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Original Video: https://youtu.be/3kL2MkiaRJY?si=fSZWMbL5j-Hl6Oku
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Thank you for watching!
Original Video: https://youtu.be/3kL2MkiaRJY?si=fSZWMbL5j-Hl6Oku
Twitch | https://www.twitch.tv/pyromancer
Discord | https://discord.gg/zfqmZSK7Sz
Business Inquiries | [email protected]
source
This is just my take on it, but think of the rewards versus the content kind of like food.
All the healthy food tastes bad, but it's good for your body. So healthy food is like the hard content with the good rewards.
Meanwhile, the junk food that's fun and enjoyable to eat doesn't reward you as much because it's not healthy, but it's there to be enjoyed
And having a nice balance of both junk food and healthy food makes the experience overall. Because when you do eat the healthy food, you're rewarded with better health. And when you eat the junk food You gain a few pounds but at least your taste buds enjoyed it
Casual players always say shit like "no lifers are hardcore" but they don't realize that they spend like 9+ hours just sitting in their house or Limsa or doing menial grinds, hardcore players in MMOs generally spend a lot less time on the game, even in WoW outside of a world first race, people just clear and raidlog, maybe do a few keys every week
Get rid of weekly caps. Make gear come from different bosses or ect and just make the drop rates lower. I hate running content feeling like it's a waste because I'm already capped for the week
Xeno and people like him are looking for dopamine in a game that designed to give you endorphins, simple as that.
My least favorite final boss in all of ff is still the final boss of 9. It feels so tacked on and out of left field.
Maybe people should stop worrying so much about "BiS". Know what the difference between "BiS" and full upgraded tome gear is? Less than 2% DPS and you'll unironically be tougher as a tank and have more MP as a healer in the non-"BiS" set. Again though, by incredibly small amounts.
Imagine if you could buy the ozma mount. People don't do hard content to get some Gil. We do it for the title, mount or gear that shows off the effort we put in.
I don't know if you have seen it, but Mr.Happy released a video today, and the producers do know that player's are unsatisfied with the Criterion Rewards.. It likely will not be implemented next criterion dungeon due to how they schedule content, but they are aware of the dissatisfaction around the rewards.
Whether they address it in future, will remain to be seen.
I honestly think, if they add mounts for doing an entire previous savage series, min ilvl echoless, it would solve pretty much everything.
Like they do with the bonus Extreme mount, but don't make it random.
How long does it take to make a mount? realistically? 40 hours? 1 person's work week is just making a mount? 5 mounts with an assload of prestige
The gear treadmill is less in XIV as BiS only updates every 2 patches. Honestly, I'm pretty ok with that. I am a MSQ enjoyer that also does the savage tier, when people discuss FFXIV only from the perspective of end-game raiding and end-game content it kind of misses me. FFXIV has been designed as a FF game with a story. If you skip all of that and ONLY want to do the mega-hard-mode fights, you're going to lose a lot of what the appeal of the game was intended to be.
Also with the 24-man raids, if the gear from those was better than the savage raids, then you'd have the butthurt savage raiders that the 'ez-mode' content players were getting BiS handed to them when they had to do the hard thing to get theirs. Because the 24-man have story components, they don't want to lock it behind higher difficult (EX+ level) content. It's kind of a no-win situation.
07:40 i agree with this, Dungeons are useless on this game. I used to play lord of the rings online, which is a crap game next to final fantasy (as much as i loved it), but the dungeons there, you HAD a reason to do it.
Each dungeon had 2 or 3 tiers, the normal, then tier 2, and some tier 3.. with challenge at last boss.
You finished with challenge and got better token rewards + a chance to get a gold item, thing that is missing here, a reason to do dungeons other than xp. Because to me, i dont need roulettes.
I personally find things to do in this game. The one take I didn't like from xeno is when he calls the developers lazy. The amount of development time it takes to CREATE content is incredibly high and I think he just lacks context when looking at other games. How long did it take to beat BG3? How many years of development time was that. How many years go into your favorite games.
Portal took over 2 years to develop. It's a 1-2 hour long game. FF's team is clearly bigger than portals, but it annoys me to say the devs are LAZY, the development team is not as large as wows. We are talking turnaround development times of a few months, plus the creation of the new expansion which IS set to have exploration zone, criterion AND deep dungeon.
