicative exp enhancement the next time you play it. Play it enough times, lets say for example 10 times, and it grows a small amount. Beat a certain amount of other content already at certain gaps (ARR finish, Heavensward finished, Stormblood finished etc.) and you get a bonus but only for content within that Base/Expansion. Have any numbers of sprouts in the party and that gives the biggest boost, up to 7 I guess or even more on alliances (the large WoW like group one… might have forgotten what it was called cause I've only ever done one of those so far). All these separate multipliers could enhance one another and be multiplicative… and even if that goes too fast or is still not enough the devs could simply spend a week testing out adjusted values once it's implemented and push out another patch to fix it. Maybe the game has already been doing this behind the scenes and I haven't been paying attention. Once again I'm a sprout with only some 250 hrs, so I'm sorry if I speak in ignorance.
i feel like another solution would be to have it so playing NG+ rewards XP incentivizing people to check it out if they want.
I like the idea of level scaling while keeping your abilities. Just add a massive new player bonus to exp and tomes so that people are actually happy to see a sprout.
In other words, take a page from Square-Enix's biggest crossover game series, Kingdom Hearts, and have a difficulty selection for Realm Reborn leveling dungeons:
Beginner: Usual level
Standard: Level 60
Proud: Level 70
Expert: Level 80
Critical: Level 90
As an ex WoW player who hated the basically non-existent levelling experience in WoW, I’d leave FF if levelling got changed. It’s perfect for me as it is. It is meaningful, takes reasonable amount of time and it is well balanced. I honestly wouldn’t change a single thing about it.
Lmao this is overly complicated the game already has a system for you to practice a job you want to level from being new at it to max level and is called picking the max level dungeon you can enter, you go to your duty finder and queue up on the max place you can go and done!, NOW the Roulette extra bonuses and rewards are basically a PAYMENT the developers give to vet players who HELP them to fill up some Duties than are in need of people so new players can progress and experience old content there are a lot of Duties than are not optional and mandatory for you to progress on the MSQ.
I think SE's big focus on roulettes is to minimize queue times for people going through the story. Most people who are leveling alts are doing so after finishing the MSQ, so they've already invested a significant portion of time in the game. I think the expansion of the trust system will open the doors for SE to move away from this and provide more alternatives to alts, but they've tended to separate alt leveling from standard roulettes (see Deep Dungeons and Bozja). One theoretically minor thing I think they could do in the meantime is to expand the Armory Bonus. Currently, the armory bonus gives bonus experience if you have a max-level job and if your current job is below a certain level (70 or 80). I think they could expand that to add bonuses for each max-level job you have. Additionally, they could give a larger boost if you are leveling a job in the same role as one that is max level. So if you got to 90 with Samurai and wanted to go level Monk, it would take you less time than if you wanted to give Reaper a shot. This would hopefully minimize some of the monotony of leveling jobs in the same role and also speed up the process overall.
I'd be happy if you just kept all your newly acquired abilities even in lower level dungeons. It sucks when you have a cool new ability but can't learn to implement it into your rotation because you're doing your rolos. I mean, what difference would it make? Dungeons are easier? They are, as you said, doable with two people. Just let me keep and learn how to use it.
I REALLY enjoyed Mythic Plus Keys when they introduced it into WoW. Wish FF14 would find a way to not "infintely" scale 4 man content, but give us harder difficulties? possibly with a global timer on the "hardest"? Add in the bragging rights and only cosmetic rewards (a mount for each patch of dungeons, going back to low lvl dungeons). I'd love to use my aoe more in non raid/trial environments that are actually HARD.
Imo the biggest problem is lack of skills/spells game gives u early on, even most new players quit cause of it, they have to introduce rotation OGCDs and more overall way earlier.
The next problem of leveling NEW jobs is variety of duty finder, which technically might already get better with them introducing trust system for MSQ dungeons, it would be also nice if after reworking MSQ roulette they just put every other MSQ dungeon or at least the common ones in MSQ roulette, for that they would have to also do more about those unskippable cutscenes in MSQ roulette, which are obviously way of the past as no new MSQ duty was added after ARR.
Also Limited Leveling Roulette should work even if u are queueing solo, with it going down like 10 levels for every 10 minutes you wait in queue, less in night/morning time , so you can have the option always on without completely wasting ur time.
