When you talk about the auto-proc skill, do you mean something that guarantees a repertoire stack? Or something that instantly activates Bloodletter when you are singing Mages Ballad?
Never thought about an Acceleration type of skill for bard, but I agree it would be great and would make openers way more reliable and feel better to use.
Personally I want Battle Voice and song buffs affect the Brd themselves, don't get why it doesn't. Also Apex Arrow is the worst feeling skill in the game, takes way too long to charge with underwhelming damage. Maybe a MCH or SAM style skill that just by pressing a button you get half of it instantly, and that together with the acceleration type skill that assure you procs you can get access to it more often, and in my opinion should be the hardest hitting BRD skill, Pitch Perfect and Barrage Refulgent do more and you use them more often.
I'd love to see this kind of videos with other jobs!
I just want a Bane (Summoner DoT spread) for Bard. If you're gonna reward me for having DoTs on multiple targets, don't punish me for trying to do that. Seems counter intuitive… but that's my impression from what I played of Bard at the beginning of ShB.
ALSO one more thing: let songs from multiple bards stack IF they are two different songs
people are saying songs should affect bards, I say as long as bard's damage is buffed to a certain point that that is not necessary, but either way I think could work to make bard individually stronger. Either way, bard needs something to make its own personal DPS better, be it a buff or letting songs work on themselves.
So, I'm confused by what you mean when you say that you want a button that guarantees a proc. Do you mean like a stronger version of Empyreal Arrow or are you talking about something else, like Barrel Stabilizer on MCH or Improvisation on DNC or something along those lines?
All I want for bard is some decent party support again and for the skills to feel more musical and bard-like. I don't get why they had to remove Foe Requiem, we have an MP bar, might as well let us use it.
As a Bard main in other RPGs and DnD, I think mechanically a lot of your ideas make a lot of sense, especially the DoTs, because doing groups of enemies as a bard feels very tedious with setting up DoTs across enemies, but I also have a big problem thematically with Bard that I feel goes all the way back to the class -> Job system
A lot of the Class -> Jobs have a decent progression that thematically makes sense. Fist Fighters become Monks that sort of unlock their inner energy, Marauders with Big Axes become Warriors with Big Axes, Thaumaturges become even more powerful practitioners of Black Magic, but Archer, the Bow Wielding class, becomes a Bard, a traditionally music themed (usually by playing a instrument in battle) themed vocation, and that one is the only that feels disconnected from its core class, whereas the others core abilities built on in the class then get expanded upon in the Job.
As a result (personally), this has led to BRD feeling very unsure of what it's supposed to be, because your core abilities are all Archery skills and the Music themed Bard abilities (of which there are few) take a back seat, and I don't think there is an easy solution to this problem.
You could reflavor a chunk of the combat abilities to be more Bard-like, such as Wind/Stormbite becoming "Discordant Melody" which is a melody that hurts a monster over time, but the two don't really feel like they belong together for me, and I imagine it's too big of an ask to have Bard be separated into its own Job and Archer given a new, more archery focused Job (Ranger? I don't know).
This also kinda extends to the Bard questline which is mostly just you being there because you're a good Archer, and you get to watch Guydelot be more of the free-spirited, gathers information by being a charming minstrel Bard.
I just know that in Endwalker I'd really like if in Combat I felt more like a Bard and less like an Archer with a penchant for music.
While I personally don't enjoy Bard, it's mostly because of all the issues you brought up. There are parts that feel like they want to work together, but just don't. Some parts feel just jammed in without much thought about whether it helps create a unique design. If those few issues were fixed, I would enjoy Bard more than enough to enjoy leveling it again once Endwalkers comes out. For the most part I agree on the suggestions, but here are some ideas I had that would help fix the overall feel of the class while remaining true to the identity they present.
