FFXIV’s You Pull You Take Culture | Work To Game
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It’s always funny to me when people complain about wall to wall pulling and saying “those WoW refugees just want to rush everyone” when final fantasy dungeon design is extremely purposeful, with corridors and pathways sectioned off to have two packs of enemies, sometimes three, and cooldown packs after bosses. Dungeons are literally in every way designed around wall to wall pulling.
You pull it you tank it
If the party is being a bunch of impatient jack rabbits and being rude to you.. honestly absolutely!!
The party where I had this happen I regret not turning stance off.
I’m totally fine if dps or heals pull just don’t be an idiot and pull it all the way back to me so I can keep them all together lol
Wall to Wall and die as the tank? oh yeah, it's totally abuse and hatred coming your way. Don't pull everything? Hate and abuse for being too slow. I pull according to how fast the dps kill things. But, i have a solution…. get rid of tanks AND healers since dps are so over-the-top angry and aggressive and elite. Problem solved. No more tank or healer blaming.
Also, if people are so damn aggressively angry when they enter the dungeon and want to GO, GO, GO let them play a tank. Sorry, if i pull "too slow" for you, i'm not being inconsiderate of YOUR time, i'm playing a measured way MY way. All the idiots screaming should just play a tank or get your own group of fellow "elite" players.
As a player that enjoys the tank role most of the time, yea, to me a DPS that runs in front of me trying to be the tank is kinda toxic. It wouldn't be toxic if I could leave and find myself another group but then the game penalizes me for leaving, so not only I'm penalized for trying to avoid a toxic player but also the penalty can be used, by the toxic player, as a means to "blackmail" the group into sticking with them for the entire run effectively giving toxic players means to kidnap the group and forcing other players into doing things their own way. So players that engage into this behaviour are basically just "control freaks", they just can't deal with the idea of cooperating with other people, they play an MMO but don't like the "multiplayer" part even less the idea of cooperating. Now we have to understand that this isn't completely their fault, part of this problem happens due to two design ideas: first, the holy trinity system where players are expected to stick to a role and defined playstyle and second, having group finder/matchmaking where random players are expected to cooperate in a positive/constructive way with each other.
I've never had this experience. I usually tank or heal for roulettes so maybe I just don't do enough roulettes to see these things. If anyone is very rude to me in chat, I just blacklist them. I don't know if that does anything though. XD
By the end of ShB if I wanted to pull as a geared experienced white mage then I just simply did. I wasn’t going to die so who cares.
If DPS is itchy and obviously purposely pulling I just let them die and say: "I'm obviously not pulling to your standard. Good luck with your speed run" then I leave the dungeon. Screw them. If they don't like it they can report me, I don't give a F*
I enjoy tanking but I still run with DPS who seem to think they can tank and rage quit when I don't rescue them. The phrase ' you're not doing it right ' isn't an excuse to pull and expect to not die.
As a healer main (though I dabble in all roles), I am often of two minds about YPYT. I suppose it really depends on how it appears at the time, or if it's actually even communicated at all. Does it seem like the non-tank is pulling due to impatience, maliciousness, disrespect for how others may feel, or whatever in this general vein of things? On the very rare occasion they communicate any of that sort of thing before or during their pulling? If that's so, then yeah, I'm probably going to let them tank it, and die. Don't be a dick to everyone else, you get back what you give others. Also, if you run off ahead to pull things, and don't bring them back to the rest of the party who's stopped because the tank has to kill whatever they've already grabbed (which may or may not be two groups already).. yeah, I'm letting you tank that mess, and probably die. I'm not chasing one person to save them over maintaining the rest, even more so if you're out of range or around a corner with no intention of coming back.
On the other hand, if you're just snagging the patrols who come near and pull them in? Half the mobs are down and you're grabbing the next to 'refill' it so the damage can just keep rolling? Just tabbed/auto targeted the wrong thing and oops, here comes more? Yeah, no problem, no issues, or even annoyance on my part. Run slightly ahead of the tank and pull things first, but we're all coming anyway? Meh, who cares. I'm going to heal you inbetween healing the tank and dpsing myself, so try not to get hit more please (and I even fall under this too. I can't count how often I completely forgo healing myself because it just doesn't matter.. or the tank is eating way to much damage to shift focus), but none of it's an issue to me. Heck, I'm normally the type that will even just laugh off deaths if we get overwhelmed, get back up, and do it again.
