Intro – 00:00
ARR – 01:27
Heavensward – 18:32
Stormblood – 29:00
Shadowbringers – 46:18
Endwalker – 1:04:06
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I hope you'll consider SCH for the next retrospective, while all the SMN details are still fresh in your mind for comparisons.
I think Shadowbringers just completely ruined Scholar; just look at all those fun skills both SCH and SMN lost…
While I'm glad the pets don't die so easily now, every single other change just added frustration (e.g. the Aetherflow change) or removed all the fun from the job…
Gonna be a lot of butt hurt in the comments for this one.
I miss aoe dots…. 😢
Tbh, Summoner should be the top mage in terms of DPS if we are going to strictly follow the lore of summoner on the entire FF franchise..
Really hoping for leviathan, shiva, and ramuh for 7.0. Hopefully it makes the rotation slightly more interesting.
Shoutout to all my other Day 1 Summoners!!
I have super fond memories of saving a Leveling roulette as a SMN. HW had recently come out, and the roulette gods had decided that I was going into Brayflox NM for my tome harvesting that day. We suddenly found that our tank was taking a lot of damage, and was having trouble keeping aggro. Eventually, we realized that our tank was a Gladiator, and for refresher, Brayflox NM is the first dungeon where folks are jobbed up. Tanks also didn't get their tank stance on the class, they got it on their job.
The healer had their job cut out for them, but as we reached Boss #2, they couldn't keep up, and the healer and I were spending a lot of mana resing the tank. Our sweet sprout tank was obviously new to the game, so we asked if they knew they could grab paladin quests. They said they did know they could become a Paladin, but they got the game wanting to be a Dark Knight, and as such, not knowing the dynamics of the game, intentionally avoided grabbing Paladin so they could pick up Dark Knight, the job they wanted to play. The group let our good sprout know that they weren't going to be able to clear much more content without jobbing up, and our sprout was thankful, but we still had a dungeon to clear.
Alright. Goodbye Garuda-Egi, hello chicky nuggy. I let the party know that I'm going to tank with Titan, and let the healer know that our good rocky boi isn't going to have nearly enough mit to work as a normal tank, so we're going to have our work cut out for eachother. Navigating Aiatar out of poison pools, using Phsyick and the pet regen button to keep Titan alive and supplement our WHM, all while at least trying to keep DoTs on Aiatar got us through the dungeon and is still my favorite achievement as a SMN in the game. I don't miss the pet micro in the day to day, I enjoyed the DoT gameplay even while I like 6.0 SMN more, but the flexibility to do things like this? I'll have very fond memories for the rest of my time.
I have a boatload of memories of losing tanks in dungeons and whipping out Topaz/Titan to do the job. And of course Titan tanking Ramuh ex to bypass orbs. I get why they eventually made pets invincible and untargettable (truly a blessing, resummoning/placing pets was a pain) but I also miss the concept of a tank pet. I was also a big fan of the dot based gameplay (was a former affliction warlock back in TBC days) and hope they reintroduce another dot-class in the future as Bard barely fills in this niche at present.
If you think that this version of SMN is going to get more dynamic in 7.0 is your high on copium.
Really think about it here, if they add the three missing primals they will be 1:1 model/vfx replacements.
– Leviathan for example is known in his fights to "Dash" across the arena, as well as "Slam/Smash" into it. This lines up with Ifrit's Crimson Cyclone and Crimson Strike.
– Ramuh "Leaves Behind" an orb "After an AoE", fitting Garuda's Slipsteam, and lighting is known to be quick fitting the insta-casts.
– Shiva "Alternates" between sword and magic stances, just like the player "Alternates" pressing gemshine and astral flow.
These "Summons" will be learned at 92, 94, and 98. Not only that they will swap out ever Phoenix/Bahamut summon. Level 96 will be the obligatory damage buff Trait, and level 100 will be a Trait that requires the summoner to summon each primal in succession to upgrade bahamut which may grant a use of an extra button.
To me the job is dead boring and no longer fun to play, spamming the same Gemshine over and over again is not good gameplay, yes there was Ruin spam, but That monotony was broken up with the aid of Egi-Assults and the fact that Ruins were Casts meaning you did not really have to spam press. I did try to give the change a go at it, but I found the gameplay boring and was actually injuring my thumb on controller due to the Gemshine spamming. I Really do not think it was right to uproot a job that some players were enjoying and leave them with no alternative option of similar gameplay. I am really hoping that the next job is a caster as the current pool is down to just Red Mage and Black Mage (Summoner is not a caster, it's a physical range. Claiming it to be caster would be the same as saying Samurai is a caster and not a melee due to Iaijutsu casts). And while a DoT mage would be great, I would rather have the gameplay of the job be top priority in its design unlike current summoner.
Man. I super love the new Summoner.
Egi-Ivy need your attention
Debuff limit was 30 until a patch that made it 60, with 30 displayed.
