FFXIV Don’t Talk About Fight Club or FFLOGs | Work To Game
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Final Fantasy XIV has a policy on parsing, and that policy is wrong. Let’s talk about our experience with FFlogs and FFXIV Analytics. If you need help getting set up with this software, be sure to check out @Desperius FFXIV
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I have 14 for both pc and ps4 but I mainly play on ps4 since it not really any lag there unlike my experience on pc
All we need is a non-broadcasted Battle report. You can review it at any time, it pops up after the final fight if an instance, just tells you all your stats as discussed here. If you choose to tell people, you can, but no need to.
If you care about how you are doing, you can see it. If you don't care, have a toggle setting for it so it doesn't pop up.
People honestly just need to grow up.
I will always find it funny when people yell "harassment" or "cyber bullying" when you mention their DPS.
If they go out of their way to find you and tell you time and time again that you suck etc, sure, but if you join a party, underperform, get called out and then cry "Harassment!" or "cyber bullying" then you're just wrong, leave and blacklist if you're so butt hurt (i swear, people in todays age wouldn't survive 5 minutes in an Xbox Live game chat in CoD MW2, if you can survive that, you'll never complain about others being "toxic" you'll learn to either, let it go … or retaliate, i always love some trash talk, keeps things fresh, but nowadays instead of saying something back they'll instantly go cry and yell "harassment!")
i believe it will bring toxicity, every game that has dps matters has a lvl of toxicity I will give some examples coz I have raid for many years in many different games and I have seen things like that go all over the place
example number one. instead of just having a ilvl requirement or complete the trial on practice run before you can join the clear group you will see people adding things like also bring 15k dps or else you will be kicked even you can kill the boss with less dmg and most of the times the people who will ask for high dps number are the people who underperform in my experience. people will ask you to link you FF longs to get invites and more stupid things like that . Also, people will start saying stupid things like … i do 20 k dps with my summoner and you are a blm and you do 17 k dps omg noob can we plz kick this blm guys he is underperforming….
All of the above happened to games that i have raided, it never bothered me coz i was never at the receiving end but i never approved that behavior.
With all that been said i have to say that I do raid in ff and i do savage content and we use ACT and we compare our selves with others and see our mistakes and we try to improve as a party ACT can be used to make you a better player but if SE leaves it unchecked then it can get out of control easy….
Also, the game has a way to tell if you are ready to do Savage content there are some target dummies outside of Eulomre specifically designed for each job and for each boss, if you can kill the dummy within the time limit you can kill the actual raid boss you just have to practice in the real fight after that…just practice your rotation there
P.S Sorry for the long post and for my bad English
I am like you Brian, I will use this to fine tune my rotation and improve. Same thing I did in ESO. I just stared FFXIV last week so not needed yet. In ESO it’s pretty much mandatory to have a parse report with x amount of DPS on x dummy to do certain end game content. And that’s not being toxic it’s just a fact – you needed to output at least that or you couldn’t clear the content. The real-time counter was helpful as it gave us a measure of overall DPS so it was pretty easy to tell if we were going to be able to clear the content.
I have yet to bother with ACT myself, though my brother has, just out of his own curiosity on what sort of outcomes the stat readings have, and I've been mildly curious about my own when I've been with him in raids and trials, just because it's sometimes interesting to know. So I do kind of agree it would be nice to have built into the game, and something you can opt to turn on or off as you please. I wonder if maybe it could be a more acceptable thing if its comparisons were always kind of a vague thing like that 77.7 was. You rank X% on your datacenter or server, and maybe within your given party after the fact, but it never tells you who's above you, never tells you who's below, never tells you anything specific about the others your with so that people can not easily use that info against others. Its your info compared to a nebulous average other, and nothing else. If you want to compare with the others, THEY have to give you their info for the comparison. Which could then be how the parties could see who needs to improve in what so they can work on that together.
This is why I comment less lately on W2G, some followers here are really disrespectful to anyone who disagree with their viewpoint. Ginger Prime I don't experience this, I'm disappointed by those people.
I would love to have an alternative on Playstation. I am doing the Alliance raid (lvl 80) and the Eden normal in order to see my mistakes and how can I improve – but the only way for me to get that information is to ask a guildie to come with me and parse. People will always find ways of being toxic, I just wish SE will build ways to get that information out of the game itself so that we, console players, won't be at a disadvantage. The combination between fflogs and xivanalyzer it's amazing at providing context on how you handled yourself.
I’ve managed to clear e9s and e10s on PF and find it useful looking at fflogs after to see how I did. I don’t use a parser though, but don’t feel against them as long as people don’t flame others for bad dps 😀
If S-E ever reversed course and allowed parsers, I'd quit raiding entirely. I will not ever allow myself to be dictated to by some 13-year-old jackass with a Napoleon complex.
S-E needs to 1) come down harder on these 3rd party apps and 2) dial it back on these ridiculous mechanics that makes raids inaccessible to 9/10 of the population.
I think it being an in game feature would be a bad shout. You say that toxic people are already toxic, but introduce this and you're not creating toxic people you're creating a toxic culture. Give people an in game way to grade performance and it will become a benchmark available to all that will become the default means by which to judge others. People in the comments here are already talking like "so long as we don't direct it at the person involved it's ok to laugh about them behind their backs" as if that isn't seen as bitchy when done in real life. We're very lucky at the moment that most players don't use damage meters.