As for my friend group were taking people through old content, we love criterion, were farming up the rewards ourselves in ASS reclears before we move onto rokkon, we blind prog the puzzle solving. But I can see how people run out of content for sure. That was my only major disagreement. My friends and I do pvp, roulettes, leveling jobs, side content, clearing the towers and personally earning the rewards and we dont mind grinding the content for stuff instead of buying it ourselves.
Edit: The reward structure definitely needs work for this game though. I have no disagreements there, theyve dipped their toes into trying other rewards, I really like bozja gear and even did DRS
The core problem with the gearing is that if they made the top gear more relevant/long term then people would feel FORCED into doing savage and the toxicity would absolutely skyrocket as a result. The player pool would also be diluted with a ton of horrbad players that have no business being in said content and chain wiping parties. It would be like party finder but 50x worse for everyone.
I am speaking from experience playing many MMO's where hard raid content is the forced upgrade path, WoW is among them but not even close to the worst offender.
So they have to walk a line between keeping the vast majority of the casual players (because a TON of this games players don't even touch extremes/savage let alone ultimate) able to feel like they don't NEED to do that content to stay caught up. The more veteran/hardcore players usually pay the price here because this is one of the most casual MMO's on the market and square isn't going to turn their back on that player base and lose them.
There is probably literally no way to make both sides happy outside doing some system where you can get very long lasting/strong gear but it loses all its bonus stats in everything but the highest end content and gets nerfed back to just above where the standard gear everyone can get is in everything else.
If square has to pick a side, however they are going to side with the casuals basically every time, it is what it is.
Gearing isn't that bad or slow, Xeno just wants way more gear than the average player because all he does is raid 24/7 on many classes and gearing that many of them is pretty slow. If gear was given faster to us, raid tiers would become irrelevant extremely quickly as a massive amount of players isn't interested in more than one or two classes. There would be no one left to raid with after a month or two and anyone who's trying to get into the tier that late will be unable to do so.
i played the entire msq and have no idea what he's talking about — ffxiv story hasn't really held my attention since heavensward
I hope some of these suggestions get noticed by SE.
I've been thinking about this a little bit, and I realized that upon inspection, I really don't understand the point of it all. Why do we do (some of) the hardest content? For gear. Why do we want that gear? To make clearing that content we cleared easier to clear next week. Why do we want to do that? To get more gear.
I don't get it. Outside of meeting entry requirements, why do we even care about getting better gear? I'm not even a raider, I don't even attempt savage, but you can bet I cap tomes and get my normal raid clears most weeks. I get all giddy when I finally have enough blades to get my tome weapon. I eagerly do my 24 mans for them upgrade materials. And that all facilitates me doing slightly more damage in content I've already cleared. Idk, it's weird to me.
One thing I can say, that I think would fix the crafted gear issue, would be to give the new crafted gear the same IL as the last tier's savage gear. But then you run into the problem where people who do raid every patch and get their BiS have 0 incentive to purchase crafted gear, which is great for them but invalidating for crafters. So I guess there's no solution here that makes everyone happy.
You can let raiders go into the new tier straightaway with their last tier gear, making them feel like the investment was worth something and making crafters pointless. Or, you can force raiders to purchase crafted gear if they want to go in week one, giving crafters a reason to exist but invalidating previously BiS raid gear. Either way, someone's gonna be unhappy.
I had to quit watching at the 28 minute mark.
I feel like the problem that I see being expressed in the video by both of you is a desire for extrinsic motivators to play the game. They can be rewards on their own or combined with a challenge. When you run out of these extrinsic motivators or feel they are lacking you run out of things to do.
On the other hand, those extrinsic things have little impact on my desire to play. I'm a casual. I don't do anything above normal content (expect unsynched). But, I can log in each night, do some DRs, pick up a few things in Party FInder, do some Tribes stuff or something and log back out again, or just miss a night, just fine. I still enjoy playing. But my reason to play is mostly intrinsic.
Criterion should definitely have had upgrade mats for tome gear. Especially if they release Criterion on the even-numbered patches (alongside the savage raids). It would alleviate the big problem of needing TONS of upgrade mats. I mean. my team did splits so we were all fully geared in about 4 weeks, but we had to reclear for about 9 weeks to get UPGRADE MATS!!!