I suppose really it just boils down to whether or not it feels like (or actually is) someone choosing to be an ass or just intentionally disrespectful to the others in the party, often because they feel their time or opinion is more important than anyone else's. And then my desire to give back what is given. And as with everything else, actually communicating, preferably calmly and respectfully, can vastly improve any perception of what's going on, and keep everyone's tempers low. Or at least kept to themselves.
One last note, but on the Trust part of things: Seriously, I wish the npcs could handle double pulls or even wall pulls. It would be a GREAT way for new or anxious tanks to get used to large pulls without fear of any judgement at all, and actually learn what they need to do to deal with them. But my experience with them is instead them often barely being able to deal with one group.
Tanks job is to soak up damage, thats it.
You're not the unofficial leader, you're not the decision maker you're the damage sponge
I've never thought or ran into anyone like that I'm a legacy player healer. I just don't care I'm good enough to turn anyone into a tank.
I’ve mained pld since arr. unless someone asks me to not pull wall to wall (due to gear, skill level etc which are fully understandable) I’m going wall to wall. If a dps can get ahead of me a start the mob, no big deal. Grabbing aggro is sadly a joke these days. I’m all for roulettes being done as fast as possible due to wanting to get as much done in the short amount of time I have these days.
I had an entire dungeon last night refuse to complete a duty because I pulled as healer. It was smileton. They were reported for griefing, but when you play sage you litterally get a DPS increase for shielding yourself and it breaking. They weren't new players, or anything, they were just assholes. I had to solo the entire last packs of the dungeon as a healer.
YPYT is just people who need power in their life trying to bully others. Don't be an asshole. Learn to play with others and learn to not care about such minor things. If it stresses you out to play with others than go play with trusts.
I don't Tank or Heal anymore because of the stupid that sometimes happens in random groups for dungeons! I was kicked from a group recently for telling them that I was new to Paladin, Tanking, & won't be doing big pulls till I am comfortable! The next thing I know I am booted, no warning, nothing! I don't heal anymore either because I was rezzing the dps but then the Tank went down! I rezzed the Tank then rezzed the dps! The dps person went off on me for rezzing the tank before him because he was the 1st one to die! That time I immediately left! I play the game for fun & enjoy not for stress! I may come to Tanking/Healing in the future if I can find a good FC & my other one disbanded due to the real world!
if the tank knows ur gonna pull and is cool with it, fine. if you're in a pug with randoms, it's just needless stress to have someone pull extra stuff. i tried tanking and went back to dps because i was tired of wiping from it in stormblood dungeons. if the healer isn't ready it usually goes poorly
basically, just remember that you're playing the game cooperatively, so cooperate
To me it is a sort of general civility to let the tank pull. I think it is rude to "pull for the tank" without them asking you to or saying they are fine with it. I will still tank everything and do what I need to but that person comes off as a rude prick to me.
Same way I would think someone is rude if they try to cut in line at the grocery store. Am I gonna make a huge deal? No it isn't worth it, but I definitely think that person is an asshole and don't feel bad if someone else is an asshole to them in a similar way.
This isn't something that I really have to deal with often, I actually can't remember the last time it happened to me. However, I do still find the behavior to be rude and the you pull it you tank it response to be overly petty. Just get through the dungeon and hope you don't run in to them again.
Basic civility and manners go a long way, and yet somehow are quickly forgotten by people when they are on the internet.
The “You pull it, you tank it” mentality is childish and carrying it out is a prohibited in game behavior.
ngl i hate when someone pulls ahead, if you wanted to control the flow you should have been a tank you have that option. I dont turn off stance or go afk but man sometimes i wanna the spite flows strong and i just have a really bad time.
As a tank, any random group i run with, i open with "Welcome to <insert dungeon name> I am your tank, please, try not to pull ahead, however, if you do, bring them to me, thanx" I very seldom have issues because of that simple macro. I tend to start slow, and ramp up as i get a feel for the group, and i communicate that up front. In short, the best practice, is to communicate with the otehr players imo, it tends to avoid the drama that ensues when you dont.