I feel like one way to help would be to condense some of the mechanics. Do we truly need 5 different oGCDs that benefit from different songs in different ways, or were they just filler to make sure Bard has a kit the same size as other classes? They could condense it down to just Bloodletter and Rain of Death for that purpose, with each song instead modifying them in some way. Maybe one song causes them to apply the DoTs (with a lower duration for RoD), one benefits from DoTs being applied in the form of refreshes, and one causes a debuff that increases damage taken by enemies hit a slight amount.
That frees up three slots to expand upon, one of which could be an expansion off of Quick Nock ala Burst Shot and Refulgent Arrow, like you mention. There being only 3 GCDs you use (outside Apex Arrow) after your DoTs are applied gets old, so possibly even remove the RNG with Burst Shot and the Quick Nock (if they add something similar) then add a 3rd CGD that gets buffed based on the songs playing. Just as long as you make it so they're not a traditional 1 2 3 combo so moving away from it to either use Iron Jaws or Apex Arrow but instead similar to Monk's Forms works. Then for the one last space, an aoe Iron Jaws that extends to 15 seconds instead of to 30.
I personally feel like Peloton shouldn't expire the exact second you enter combat and should be allowed to run its full duration, just if you're in combat already the buff can't be applied to you. Maybe to make that a little more fair, up the cooldown to 10 seconds and cut the duration to 15. Just long enough to be able to re-apply it constantly out of combat, but short enough that if it's used to get into combat it will make getting into position easy. Also this cuts down on it being spammed constantly in Alliance raids when you end up with 5 ranged DPS and they all want to compete on who the buff came from.
Thank you for posting this, I enjoyed hearing your thoughts and it helped put my problems with Bard into words in a way I wouldn't have been able to with this clarity. While it is in all likeliness too late for Square Enix to make major changes to Bard for Endwalker now, I do hope that they see your video and take it into consideration for a rework in a patch following Endwalkers' release.
The biggest thing for me is just AoE DoTs, whether that be an AoE skill, or Bane (as SMN's have).
I've mained BRD since ARR, and I think it's biggest problem rn is that it's a busy class, for little reward. Some aspects (that you outlined) are frustrating, and you have to press far more buttons / keep track of more things than MCH/DNC, for very little to no reward.
Bard just doesn't feel like a bard to me. To me, it feels like an archer with subpar support abilities.
I think that Bards need an animation overhaul. Stormbite and shadowbite, easily can be "songs", like Darkness dance from ff X. Apex Arrow and Empeyrial Arrow? Remove the arrow and give the ability music sheet and note effects.
If a Dancer is meant to be a "burst" support, a job that gives a powerful buff once in a while. Then a Bard should be a consistent support. There should never be a moment, even in mob pulls, where a bard should not have a song up.
You can keep the song modes, maybe make them last longer, and give them a higher percentage that 1-5%. Maybe try the devs can draw inspiration from Black mage, where songs cost and drain mp, then bards have a "cool down" song where they recover spent mp.
Also… let bards spread their debuffs to surrounding enemies. And either A. Increase the percentage of node procs or B. Give bards an ability, other than Emperyal arrow that procs a node 100% of the time
Well put together, and good to see some Bard talk. Gripe first –
:: The AoE DoT thing is at the top of the greatest hits list of "bad Bard takes that never die". Do not just put up two DoTs on AoE pulls. You will have a bad time.
You want to apply as many as you can while running up to the mobs (before you're in QN range anyway), prioritizing Storms. On chain pulls this usually amounts to 4-6+ DoTs before you could ever press Nock anyway. Then you can toss the Shadowbite on a central target at the end, and can add a couple more if you think the pack will last a while.
When you do that, Apex is much more frequent and impactful. And it makes the idea of an AoE DoT silly – that accomplishes very little gameplay-wise, it'd just be generally overpowered to roughly double the DoTs we can get up. It would let us Nock sooner on the rare forced single pull, but why are we excited about pressing Nock sooner?
Pitch Perfect is also pretty functional in AoE in a lot of cases, too. 450 potency, even single target, is quite a lot when it's filling up as fast as it does when you multi-DoT. It's good to bring down mobs that are floating at higher HP so that they aren't left straggling at the end.
