Frustrated with FFXIV Vertical Progression? | Work To Game
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The reason is, like i keep holding onto, Yoshi-P thinks we're all idiots when it to advance Mechanics and systems.
Also, be careful about E.V.E, your gonna lose your mind.
As a Father with limited time to play this resonates with me quite a bit. 6.1 was the first patch I was truly "caught up" and going into 6.2 I was hyped to try Savage.
The tome system is such a treadmill and keeps me from spending the time I want to on the parts of the game I want to. Logging in to run roulettes, do my 4 normal raids. Then attempt Barbariccia in PF
.
Tank gear is not ideal this tier so after week 7 620 weapon I am essentially stuck at 615 until Savage because ⊠Tenacity.
I understand why ⊠and it is a simple solution to keep players engaged. I am kinda giving up on Savage, as I don't really want the treadmill anymore. Best gear for Raiders. The rest don't NEED it.
I consider myself pretty good, and wanted to challenge myself, but I think I will have to grind for Bird mounts or run old raids, relics etc
I love FFXIV and am part of a great FC, but would love a path that could upgrade the gear I have and maybe isn't elite, but cutdown the weekly repetitive grind. If I choose to engage in then I could get stronger gear, but with upgrade I could still participate and have a path.
Each gear could have a max ilvl upgrade.
Time is the only factor. If you aren't raiding, getting to max ilvl is meaningless outside of personal achievement. Since achievement in other areas of the game are not about ilvl, there's really no reason to incentivize ilvl. Waiting for the next half patch to let everyone else catch up in preparation for future patches makes perfect sense imo.
Why is the long hair arguing with ginger prime lol crafted gear only goes up to tome gear when its augmented. @8:00 he was arguing that crafted gear could beat savage/augmented tome which it cannot. And ilvl does matter because it gives you more main stat. Main stat > sub stat.
The biggest problem with vertical progression is the time gate on it. One could argue even crafted gear has a time gate on it due to exotic nodes. Gearing up is part of the fun of an MMO, but when you can only freely gear up before the next expansion is released or at the beginning of a new one, that's a very small time window that you have to really enjoy free progression.
How many videos are you going to make complaining of the same thing
My only issue is thst gear is meaningless in this game. You just need the min ilvl to enter content, but after that it is useless.
So between this and the video where Brian talked about his frustration about gear/cosmetics being locked behind Savage/Ultimate content, it really feels like Brian just wants an easy mode in an online multiplayer game. I doubt that's what he's consciously thinking but thatâs how it really comes off, like he just wants things handed to him for showing up. Again, I donât actually believe that's his actual stance but I think that's why his stances get a lot of backlash.
I think the issue here is, unlike just about every other entertainment medium, buying the product doesn't entitle you to every aspect of the product. Most video games, including this one, sell the opportunity to master the system and overcome challenges, which are usually rewarded with flashy cosmetic items because 1. Those items simply feel good to have, and 2. Intrinsic motivation has been absolutely gutted as a reward mechanism in pretty much everything aside from fighting games.
As stupid as it is, games need that exclusivity in skill, something to show off that you're a badass that can do something 90% of the playerbase could ever dream of accomplishing. It's why rank symbols in games like LoL and OW look so flashy.
People need a tangible reason to engage combat mastery loop because, like you guys have said in the past, players will optimize the fun out of anything. If there's a way to get the same reward that doesn't require you to actually master the game AND find 7 other people who are willing to do the same, players are gonna do the easier route every time, and they'll probably hate it until they eventually drop the game entirely.
Iâm getting tired of every game being watered down to make everyone equal. Games used to reward you for learning the game and playing optimally. Now games reward you for being complacent while complaining about access to the game that people put the time into enjoying
I like the gearing system for now but I donât want to make everyone max I lv. I just need my tank and heal at minimum ilv so I can help my buddy if they need a healer or tank
FFXIV gear progression is boring af with minimal option, severely lacking in customisation. Chasing silly iLvl is the only path in this game, linear and basic af, everything just get reset every few months
as a bad FFXIV player I would love more feedback into my gameplay
it sounds to me like you want a FF14 sandbox. also bold of you to assume ilvl wont be capped in criterion
WHAT âvertical progression?â We stopped having that since HEAVENSWARD.
I don't know what it is about ffxiv but I played wow for 12 years and I played ESO for 6+years, but I can only play ffxiv for about two months max before I get bored and have to take a break from it. Then I come back and play another month or two and have to leave again. I havent figured out why yet
My biggest concern with allowing people to progress in multiple systems as Brian suggests is that "allowing multiple approaches" very quickly becomes "all approaches are required." Gypsum in New World is a perfect example. They allow you many ways to collect; Topaz potion and high level mobs, collecting three bags from gathering nodes, leveling up a gathering refining or crafting skill once per day, two from the faction vendor, corruption breaches, pvp. But since the limit to how many you can use per day is higher than the number you can collect that the "right" path is to do all of those things. That can be alleviated with a cap, like how FFXIV caps current Tomestones at 450 per week. You can run the raid bosses, or a few roulettes (I think alliance raid, 90, and expert will cap you in three or four days), or treasure map dungeons, or hunt trains. You can do all of those, but once you hit 450 you're doing them for their own rewards instead of tomestones.