With all that you'd have 2 options of leveling dungeon roulette as well as way more chance to actually play your job near your own level, only possible downside is queue times, which might not even be a thing, since it would become common for people to just do both daily roulettes, which is not the case for MSQ roulette right now.
Sorry for basically ignoring ur ideas, but this would be imo way less effort for Squeenix as well as making the experience of leveling and learning new jobs better without any overcomplicated ideas.
Yeah, levelling is kind of a slough. Especially when you're grinding lower level classes.
Level scaling is the norm in Guild Wars 2 and works so well, open world and in dungeons, if SE takes that idea, would be a nice QOL improvement.
Remember to tick limited leveling roulette in duty finder settings if your sick of getting sastasha and such when your a lot higher level. Makes it so you'll only get at most a dungeon 8 levels under the lowest member of your party or self if solo, so if the lowest is 70 then lowest dungeon possible will be 63.
Lvling was not to bad except when you get low lvl dungeons that honestly should be redone to work with the newer style of gameplay (Copperbell mines is the worse). 50/60/70/80 are fun but they honestly don't give enough exp to be worth it. Trials and 8 man raid are fine as they are, but alliance need to scale by time it take to complete. msq not worth it refuse to do it instead I did the beast tribes and pvp.
Exp vouchers for tombstone would be so awesome, I use training dummies to practice my rotations at 90 anyway. No matter what there are growing pains at level 90. So this option would incentivize old content and make dps job last a lot easier to level, those dps queue times are sometimes long and discourages people or atleast me to not level another dps outside of the msq content.
I think the FF Dev team doesn't want to overwhelm newer players. Most new players I'm sure doesn't know how to filter out other player's FX. Seeing people using many various skills while they are working with just 1-4 skills may make them feel discomfort of a sort. It might be done this way to really reduce player conflict and by having everyone on an even table. It is a tough thing doing older dungeons, either they can do an opt in service for people to keep their skills or not and have it similar to that of time walking, but I think the roulettes would lose it's real reason, as an avenue for younger players looking for others to do their runs with, and the duty finder I think is used to entice higher level players to playing with the new players to help them through their storyline.
I wouldn't be surprised that even with all the rewards they provide from the duty finder still isn't enough, so the dev team may be enticed more into creating the bot system for ARR and higher so everyone can have faster queue times for low level.
Remove the dungeon requirement frpm the MSQ. I positively despise that part of the game. Some dungeons are ridiculously difficult (Amourat in Shadowbringers) and unless you complete it, you cannot progress the MSQ. I couldn't get a group through the Party Finder (1 hour wait time) and after 15 attempts with the NPC group (even trying different npcs) the mechanics kept getting the better of me. I eventually broke down and bought the story skip and am now in Endwalker though I am in the process of going through the book SE gives you when you buy the story skip to catch up with the lore.
I tried to get my friends to play FF 14 and they were all for it untill they discovered that dungeons were mandatory.
Not everyone gives a turkey about endgame content. Many of us are casual players and have zero interest in raiding. WoW kinda burned me out on that. So I wouldn't change the leveling system just to please one part of the playerbase.
For starters, bring back combat leves to higher levels, and make their XP decent, on par to DoL/DoH, and buff low level combat leve xp.
Then, buff lower level fate XP, because it's simply not worth doing currently.
Make the world relevant for leveling again, instead of making people sit in deep dungeons and roulettes.
I disagree about changing scaling, or making it akin to wow's "make enemies scale to you" thing. It has always been a fucking mess in wow and a balance nightmare, current scaling system works and there's no reason to fix what isn't broken. They just need to take a look at every job's kit according to level and change it accordingly, for example, there's no reason for some jobs not to have aoe at lower levels while other jobs do.
Love your videos but this time the feedback I'm giving probably won't be that useful:
1) I love that my main (MCH) got a lot of screentime in your vid — so many people are down on it these days so I'm happy to see it get some!
2) I also love that you used the level 87 dungeon music – I love that bgm and can't get enough of it!
I honestly think it should stay as it is.