:: Army's actually makes you faster than Ninja speed. It is lame, but it'd be really hard to come up with another song effect that isn't too similar to the others. If they could, I'd rather see it added as a fourth 110s song to align us better with the usual buff cycles.
:: In-combat Peloton is a pretty common ask, not that wild at all.
:: Bloodletter charges are a universal demand that has made varying levels of sense since 2.00. It was stunning that they added charges to the game and didn't give them to BL, that skill was the poster child for having charges in the game.
The actual biggest reason for it now, moreso than the occasional double proc, is the EA auto-proc. The decision tree rabbit hole of when you should press vs. hold EA, vs. clip the GCD etc. under Mage's Ballad is actually disgusting and not at all reasonable. We're talking 0.2s DoT tick timer windows where you do something different here.
:: The acceleration idea would be similar to pre-5.x Bard's ability to gain increases proc rates off of snapshotting crit buffs. I don't think it'd be possible to do it in a way that doesn't snapshot a full 30s, so tuning hard etc. But, something in that vein would let us have some semblance of a burst outside of just-Barrage, which is among Bard's balancing issues in 5.x.
BRD is a simple class. It’s primarily focused around maintaining our two dots on the targets, as that dictates most of our kit. As nice as it would be to have an aoe dot, or even a dot spreader, it would make the class way too easy.
I feel like most of Bard’s issues come from just how much it relies on RNG procs. Some encounters hit all the procs constantly and you’re at the top of dps and other fights nothing procs and you’re at the bottom and there’s very little you can do to change that as a player
I think bards should gain the benefit of their songs since Dragoon gets the effect of Battle Litany but Bard doesn’t get the effect of Wanderer’s/Mage’s/Army’s besides them singing it.
I too like bards!
When you talk about the auto-proc skill, do you mean something that guarantees a repertoire stack? Or something that instantly activates Bloodletter when you are singing Mages Ballad?
All I want for BRD is the ability to use /Perform in instances.
Never thought about an Acceleration type of skill for bard, but I agree it would be great and would make openers way more reliable and feel better to use.
Personally I want Battle Voice and song buffs affect the Brd themselves, don't get why it doesn't.
Also Apex Arrow is the worst feeling skill in the game, takes way too long to charge with underwhelming damage. Maybe a MCH or SAM style skill that just by pressing a button you get half of it instantly, and that together with the acceleration type skill that assure you procs you can get access to it more often, and in my opinion should be the hardest hitting BRD skill, Pitch Perfect and Barrage Refulgent do more and you use them more often.
I'd love to see this kind of videos with other jobs!
I just want a Bane (Summoner DoT spread) for Bard. If you're gonna reward me for having DoTs on multiple targets, don't punish me for trying to do that. Seems counter intuitive… but that's my impression from what I played of Bard at the beginning of ShB.
ALSO one more thing: let songs from multiple bards stack IF they are two different songs
people are saying songs should affect bards, I say as long as bard's damage is buffed to a certain point that that is not necessary, but either way I think could work to make bard individually stronger. Either way, bard needs something to make its own personal DPS better, be it a buff or letting songs work on themselves.
So, I'm confused by what you mean when you say that you want a button that guarantees a proc. Do you mean like a stronger version of Empyreal Arrow or are you talking about something else, like Barrel Stabilizer on MCH or Improvisation on DNC or something along those lines?
All I want for bard is some decent party support again and for the skills to feel more musical and bard-like. I don't get why they had to remove Foe Requiem, we have an MP bar, might as well let us use it.
As a Bard main in other RPGs and DnD, I think mechanically a lot of your ideas make a lot of sense, especially the DoTs, because doing groups of enemies as a bard feels very tedious with setting up DoTs across enemies, but I also have a big problem thematically with Bard that I feel goes all the way back to the class -> Job system
A lot of the Class -> Jobs have a decent progression that thematically makes sense. Fist Fighters become Monks that sort of unlock their inner energy, Marauders with Big Axes become Warriors with Big Axes, Thaumaturges become even more powerful practitioners of Black Magic, but Archer, the Bow Wielding class, becomes a Bard, a traditionally music themed (usually by playing a instrument in battle) themed vocation, and that one is the only that feels disconnected from its core class, whereas the others core abilities built on in the class then get expanded upon in the Job.