Wall of text inc.
I'm a fan of Brian and appreciate so much that he wasn't spearheading an inquisition to convert the heretics, but my man routinely has the most metal-spoon-in-the-microwave takes on gearing. To mention nothing of the spirit of gearing and the rewards offered by overcoming challenge and adversity, vertical progression increases the quality of the party finder and progression in statics at the start of new raid tiers. This is because, at the beginning of a tier, it encourages *most* people to commit to a specific role or job. This is beneficial because we're assuming that the more that people play a given job, the better they get at it. So while you're learning new fights you're less likely to also be focusing on your buttons, dividing your attention. I mention this because if we flipped the script and FF14 was all horizontal like GW2 I personally would be all over the shop in pf, very likely griefing a party or two unintentionally. This restriction can be circumvented by either buying multiple sets of crafted gear or making an alt to gear up other jobs independently of your main, but these are both very steep time and/or gil requirements in the earliest parts of a new content patch when there are the fewest number of people that know how to navigate the new stuff. This encourages players to stick to one job/role, likely improving at it, before expanding out to others. This is extremely healthy for the game while people are learning new content that requires a moderate or sometimes high level of group coordination and player skill to clear content in the earlier weeks of release, and to circumvent it by making everybody BiS going into a new raid would make NA pf and recruiting even more tumultuous an experience. Ask me how I feel about alt gearing with books and tomes deep into farm though⊠Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.
You fools! The true end game is glamour! Looking good=higher dps
Not enough stats to warrant a 3rd set of capped gear. 14's gear stats are purposely boring for predictable balancing.
Savage will always the ultimate when it comes to gear, there is doubt
Its not like its the hardest content, we still do have ultimates after all, but savage is more manageable to a bigger chunk of players
Allowing different, easier content, to give the same item level as yhr savage ones will just discourage those savae raiders from doing what they do best. Increasing the gamer level cap is not an option either, imagine if ultimates gave the best gearâŠ
Now its not that a horizontal game is the soultion here, a lot of players enjoy seeing that level number change till they reach the cap. Stop being entitled, a lot of players nowaday6just want stuff handed to them on a plate, with a silver spoon, this is not what final does. You want it, you have to work for it. Besides if your level is already capped, gear is already capped, then why would you play the game? Capping these numbers is not the option, another thing in raids, even if you dont clear on the first week, this gear item get which increases your item level does make the fight easier, it gives you this feeling of progression, which you can feel and see on your screen with your numbers.
Also that horizontal progression you want, we do already have it, its just called crafted gear, you craft it or buy it and boom, SE just boosted you to the next tear item level
Vertical progression on the other hand, im not a fan of it either, but with the current expansion, we have more options than ever, variant dungeons are coming with their gear, you have your tomestones gear which you can level them up with alliance raid and hunting, your raid gear, your crafted gear, and probably deep dungeon gear when it comes, and your relic weapons
I can see at lease 6 options here, 5 if you take the relic weapons out
Now, down to why stats and materia is not relevant, and why it'll never be ever again. They are just hard to balance when you have more of them, not more in the sense of an individual job, but rather as a whole role, in the current ff14 set we have 4 tanks, in which two of them have a set of magical skills, the other do not. Give me a solution on how to balance this on one gear set for all four tanks, whats the meta? You cant set two tanks on brain stats and the other on power stats, ots just not possible
This is most visible on the casters where you have BLM om speed build, RDM on power build, and SUM is fine either, only cuz of its latest rework
The game does not allow you any form of customisation for a reason, and that is having more calsses or jobs to play means that balancing them is just two hard. Players are currently making a big drama regarding machinest, no one wants to listen to the developers. And thats only because one job in the game is not as good as the remaining 19, imagine what they would do if players where allowed to have this liberty of having more job builds as they like, the balance will go out of the picture and we're going to have a meta for everything, this meta wont change anything though, the only difference is that it wont be as balanced as it is right now
In all honesty, the only valid point ive seen in this video so far, is that regarding healers not wanting to raid in the current tier and that we should have a forum to deliver this information to the developers
But anything regarding vertical and horizontal progression is a just some linear talk in the middle
I liked bozja I feel like there should always be zone were you can be op, aside from the main game
I just don't understand the I want the raid gear but don't want to raid. It's like just hand me the best stuff on an much easier way than raiding.
Does Brian know how BIS works?
Much as I used to enjoy your videos, there has been too much negativity lately for me
I would love it if the Savage Criterion dungeons gave us the 620 tomestone upgrade item upon clearing it, or at least gave me SOMETHING from the savage gear tier. If I'm doing savage content, I should be getting some of that savage loot tier.
Personally I donât care if they lock better gear behind savage because you donât need it and thereâs no content other than a relevant ultimate that requires it. The only time youâd want it is if you raid log, but you can still get a good parse in normal raids with tome gear if you really want to. Wow has multiple streams to get better gear (grind like Zerith Mortis, M+, and raids). The difference is, you actually need the gear (if you want to do higher keys and beat mythic raids) and many more people so this content over ultimate, so thereâs kinda a point to acquiring it
I'm more frustrated with vertical *re*gression. I love going back and playing older content, but it comes at the cost of your job playing like garbage.