I think the amount of exp gained in leveling roulette should be inverse to what it is when queued through that roulette- that is, we should get more exp from the dungeon itself the lower level the dungeon is/the greater the difference between the dungeon's level. As in, to the point where the amount of exp you'd get if leveling dropped you in Sastasha as you would if it dropped you into Vanaspati, or slightly lower. That way it's not a huge net waste to do it compared to just queuing for a dungeon at your own level manually.
I like the concept of tomestones to level, but I think that if they were to implement such a system it would have to have some very specific stipulations in order to make it specifically for alt jobs. I doubt that SE would ever go that route, considering they sell job skips on the Mog Station, but if they did, I would expect it to be something like:
Field Combat Guide, costs 2k Tomestome of Poetics, grants one level to current combat job, up to 20 levels lower than current cap. (60 back in ShB, 70 in EW, etc.) Basically, this can get any job to the level that whichever the new expansion jobs start at. (currently SGE and RPR.) The cost is high because farming Poetics is practically effortless.
Then from 70-80, for example, it would require the base expansion tomestone, (in EW's case, Aphorism) requiring at least one job at cap (90) to acquire them. For 80-90, Astronomy, with the cost adjusting as new tomestones are released/replaced, of course.
With a system like this, a player would have to level up at least one job to cap in the normal method, and you wouldn't be able to just boost a newly released job (or any job) to cap at launch. (And even at cap, it becomes "do I spend my tomestones on gear, or pick up a level for X job?")
Obviously if SE were to even consider something like this they would make a lot more changes, but as a rough idea I think it would work well for most peoples' playstyles.
I want an elden ring mmo……
I’m only 2:45 in, but I have problems with your suggested fix of “giving us the skills we already have.”
This has many issues, chief among them is balancing. Samurai, for example, gains many OGCD skills and outright buffs on their attacks as they level. Compared to a level 52 SAM, the 90 SAM will always outshine them.
“Lower the potency/gear level dynamically, so the higher level SAM does about the same damage,” is a hypothetically proposed solution. This one doesn’t work either, as any slip-up in the higher level character’s rotation means they fall far below the lower level’s dps. I don’t parse/dps meter, but I definitely notice when someone isn’t doing well damage wise. This would just feel bad, and make the higher level character feel as if their work leveling their class was for nothing.
This also has another intrinsic and unavoidable problem: skill spoilers. Not even spoilers in the traditional sense, but I doubt most sprouts look at their skill sheet to figure out the spells they’ll obtain. If a 90 summoner and a 30 summoner were in the same dungeon, the lower level one would be inclined to ask “when do you get that cool bird,” and would be demoralized when they realize just how many hours it will take to reach that level. This would lead to a great many sprouts leaving the game before it even “starts.”
It would also just make the game feel like a cheaper MMO in a way, reminiscent of the P2W games that match new players with whales on purpose so they’ll pay money to get the classes that look cool. It may not be the reality of the game, but that’s the taste it will inevitably leave in the mouths of many.
Nothing is wrong with the Leveling in ffxiv if you find an mmo repeating the you are recognizing the fact you are playing mmo.
If anything they change roulettes to putting you in a dungeon that is your level. What you suggest here is a lot of work and can't be done with the snap of your fingers.
Desperius, though I love the video and I agree with most, I think the title is a bit misleading, as, even though you talk about leveling, most of the video is about dungeon "syncing" sorta speak. Please take this as positive criticism, I don't want to tell you how to manage your channel, far from it 🙂
I got 2 more jobs to 90 last week and should get WHM there tomorrow for a total of 12.
Starting every job at 80 instead of 9 of them at 1 certainly makes it easier.
Star Wars the Old Republic and Rift do level syncing by downscaling all your values, so you have your full kit but you act as if you were less powerful. This method of level syncing is much better than the current FF14 method, because then your level 90 DRG and level 15 LNC can both do Sastasha with their own kit.
I think SWTOR has a really good solution here where the scaling is set to what the level of the content is, but your kit is kept at your current level. You end up with this nice balance where you don't get the new player being overwhelmed while the higher level player can practice their relevant kit. The issue there though is that we have kit traits that outright increase potency, although that's probably not enough of a difference to mean much if you have that lv16 lancer and the lv80 dragoon, instead you have them at the same power level but the lancer gets to see what the endgame version looks like.