The thing about the you pull you tank it for me is that I don't play non-stop. I take years long breaks and I don't always know what I'm up against and I don't find chasing around some moron to get aggro fun. And that's the other part of it. The jackass running ahead and pulling is NEVER the guy that brings them to you. They immediately start kiting. Always. I'm not going to A: risk getting my healer killed and wiping or B: it's not worth dragging the other mobs around lowering the group dps and ending up dragging it out longer. If you're not bringing the mobs you pulled to the tank, you're saying you can handle it, so it's not their problem.
if some jackass is pullin and i dont got cds up im letting him die. and as a healer i wont heal a pulling dps
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
I have a comfort level, tanking for me still requires paying attention and concentrating, getting positioning down, figuring out where my best is and the last thing I need is someone running ahead messing things up, scattering mobs, causing bad pulls to go nail the healer because they're next aggro if a DPS pulls if I'm not right there and I don't need to be chasing some running bard around trying to get mobs off of them before the mobs attack my healer. It's not fun, it's not cool. I rose up through games where you built your enmity, as a dps it was clear, there's as much skill in managing your enmity and NOT pulling off the tank and ruining their work as in managing to pull off the tank, the difference to me running primarily healers and dps and moonlighting as a tank, is that players who run ahead, pull off the tank etc slow the run down, aggravate the other players and take the fun away from the run. I…don't care why they do it, I don't, it's rude, it's self centered, controlling, bully-like behavior when you can't hold aggro because you aren't MADE to hold it, to run ahead and pull things unless the tank asks you to. Just, don't do it unless you ask and the other players say it's cool because you may have a tank trying to relax after a crappy day, or a healer still trying to learn their things or what have you. Bottom line? You aren't the only one there to have fun and you aren't entitled to all the fun a dungeon can deliver, you have to share, so, ask, or stay behind the tank, let them pull at their own pace, so everybody can have a good time.
Honestly, as a tank main, I don't understand YPYT. In dungeons you're the only person with a blue coat of paint, turn that stance on and forget about it, all it takes is smacking a mob once and you're now on their shitlist. The only times I've seen DPS pulling ahead of me are classes like BLM or DNC where they have a proc that's about to run out, which is understandable, I do the same as well, I wouldn't want to lose my Thundercloud procs either, all I ask is bring them into my AoE(I usually have sprint off cooldown in between pulls so there have been cases where a DPS pulls, and I just voke it back or use the ranged attack). In raids? Just do the fight, if you wipe, ok unload your frustration on the guy early pulling, because of the early pull, you(The guy early pulling) are the reason why NINs can't use hide to refresh their mudras so they have charges in their opener since they used the one and only mudra charge on suiton, now the BLM is a bit behind in his opener/rotation compared to everyone else(Though BLMs can rebound back to hitting like a freight train like they normally do). I could go on. Tanks with the YPYT mentality have such a crybaby mindset. Press your buttons, you'd be surprised what doing so can do. Or maybe don't play the tank if you're not gonna do it, it's no better than being a glarebot.
As a tank,,if you run ahead to pull, you’re an asshole for slowing the group down. And yes, you’re slowing the group down. Because instead of DPSing on the way like sane people do, you’re running ahead to get there 4 billionths of a second ahead. The group’s AoE will miss half the mobs because they are scattered all over the place like a toppled Jenga tower.
It’s simply a way to be a passive-aggressive asshole, nothing more. There’s a wall, so you can’t run ahead and back pull the second half of the dungeon. You just want to be a prick.
Bruh I’m not good not bragging I just had this experience in party finder tank pulls wall to wall ok cool. Aight next thing I know I’m tanking. Wtf where’s the tank is he down. No I’m just at the top of the Emity list (monk). 🤷🏿♂️
As a tank main the only thing that drives me nuts is when a dps can't read the room and repeatedly wipes the group from over pulling. I like to read the group's ability first then pull accordingly.
just my main reason for going off the “you pull you tank” way of thinking is with people who want me to go faster, i will pull as much as i can i just prefer doing two aoe’s and that should be allowed to be done. but when i pull two groups and the dps runs a head because they dont like that i take two more seconds then they want me to take as a tank that bothers me. if you wanna go rush through everything then bro tank yourself. i just find it super disrespectfull to me that me not using sprint the second its back up means you as dps or healer go play tank. let alone these shitty healers who decide to rescue you when your are taking aggro, that pisses me off more then anything. i will pull double or wall to wall just i prefer 1 more aoe then most, and that should be okey. so to people who feel they have to dictate how i tank and try to pull the whole dungeon then go ahead i wont take it off you as you disrespect me, i will do the same to you.