This is a hard watch, ginger isnât making much sense here, if crafted gear gave the same ilvl then there isnât much incentive to do harder content. Also like Chris said, savage gear is only bis for like half the gear?
time should not be a problem.., even if it takes longer, it should be attainable thru side content, that also has other rewards to focus on..
like 24 man raids & hunts, they offer other things besides upgrade mats for 620 gear
They just need to make everything cheaper. They lowered the cost for head/hands/feet in savage from 6 books to 4 but I donât think it was enough. In my opinion the Chest/pants/wpn should only cost 6 books and accessories should cost 2. Tomb gear needs to be cut by at least 50%. There should be no reason I have cap out for 4 weeks JUST to by a chest and legs.
The fact this game has 1 character for all jobs is awesome from a casual perspective, meaning I donât have to play through all that story stuff on alts, but now Iâm forced to only focus on gearing up one job/role at a time. If you can gear up faster then you can start working on gearing other jobs and it wont feel like such a slog, IMO anyway.
I'm not sure I really understand what Brian's point is. Tomes are already a wide path towards gear. The only thing that would be required is The Hunt, since upgrade mats are only available with hunt tokens for the patch they drop in. But even then, you get one a week by doing the alliance raids on the odd patch. I get the crafted gear problem, kind of. But its like Chris said, some crafted pieces are better for certain jobs because they have more materia slots. The only thing that's different is a slightly smaller number, and the color I guess. If you can allow yourself to not get hung up on the number, than it shouldn't be an issue.
I might just never be able to fully understand his perspective, as I come from the point of view of someone who has never worried about iL beyond meeting the minimum for entry.
I have always thought locking BIS behind raiding is stupid. There should be a route in every major form of content to get BIS. If I want to pvp for my BIS, I should be able to. If I want to do challenging pve content that isn't raiding, why not.
It trivializes peoples effort. When someone puts in extra time and effort to achieve a difficult goals completion there should be a reward. It entices them to continue that behavior and meet those challenges.
Why would gear optimization matter to someone who wasnât meeting that challenge? You get what you need to do the job.
Improvements to ability and performance come from experience and learning. It isnât arbitrary walls put in place if itâs a direct indication of player skill. Thatâs what savage is and always has been. It gets harder each tier.
You donât change the race because a runner canât catch the other runners. You train to compete with the other runners.
Ya know what the real tragedy is? Dyable raid gear is locked behind savage. That's the true injustice. I'm only half joking here.
Crafted gear can be BIS without the 10/15 extra Item level currently. If We gave them the increased ilvl while still maintaining the stats. The conversation would become "why is crafting the only way to get the best in slot" since the stats would be higher but share the same Item levelâŠ. Then we would have to talk about retooling all of crafting gear.
I understand the frustration of not having multiple avenues to get the highest ilvl. But it's a vertical progression game so there's always something to chase.
People that don't raid complain about gearing for raid.
Awesome.
You do better with ilvl if you know how to play, and I really doubt ppl who doesnât raid at all, know to to play a job to âperfectionâ, high level raiders will defo do more dps with 610 ilvl than most ppl with 630, and you can get to 630 without raiding, just gonna take longer and you canât get bis, but again, if you donât do raids, why do you care about bis?
Next video âis unfair to only give ultimate weapons to people who do ultimate â.
People clear savage in week 1 already. The increase of power is just a reward to those who complete it and also helps those who struggle with the tier and slowly power creep their stats to clear the rest. Now I would like there to be a way to get more gear for other jobs I play. As I mainly play gnb this means if I wanted to go do savage with friends as a dps or healer the process would take a lot more time since most my resources have gone into my main role.But again you can just buy the 610 gear for said job and have weaker stats than the rest of the group since technically itâs still clearable.
crafted gear has never gotten you into the same gearscore as tomestone gear.
now I get what Chris is saying, the number isn't 100% indicative of the power level of the gear, for example, I SWEAR that if I see another SCH piece of gear without +CRIT on it I'm going to *LEGIT* scream⊠Seriously a relic weapon SCH book, without +CRIT. why you do this SE??? Keeps crafted book with +crit
however overall.. if you average it out, in FF14 Tomestone gear will just be better than crafted gear. Especially for DPS monkies, Healers it gets more muddy, much like the +crit situation for SCH cause you WANT those crit shields and you want your crit high enough to get them fairly reliably⊠but a LOT of SCH pieces don't have +CRIT. But that's the life of vertical gear progressionâŠ
Honestly I prefer Guildwars2 gearing system / stat building system.
my Druid needs 100% boon duration⊠I gear for 100% boon duration, ok done.
DPS engineer needs 75% crit chance to hit 100% crit cap when I have Fury⊠ok.. done.
there are more parts to the system, but the system is easy to read in GW2.
Idk what Bryan's problem with ilvl is. Just chill. It's unnecessary to freak out about an arbitrary number and he's just being overly combative about a pointless number.
I really don't understand any part of his argument.