Even though I don’t play FFXIV anymore (no particular reason, took a break after Shadowbringers and just never returned because life), I’ve been watching Pyro’s videos because I like his takes and I’m interested in the nuances of the game so that I can understand it. I understand his position about ‘relevant/irrelevant gear’ and was wondering, has he ever tried Guild Wars 2? He might like how they do gear in that game. It’s definitely not a game I’d suggest ‘maining’ (and probably wouldn’t suggest any game frankly) but as a thing to do in between FFXIV patches? Might be worth a look if it’s something he could be interested in. Looking forward to more videos 🙂
55:08 THE PROBLEM WITH ALL OF XEEM'S IDEAS IS -> It separates the community too much. A lot of the content that you'll find yourself doing on repeat (hunts, experts/roulette, alliance) it's ALL designed to mix the community together. You'll find RPers with casuals with savage raiders with ultimate raiders. EVERYONE mixes together when they do these things. If they make fast-track methods for savage/ultimate raiders to get upgrade materials or materia or gear… it will FRACTURE the community
The Criterion dungeons entry level gear could of been the current crafted il, then gear you acquire through Criterion would be equivalent to entry level savage gear on par with the current tier one savage, and from tier one means of acquiring gear is reclears. Adding materials needed to upgrade like twin would be a nice touch but only one token can be acquired per week. If a casual player who doesn't touch savage can think of ways to implement improved gear acquisition then FF14 needs to change.
Looks like you want LFR,Normal,Heroic and Mythic 😅
Possibly Hot Take: Bosses should never drop gear, only materials and the crafters make the gear and augment it (at a later date).
The two things I've heard him say that I think should be the main takeaway:
Firstly, regardless of what content we get and what it looks like (criterion, exploration zone bosses, what have you) there's not enough stimulating of a challenge for people who aren't satisfied with the baseline difficulty but that ultimates, even extremes (according to what I've heard) are now less accessible than they were in the past… Variant dungeons do seem, even on normal, slightly harder than regular dungeon bosses but it's not replayable to the same extent as exploration zones.
The other important thing that I think Xenosys touched on briefly is an often ignored part of this equation: the job rotations are beginning to get stale to many, to what extent that's because of the 2 minute meta or the Shadowbringers-Endwalker design (though I think EW is ShB design minus some of the niggles that was maybe less "optimal" but added flavour), but I don't remember people complaining about how it feels to play your job as much then as they do now on a more overall level – as opposed to people being unhappy with an individual job because of balancing or getting long in the tooth.
The patches always drop 10 days after the live letter, so it will be October 3rd.
Just get a sugar daddy to diminish the value of gained rewards
I think the S-rank spawning community is great and I highly recommend getting into it. Some S-Ranks require killing 100 of 3 different enemies in a zone (Mare and Thavnair for example). Sounds like a grind if you are alone but you wont be with a group and you have cool nerds that pinpoint where it is going spawn. I have a blast chatting with people while working on the spawn and at the end of it, you spawn the boss and get to see 100 people show up. All the work pays off and a bunch of people benefit partly because of you. It's probably my favorite part of the game because it has all the MMO aspects in 1 activity.
Man, that's the content I expected from you. Keep it up and and remain chill like that!
The problem with gear for the current savage, is fairly simply actually, GCD's for raid buffs (quite a long read, but basically the TLDR at this point :P).
Casual gear isn't tuned to keep players in-line, 640 crafted (pre-bis) and a savage gear (upgraded comedy gear or actual drops/book exchange gear) is.
If you compare for example the recommended caster dps sets, you will notice that almost no gear has SPS on it for the current savage content (P9-12S). Exactly the same for BiS and savage gear drops/book gear. While any other casual gear sets are the exact opposite, heavy on SPS. And while some gear can be changed out (some more current recommend sets have a few comedy gear pieces (likely different on a job to job basis, dint check all sets)), in most cases your still slightly behind on crafted pre-bis (if not following a exact gearing guide). You can like i did, tinker around for hours and try and find something sorta the same, but again sub-optimal likely going to cause trouble as the fights drag on.
And that is why imo gearing sucks, and the most important reason i can find, is GCD cooldowns to keep those buffs in-line. Anything else imo is trivial, but there are likely design choices i am missing out on, because i am rather new.
Either way, imo its sucks to have to purchases basically a full set of crafted gear (i don't like farming gill), and then spending what ever you have left on materia to penta/over/advanced-meld the gear you en up picking for progress.