RUINED FOR EVERYONE? Hackers in FFXIV PvP are undeniably causing a furious rage in the community. You know, the game mode that Square Enix invested a ton of money reworking significantly? Yeah. This might have staggering consequences for many FFXIV Communities.
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Timestamps:
0:00 This is why we can’t have nice things in FFXIV
0:58 Who this impacts
1:53 Why would someone use cheats?
2:36 What bots can do and what they are not doing lol
4:16 There isn’t AI or Machine Learning here
5:52 Theoretical TEA bot
7:02 WHY PvP Bots are Concerning!
8:38 The player uproar!
10:31 A painful problem
12:30 Concerned
This is why we can’t have nice things.
This may be one of the biggest threats to a massive part of the final fantasy 14 ecosystem and that is actually upsettingly enough not clickbait.
Square Enix currently has a policy where they don’t want to do things like anti cheat and evaluate stuff on your computer. Those days may be coming to an end shortly which is going to impact a lot of people.
We’re talking about purely cosmetic mods, we’re talking about user interface enhancements such as delveui to make your ui look like world of warcraft’s elvui for God only knows what reason eugh, we’re talking about mouse over click UI enhancements to apply say astrologian cards to team mates, we’re talking about marketboard bots and callout tools for raids, housing item placement tools, eureka trackers and oh so much more.
Before I continue talking I want to address two things about these bots:
First off everytime I hear someone else have a take about this questioning why someone would want a bot to play for them, it’s going to be bragging rights for getting a certain rank, or simply the pleasure of stomping people yes that even means in casual mode. There is a primal dopamine hit in an unfair gank, just look at overgearing low level ganking in open world pvp in other games. Joy from winning even imbalanced is a real thing.
Secondly people are always so surprised at oh my gosh the bot can do this or the bot can do that and say it can do too many things to list. I want to clearly say anything you can see on the screen is accessible to a program, but the most common way is to read in memory — which then can be parsed into commands. Such as this damage. Of course there are more hoops than that, but basically it’s spat out. This can range from excessively difficult to trivial depending on which library you use.
But essentially like in this text editor here you can write code that can keep track of this and set a bunch of conditions.
Now these conditions can execute key presses, mouse movements, clicks, open other programs, make calls to external websites APIs, close other programs like literally about anything.
So when people are shocked at what the bots can do– why are you shocked? Can you not press any keys? Can you not read what is presented on the screen?
There is not that much complicated in a script like in the text editor saying if enemy hp less than 35k use machinist limit break.
Now the oddest thing I’ve heard yet people talk about bots in terms of AI or machine learning. No. Not at all. These are at best behavioral trees that can be deeply rooted but based on what I’ve been told the bots do– they are probably pretty surface level. While yes a montecarlo search tree combined with something like sarsa lambda could be massively fascinating as someone who has done exactly that and knows people personally that were involved with said algorithm the amount of time and simulations required makes any such speculation preposterous. The difference between a game like Go and 14 pvp is astronomical. Don’t be deceived by projects like deepmind’s alphastar for starcraft 2 published in nature in 2019. There was a significant amount of work and a mind blowing number of simulations that went into that.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03298-6
But that cycles back to, a program that reads in memory which is basically anything, that can execute any command, can do pretty much anything.
If someone truly wanted to, they could make a program that would take the logs of top parsing TEA clears or upcoming Dragonsong’s reprise ultimate clears, watch their vods if necessary, feed these into a program that would parse it and then have a program sequentially execute every action down to the pixel perfect movement and camera rotations. Multiply this across 8 computers and bam you suddenly have a perfect TEA farming static of 8 bots
source
When a big company invests money in their new pet project and someone messes with it, that does NOT END WELL
After I heard about what the bits can do, I started noticing bots all the time
If pvp hackers get my posing tools and quality of life add-ons banned I'm going to screech non stop
This is blown up wayyyy to much, I’m currently top 40 OCE Ranked, challenged and beaten those in top 10, and I can say with confidence the amount of PvP cheaters is like 0.01% of the players, don’t get me wrong I’ve challenged some, I’ve encountered a WHM that instantly polymorphed me every time I pressed my limit break. But I think this is seriously getting blown out of proportion and videos like this are creating panic for no reason at all.
It's the weakness in the mind of the human race that is only growing people don't want to work for their rewards anymore. it is pathetic honestly. Don't wanna work to get your pvp rewards then don't pvp is that so hard.
They better not add an anti-cheat engine because if so it may make the game unplayable for those of us running on Linux. I haven't been able to play Lost Ark because the anti-cheat thing it uses registers the stuff to run it on Linux as cheating.
As for pvp. I made it further than I ever thought I would. If I did it against bots that just means I did even better. So in a way, Im proud because of this. I'm fighting hard, still climbing & don't need bots to do it. Honestly, I'm kind of used to it. I craft manually & I've been watching people that have no idea how to do it use bots…. um, sorry…. macros for years. Even in restoration ranking. I asked those that said I was uptight, "How would people react to using bots in raids or pvp?". Here's my answer.
If they pushed an anti-cheat to my game client, I’ll just quit the game.
Quick question if I may as I'm not that far into FFxiv but what is the issues with the TEA gifs that Cole references please?
People have been using 3rd party tools in PvP for a while now so it’s nothing new to the devs
What's wrong with Delvui? Do you think it's cheating somehow or do you not like the aesthetic of it?
Ban all the hackers. It’s time for a witch hunt. Get out the pitch forks 🍴
Problem is that they already said that they won't ever implement anti cheat software. Because it would cause troubles with the law in some countries where the game is available. The better solution would be an easy report button for quick reports and more gamemasters to review these reports and the logs.
If they implement anti cheat because of people cheating to get on a meaningless leaderboard I am going to be salty af. My biggest concern is that the graphical upgrade is coming. I have personally experienced, as well as seen direct evidence that anti cheat affects performance and that in turn could make a direct move for many players running the upgraded graphics eventually having worse performance. And of course there’s the add ons, which I don’t use except for ACT (measuring personal performance only) but I know many rely on for accessibility reasons and would all be nuked. I can say pretty certainly they SE wouldn’t add those features into the game either after they nuked them via an anti cheat. So I really hope they consider the MAJORITY of players here when considering implementing an anti cheat. It could very well negatively impact more people than it would help.
I found a tank could defend limit break easily. So I just fire LB at him randomly when he was full HP. Turns out he instantly shield up. lmao
Always gonna be some wankers that ruin everything for everyone.
they should take action
df u mean they might, its their job to do it
and these bitches who think cheating is fine because only a small group of people cheat in 1 content(pvp) just dont want their gshade nude mod gone
I was planning to use some aesthetic mods when my new PC arrived later this week but, yoinks. Even basic aim-botting can force swap to targets with the lowest HP just by reading the same info we see on screen. Bleh.
I feel like if SE ever has to take that drastic of a measure they would also have to finally implement addons like they promised way back in 2.0 that they kinda silently reneged on.
i love how they have to hack just for a few crystals and adventure plate designs lol
I don’t know what I’d do if I lost my chat bubbles 😭
I think it would be far more likely that the systems that they were using to detect housing botters are going to be retuned and employed for this then for them to create or lease an anti cheat for the game. It's entirely possible however I'm not entirely sure I think it's likely.