Searing Light is still there, and it's linked to the presence of Carbuncle, not the same but still. I do regret when the little guy used to walk up to the boss and just stare at them 🙂 but I also enjoy the new SMN. Curious to see how it will evolve in 7.0
I really miss having a DoT centric job. Hopefully they’ll add one in 7.0
Honestly for 7.0 summoner I could see them changing one instance of the 3 summons to 3 other summons too (with the same or slightly similar actions just different names + animations)so it would go Ifrit-Titan-Garuda -> Bahamut -> New1 – New2 – New3 -> Phoenix . What summons they choose? Well my ideas would probably be…
ARR Summons: They could just pick Leviathan (with a water based "slipstream" aoe), Ramuh (with lightning aoe -> shock strike 1-2's) and Shiva (long cast brand hits, maybe into a quick step ice aoe (rush) into diamond dust aoe), maybe even a swap on Shiva/Ramuh (ie Shiva has a 1-2 like Titan instead, Ice Brand aoe into falling ice aoe or vice versa, Ramuh into a long cast Shock Strikes and a lightning jump into his point blank).
HW Summons: I they would probably go more with the warring triad since Ravana-Bismarck-Thordan seems weird to me.
Sephirot as the Garuda alt (Emerald/Green), Sophia as the Titan alt (Topaz/Amber), Zurvan as the Ifrit alt (Ruby/Red) since it would mean little to no change to the UI gems/colours. Skill-wise: Sephirot would have one of his persistent puddles as a slipstream alt, Sophia could have her green lightning TB and like a weight drop (or vice versa) as a 1-2, Zurvan could have a Soar dash (ah memories of "skip soar") into his share aoe animation as his ifrit dash-hit alternative.
Heck it could fit with the recent fiends: Barbariccia as the Garuda alt (Emerald/Green), Scarmiglione as the Titan alt (Topaz/Amber), Rubicante as the Ifrit alt (Ruby/Red). Skillwise: Barbariccia with Hair/Tornado ground aoe, Scarmiglione with a brain rot sort of 1-2, Rubicante with maybe a cloak dash into a fire aoe, or fires a fireball, teleports to it into a fire aoe.
They could also change what they do a little on this alt summons phase which might make it a lil more weird to play (ie if one of the new summons didn't have a dash/jump to, it would make ifrit's dash even weirder in the rotation). Personally I could see the HW/EW summons being more likely as it just fits the three summon colours more nicely. Heck even if they don't use this it might be cool (if they can have the animations timed out the same) to be just "/summonglamour", if they were mad enough to do the work on another visual thing for summoners.
Obviously all of this is speculation and ideas from me but if they want to add more summons to summoner without changing too much to the current cycle, I don't think this is too much of a bad idea.
Oh yeah, didn't ShB SMN have the memed "2 Minute opener"?
Honestly, as someone who was only able to dabble into end game SMN rotation before EW. I kind of miss ShB SMN. Hopefully we get more Summons in 7.0 (maybe Phoenix gives access to a new 3 aside from Ifrit/Garuda/Titan, but that's a far distant hope).
Let me summon Odinnn
Let me summon Ramuhhh
even if just cosmetically!! I don't wanna resolt to crimes for that!!
Am I the only one that wishes that instead of homogenizing everything they just kept the fast pace nuanced aggressiveness of heavensward and stormblood like I really digged that summons used skills on their own accord (stormblood) but if u really wanted efficient dmg you'd manually proc certain skills
the OG stream clips! mannnnn thats awesome you have that stuff still
Expanding on the Ifrit and Titan damage calculations. They dealt blunt damage (with Garuda dealing magic) in ARR which could be buffed by Monk’s dragon kick. So if a monk was in your party you could use Ifrit instead of Garuda who was often the go-to pet during the latter half of ARR. By HW all pets were adjusted to do magic damage, taking away that synergy with Monk.
I miss AOE DOTs Summoner.
The people who do balance and reworks HATE Dots it feels like
EDIT: Added a bigger post to talk about my thoughts on SMN after the Sustain change mention.
You forgot one little thing about SMN in Heavensward. Sustain was no longer a spell that healed your pet by sacrificing a portion of your HP. It was changed into a HoT that healed 8% every tick 10 times, meaning it would heal the pet for a total of 80% HP. It made the self-sustainability of SMNs during solo stuff or during emergency moments in dungeons much better not to mention it removed a huge issue for SMNs to keep their pets alive in raid content since they had an easy 'fire and forget' button for keeping their pet alive.
Also I'd like to add my opinions as someone that basically has been a SMN main from the beginning since I joined in the early days of Heavensward.
HW SMN was quite interesting and it was really neat having the ability to have a tank pet around that could be very handy in various moments. It was indeed pretty much a DoT Mage back then with having to use Contagion with Tri-Disaster during DWT. Garuda was indeed the king of all 3 pets to use at the time with Titan usually being for solo stuff or emergency moments.