As a result (personally), this has led to BRD feeling very unsure of what it's supposed to be, because your core abilities are all Archery skills and the Music themed Bard abilities (of which there are few) take a back seat, and I don't think there is an easy solution to this problem.
You could reflavor a chunk of the combat abilities to be more Bard-like, such as Wind/Stormbite becoming "Discordant Melody" which is a melody that hurts a monster over time, but the two don't really feel like they belong together for me, and I imagine it's too big of an ask to have Bard be separated into its own Job and Archer given a new, more archery focused Job (Ranger? I don't know).
This also kinda extends to the Bard questline which is mostly just you being there because you're a good Archer, and you get to watch Guydelot be more of the free-spirited, gathers information by being a charming minstrel Bard.
I just know that in Endwalker I'd really like if in Combat I felt more like a Bard and less like an Archer with a penchant for music.
PS. If you read all of this, thank you
While I personally don't enjoy Bard, it's mostly because of all the issues you brought up. There are parts that feel like they want to work together, but just don't. Some parts feel just jammed in without much thought about whether it helps create a unique design. If those few issues were fixed, I would enjoy Bard more than enough to enjoy leveling it again once Endwalkers comes out. For the most part I agree on the suggestions, but here are some ideas I had that would help fix the overall feel of the class while remaining true to the identity they present.
I feel like one way to help would be to condense some of the mechanics. Do we truly need 5 different oGCDs that benefit from different songs in different ways, or were they just filler to make sure Bard has a kit the same size as other classes? They could condense it down to just Bloodletter and Rain of Death for that purpose, with each song instead modifying them in some way. Maybe one song causes them to apply the DoTs (with a lower duration for RoD), one benefits from DoTs being applied in the form of refreshes, and one causes a debuff that increases damage taken by enemies hit a slight amount.
That frees up three slots to expand upon, one of which could be an expansion off of Quick Nock ala Burst Shot and Refulgent Arrow, like you mention. There being only 3 GCDs you use (outside Apex Arrow) after your DoTs are applied gets old, so possibly even remove the RNG with Burst Shot and the Quick Nock (if they add something similar) then add a 3rd CGD that gets buffed based on the songs playing. Just as long as you make it so they're not a traditional 1 2 3 combo so moving away from it to either use Iron Jaws or Apex Arrow but instead similar to Monk's Forms works. Then for the one last space, an aoe Iron Jaws that extends to 15 seconds instead of to 30.
I personally feel like Peloton shouldn't expire the exact second you enter combat and should be allowed to run its full duration, just if you're in combat already the buff can't be applied to you. Maybe to make that a little more fair, up the cooldown to 10 seconds and cut the duration to 15. Just long enough to be able to re-apply it constantly out of combat, but short enough that if it's used to get into combat it will make getting into position easy. Also this cuts down on it being spammed constantly in Alliance raids when you end up with 5 ranged DPS and they all want to compete on who the buff came from.
Thank you for posting this, I enjoyed hearing your thoughts and it helped put my problems with Bard into words in a way I wouldn't have been able to with this clarity. While it is in all likeliness too late for Square Enix to make major changes to Bard for Endwalker now, I do hope that they see your video and take it into consideration for a rework in a patch following Endwalkers' release.
Give bards sword and shield
The biggest thing for me is just AoE DoTs, whether that be an AoE skill, or Bane (as SMN's have).
I've mained BRD since ARR, and I think it's biggest problem rn is that it's a busy class, for little reward. Some aspects (that you outlined) are frustrating, and you have to press far more buttons / keep track of more things than MCH/DNC, for very little to no reward.
Have you ever tried DDO ( standing stones DND MMO )
Bard just doesn't feel like a bard to me. To me, it feels like an archer with subpar support abilities.
