Xeno’s Reaction to the previous Frosty post: https://youtu.be/l2VVRbP4N94
Futures Rewritten Ultimate World Race is over, and once again the team who finished first has been exposed of cheating. So Frosty (creator of Mogtalk who partnered with Echo for the World Race stream) made a post about the future of FFXIV World Races. Xeno disagreed with the original post and now Frosty came up with a follow up.
Original post: https://mogtalk.org/2024/12/06/the-ffxiv-world-race-and-its-future-follow-up/
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Damn the bot comments 😂
Don’t get caught, remember! DONT GET FUCKING CAUGHT
What does it matter if “stream” is in the title? It’s the mogtalk world race and these are the rules mogtalk wants to implement. It’s not like mogtalk is gonna have 2 WRs. And any other WR trackers can have their rules if they want since there’s no official. Putting “stream” in the title because it’s now a requirement. Might as well put each rule in the title at that point
Asking players to handicap themselves just to get on some 3rd party list, instead of actually competing in the game, is delusional at best.
If a raid team in WoW killing the last boss on mythic in a raid tier while not streaming, an achievement actually pops up dating when the world first kill happened. It's been a thing for a long time even before the world first race became a streaming event.
i think a possible solution for preventing cheating in a world race is to get everyone on lan and make them play on ps5, you can play with mouse and keyboard anyway
Having hair is a third party tool and I'm sick of people not acknowledging this unfair advantage people have over xeno!
It's the MogTalk world first, part of the rules is that it requires the run to be streamed. No need to put that in the title. If someone else wants to run a list then they can run the list.
If Frosty and/or MogTalk wants to manage a World Race, then he should control it like the FIA (F1, WRC, etc.) or the Olympics. Closed system and isolated. Get a signup of teams, get a server, make x number of Virtual Machines for those teams with whatever rules he wants, and monitor/stream his world first race that way.
The problem I have with calling plugins a grey area is that it's such a technicality. Yes, SE can't be assed to keep a list of every plugin and whether it's acceptable or not
But we could. There aren't even that many relevant to raiding, and if you know how they function it's not hard to categorize them. Is that perfect? no, people are obviously going to try and divine new ways to cheat, but every time you ban something the new method has to get more convoluted, and it becomes less viable. Still, I'd bet money that's going to be an improvement over our current situation. Fundamentally no rule succeeds at being a written understanding of 'how something should be' because you can wax hypothetical forever. I don't think this is a reason not to attempt to define something that desperately needs to be defined, and it's why continuing to mirror SE's stance on this will probably continue to inflame the issue.
I'd be really interested in a survey of the entire raiding scene on who they believe has the FRU world first, if that was possible
Aside from the usual gray areas like "what does changing the intended gameplay actually mean" or whatever, I think it's pretty bad that you technically couldn't even reduce the IRL debuff we have by playing in a less-than-optimal position compared to the server. As of now there are hundreds of ms difference between players playing on the same exact region, which is not ok. Triple-weaving aside, there are some very precise and fast snapshots in this very last Ultimate, which no doubt has only been tested in JP with 2 or even 1 digit ping, resulting in "ah yes, this is possible for sure, let's do it"…
As for the leaderbord thingy, idk if implementing a "cleared on [DATE+Server Time]" that's globally recognized and the same for every region is too much to ask of them, but they do have the Deep Dungeon leaderboards, so they could at least do that per server/region. "NA World First/Top5" still sounds great if it's officially recognized and all.
2:54 bro who tf cares if they use noclippy,the point is you cant prove they are,use whatever you want as long as you're streaming and theres no 3rd party showing you're good
I like frosty but does he live in a world where lies dont exist…. lol this is an excercise in futillity, how will they be sure no one uses mods, they can lie about using them.
World first raiders must be on PS5/PS4 or Pro equivalent. Everyone must stream as well. No mods no anything. Limited tools exist to fix latency issues in the console ver we can allow it since it is basically noclippy but none of the other BS. Bam solved world first raiding /s
if they want authentic world races without mods could they not just do Console world first and pc world first separate ?
2000 words trying to explain when you could say the same thing with only two
No mods
The least we can do is define what we actually consider overstepping bounds so that when people do it we know they are intentionally violating the rules. It's not about knowing who's gonna cheat or being omniscient. Laying all this out creates social pressure that divides people around the line in the sand you draw. This is what frosty is doing, and it's how all rules work. Games, by and large, don't automate much moderation. Outside of someone doing something hilariously obvious, it's hard to detect even when you do put invasive software on PC's (valorant still has cheaters despite having a rootkit). Why not create a scenario where, for the people who care to participate in this competition, these rules apply? Sure someone offline can complete the fight before a stream team does, but nobody gives a shit because they didn't sign up for the contest. If someone beats an olympic record in a random field with the only witness being their friend and no recorded evidence, does that record count? Obviously not, you didn't go out to the damn olympics. Frankly, the only reason offstream clears for WF's in ffxiv were ever considered period is because the game went so long without world races being publicized in a major way. If you wanna accept the offstream clears as WF that's your own opinion, but I doubt the majority of the community will follow that.
……………frosty's statement should've just said in 1 sentence. Get caught using tools doing the race, you're done. Won't be counted no matter if you win. NO!! The solution is to play on console is dumb and forcing ppl to do so only to get in the leaderboard, for cred. No one is going to participate in that race frosty created. They'll create their own and tell frost to go F himself. GTFO with that BS.
So glad I just raid casually…fuck this headache lol.
For me, if you aren't paying the winners any prize money then you don't really have grounds to say how they can/can't play.
Still bald.
Community run event, community rules get to definite cheating. We get to decide what is OK and not, but with the stipulation if you get banned, you're banned.
"if you get caught breaking tos" would DQ anyone with an existing g log, that's why it's not worded like that.
Well im glad i play on console so I guess im free of that
Its really not complicated, Frosty is running an event if he finds people who breaks his rules they will not be on his leaderboard. If him and his team miss some people breaking rules but SE catch them he will go with SE verdict.
why do you care, you don't race or watch the race
It's so pointless trying to draw a line anywhere, we've had this conversation for years and years already. Frosty really should've said anything goes until SE does something.
Personally, I don't care what Square Enix thinks. I care about people competing in a fair way. If a team using splatoon and zoomhacks wins but somehow SE doesn't ban them, I still think they don't deserve to be recognized as getting world first. Frosty is right that these races do belong to the players, so we should set rules that matter to us. I think people should play as fair as possible. Everyone in the race should be competing on as even as a playing field as possible.
Didn't someone on stream in TOP get banned for a few days for ACT on screen? I don't know if they were racing but I do remember the clip of someone being punished because they took a huge stance for a little bit because the team that cleared first got caught cheating.