SB SMN was quite fun just with the fact we actually had a actual 'summon' of sort in the form of Demi-Bahamut. The DoT Mage trend was still very much prevalent in that expansion. Though one of the bigger issues in HW and in SB was the heavy risk of massively messing up the rotation if you missed getting an Aethertrail due to a Fester missing the DoTs on the boss. As you mentioned during the video, the damage calculation between physical and magical damage back then made Garuda remain among the top spot for the pet to use in general. Titan still retained somewhat of a place as a tank pet…however that place was heavily threatened by the fact that while Titan can build up aggro rather okay, he cannot taunt…which is a huge thing to keep in mind since when you summoned Bahamut, he would despawned, losing all his built aggro on your target which only meant that when he respawned after Bahamut left, he could no longer really tank for you since he couldn't really catch up to your now-higher amount of aggro that you had, even when using Diversion and Lucid Dreaming.
For ShB SMN, the early days of ShB retained that 'Fester-like' aspect due to how you needed your DoTs to be on the target so that your Ruin spells would do proper damage, however DoT management did become a bit easier thanks to Tri-Disaster getting many reset opportunities during a boss fight. During a SMN rotation in ShB, you'd basically have to refresh your DoTs manually only once in the 2 min rotation window. The rest of the time your DoTs were refreshed using Tri-Disaster. But missing the DoTs somewhat still sucked badly.
But the major pet changes made it so that the whole pet tank aspect was no more which made some older content a bit harder to solo as SMN. Another detail about the pets was that if you used Egi-Assault 1 with Titan out, you would not get a Ruin 4 stack since the only way to proc the stack was from a successful attack. That meant that using Titan actually gimped your overall DPS vs Garuda and Ifrit. However the pet changes brought forth the rise of Ifrit as the primary damage pet for SMNs in ShB. Due to how you basically had to spam the Egi-Assaults in your rotation, Garuda's Slipstream would not work well in that situation.
The other really notable thing was the massive APM requirements to play SMN at its best.
Heck, early ShB SMN even caused some issues during the Eden's Gate Savage World First race with at least one group's caster switching from SMN to BLM because his fingers were hurting too much due to the crazy piano opener SMNs had.
Fortunately in the major patches following ShB's release, SMN got some much appreciated tweaks that made the job a complex yet impressive powerhouse of a job, capable of leaving both BLM and RDM in the dust.
And then there's the big rework that SMN got with Endwalker. I'll be honest, I LOVE the change even if it means that SMN lost its no1 caster DPS spot it had in ShB alongside losing its DoT Mage identity. The job now actually feels like you're playing a classic FF Summoner, which is a rather important thing since every job in FF14 is well adjusted to make you feel like you're probably playing something matching the identity of the FF job in question.
Yes, the job is overall a lot easier to play than the crazy thing it was in ShB, but if you're observant, you'll realize that there's moment where you can do some clever adjusting in fights to make your DPS better in that specific fight. In other words, SMN now has a bit of that BLM-esque fight-knowledge requirement to optimize its rotation.
I really do hope we get to use the other 3 main classic Summons in the next expansion as it could indeed be a great buildup on the new SMN foundation that the job has with Endwalker.
Current Summoner is the foundation for growth in future expansions imo.
About the Carbuncle does now is stare at you like a lobotomized idiot while you’re in combat… meanwhile, even with re-writes, the Arcanist 10 and 15 Class Quests still lay heavily into the “summon Topaz to shield you!” thing, even though it’s no longer a Tank or Shield Caster and isn’t even a “minion” technically until level 50 and you unlock the glamour options. At the very least, he should still do a ranged auto-attack (ironically, like my GC Squadron Arcanist still does, along with certain other missed abilities) and you be able to choose between single hit or AoE, so at least he’s useful for something other than throwing a shield on you (only when he’s around) or letting you “summon” other things (to which, he goes away) and letting you do most of your own attacks (which frankly, since they’re coming from you and not him, he technically isn’t even needed to be there, but they made it so you can’t use them unless he is which frankly makes no sense… I can see “you summon Titan through your Carbuncle”, but it still replaces him for that time…) …so, I’m not a fan of Carbuncle being reduced to mascot status more or less, at least let him be your ranged auto-attack instead of you having to close in to Book-Bonk range… after all, Bard, Dancer, and Machinist have a ranged auto-attack (but I do see the issue, since Black Mage, White Mage, Sage, and Scholar have the same melee auto-attack restriction and would be unfair if Summoner was the only one to have a ranged auto-attack outside of the “Physical” ranged, which is why they have it). But hey, pipe dreaming. It would also be fun if at the least at Level 90 you could have Shiva-Egi, Rhamu-Egi, and Leviathan-Egi as Carbuncle Glamours, or even a white or purple (Amethyst) Carbuncle just to round out the colors (and I know my friend who mains Summoner wishes she could have a purple carbuncle to match her outfit). After all, SPOILER AHEAD all the primals come to your aid in reaching the edge of the universe, and is why you can “full summon” at level 90 and your previous glamours on the three of them are rendered null and void (to my knowledge, though I’m yet to reach 90 myself so I could be VERY wrong) since you can’t make full size Titan or the others come out as Egi or Carbuncles, only level 16-88 content (89 dungeon caps you at 90)… so, it would be nice! Or a Phoenix-Egi glamour, or a Demi-Bahamut-Egi glamour… So many possibilities, as you said, Mr. Happy. I just hope they at least give us more glamour options, even if you have to be 90 to do it!
Watching this just makes me so depressed with how lazy the devs have gotten