I think that Bards need an animation overhaul. Stormbite and shadowbite, easily can be "songs", like Darkness dance from ff X. Apex Arrow and Empeyrial Arrow? Remove the arrow and give the ability music sheet and note effects.
If a Dancer is meant to be a "burst" support, a job that gives a powerful buff once in a while. Then a Bard should be a consistent support. There should never be a moment, even in mob pulls, where a bard should not have a song up.
You can keep the song modes, maybe make them last longer, and give them a higher percentage that 1-5%. Maybe try the devs can draw inspiration from Black mage, where songs cost and drain mp, then bards have a "cool down" song where they recover spent mp.
Also… let bards spread their debuffs to surrounding enemies. And either A. Increase the percentage of node procs or B. Give bards an ability, other than Emperyal arrow that procs a node 100% of the time
Well put together, and good to see some Bard talk. Gripe first –
:: The AoE DoT thing is at the top of the greatest hits list of "bad Bard takes that never die". Do not just put up two DoTs on AoE pulls. You will have a bad time.
You want to apply as many as you can while running up to the mobs (before you're in QN range anyway), prioritizing Storms. On chain pulls this usually amounts to 4-6+ DoTs before you could ever press Nock anyway. Then you can toss the Shadowbite on a central target at the end, and can add a couple more if you think the pack will last a while.
When you do that, Apex is much more frequent and impactful. And it makes the idea of an AoE DoT silly – that accomplishes very little gameplay-wise, it'd just be generally overpowered to roughly double the DoTs we can get up. It would let us Nock sooner on the rare forced single pull, but why are we excited about pressing Nock sooner?
Pitch Perfect is also pretty functional in AoE in a lot of cases, too. 450 potency, even single target, is quite a lot when it's filling up as fast as it does when you multi-DoT. It's good to bring down mobs that are floating at higher HP so that they aren't left straggling at the end.
:: Army's actually makes you faster than Ninja speed. It is lame, but it'd be really hard to come up with another song effect that isn't too similar to the others. If they could, I'd rather see it added as a fourth 110s song to align us better with the usual buff cycles.
:: In-combat Peloton is a pretty common ask, not that wild at all.
:: Bloodletter charges are a universal demand that has made varying levels of sense since 2.00. It was stunning that they added charges to the game and didn't give them to BL, that skill was the poster child for having charges in the game.
The actual biggest reason for it now, moreso than the occasional double proc, is the EA auto-proc. The decision tree rabbit hole of when you should press vs. hold EA, vs. clip the GCD etc. under Mage's Ballad is actually disgusting and not at all reasonable. We're talking 0.2s DoT tick timer windows where you do something different here.
:: The acceleration idea would be similar to pre-5.x Bard's ability to gain increases proc rates off of snapshotting crit buffs. I don't think it'd be possible to do it in a way that doesn't snapshot a full 30s, so tuning hard etc. But, something in that vein would let us have some semblance of a burst outside of just-Barrage, which is among Bard's balancing issues in 5.x.
BRD is a simple class. It’s primarily focused around maintaining our two dots on the targets, as that dictates most of our kit. As nice as it would be to have an aoe dot, or even a dot spreader, it would make the class way too easy.
For Bard AoE, it sounds like you want something similar to how Summoner spreads DoTs using Bane.
Just saying, I really like your RDM glamour.
I feel like most of Bard’s issues come from just how much it relies on RNG procs. Some encounters hit all the procs constantly and you’re at the top of dps and other fights nothing procs and you’re at the bottom and there’s very little you can do to change that as a player
I think bards should gain the benefit of their songs since Dragoon gets the effect of Battle Litany but Bard doesn’t get the effect of Wanderer’s/Mage’s/Army’s besides them singing it.
Just give me Bard Bane and I will be happy. DoT one enemy twice, propagate it, then song and spam.
In the benchmark we see something that looks like AOE Refulgent Arrow but we can’t be too sure until September