I use dps meters in wow like this I want to know if I personally am holding us back I dont care if the other peoples numbers are bad I just care if I am doing well and without those numbers i actually dont know how good/bad i am actually doing in 14. As far as the trolls attacking about bad numbers I just ignore them but if someone approaches it as hey your numbers are low because your doing x and you should be doing y that's great to me it's how I learn
I do wish they would make something available, and they would make it cross platform as well. It's frustrating being on PS4 and not even having the option to do this. I'd love to have the information I need to improve. If the devs are so concerned about bullying perhaps they could make a private, authorized parser, that doesn't record party members' fight information but only personal DPS/Heal/Damage taken, so that people can get that information for themselves at least. It wouldn't give you as full of a picture, but it would be something, and surely the devs couldn't ague it would lead to bullying then…
A lot of people are coming at this from a self improvement aspect, and everyone that has stated that is correct.
But it appears that a some people are really forgetting the another important aspect of why parses are used: for higher level content, it really points out issues in a raid group when it comes to overall needed damage. The issue with people in this game is that any mention of parsing and asking why someone's dps is so low is that it is automatically associated with being attacked personally and that the person asking is being toxic. That isn't always the case. If you are progging content and hitting enrages consistently like 2-3% behind and then you notice a/or member(s) is/are doing well below average what their class should be doing and the group is doing all the uptime strats, having no deaths, yadayada, it honestly isn't a matter of being toxic, it's a matter of fact that unless something is fixed then there's a big possibility that the fight will not be a clear. As raid fatigue sets in more too from that, those pulls lead to people leaving like dominoes and possibly having a bad experience. Not everyone that inquires is trying to be toxic, they are trying to clear content. Content has actual set amounts of damage that needs to be met to clear content. It is pretty clear cut if you don't meet that number as a group, you aren't clearing it. So many people seem to honestly disregard that part of the conversation imo. And let's not even get into the fact that even the possiblity of mentioning parsing in a perceived negative light might result in some sort of punishment from the devs.
This doesn't dismiss the fact that people using parsers can't be toxic. It most certainly happens and I've seen it too. I have had a friend who joined a party and was immediately kicked because low logs and it devestated them because they felt at a certain point no one wanted to even give them a chance. I'm just saying trying to put it out there that the general attitude from both ends of that spectrum need to honestly go through changes. Being afraid to say things such as dps for fear of band is lopsided toxic power that one side holds and printed people not wanting to say anything. It's generally sad to see that we as a community are so distrusting that we usually go immediately to thinking people have the worst intentions.
Hey guys! Currently rank 1 SAM (Luxanna Illuminaria) on FFXIV/FFLOGS and from my experiences, I’d say a majority of even the top 99th percentile parsers have the same mentality of self improvement Brian has and what keeps us interested and invested in the game. I think it’s definitely a case of a few outspoken bad apples that make the hardcore parsing/optimization community have such a rift with the casual community, but a lot of us constantly talk about how we can introduce more people into the high end/“hardcore” sphere – even to the extent of setting up systems to mentor others that want to play the game at an extremely high level. It makes me really happy that you’re dipping your toes into parsing/optimizing your play because I think there’s such a negative stigma around the topic when it’s brought up around people that play the game casually. I think there’s an untapped facet of the game that many people may deeply enjoy but ever explore because of the negative air around parsing and how it’s “very negative” for the game.
I see my metaphor a comment ages past really took root. 😁
how? how can you not see that is doesn't take a lot of people to ruin the game?
People were making excuses for a bad behavior of certain popular streamer because "he's a purple parser", or whatever other excuse for bad behavior
how many people were denied an Ishgard ranking because of a few bad actors?
How many people still don't have houses because of the actions of a few bad actors way back in the day?
And how can you have talked about parsers up to today if you really didn't know what was it all about?
I do admit it's pretty satisfying when you first start getting serious about your fflog parses, I started out as a grey pld in SB, had a nasty start with fflog because of the "drunk uncle", but later met nicer players who showed me how to use fflog to improve myself and I slowly went from grey to green to blue within the same raid tier, then shb got dropped and when the new raid tier started I was suddenly parsing purple in savage and yellow in casual content. Do mind I never installed act and am fully reliant on other people posting parses, but I will admit that currently with e12s p1 I'm seeing a rise in "dps monitoring" and I blame the core idea of what door bosses are in the first place, e12s currently even at 515 ilvl is very tight on dps which means that a lot of parties who are looking to clear p1 or go practice p2 are constantly worried about the dps check and I have seen a lot more players getting kicked in e12s because of low dps then in any previous fights this expansion and that is because only e12s gatekeeps progress behind an other dps check. Do mind I like the concept of the door boss as applied in e12s, but I think the developers should not make the dps check so tight if they are so against dps meters in the first place. What I think they could do in regard to a door boss is make the boss heal about 10% of it's hp then repeat a mechanic, I know dps check exist to prevent fights taking hours but that's what the instance timer is for, if the boss simply extended the fight it would make mistake less punishing and change the nature of the dps check.
I parse when i bring up a new class for lvl 80 content. DRK being my latest, used The Balance discord for all the nice information for BiS And then use Etro.gg to actually ensure when im melding my not BiS gear that it goes over the next tier for my increases. really handy and wish it was more of an option. ACT can also have Catbot installed which gives access to a plugin called Whoopsdaisy, which covers the, you got hit by avoidable damage check. and allows you to see who in your party got hit by what and for how much, will also tell you killing blows during a fight so those "what killed me" moments are less likely and help you understand the fight better. I've never seen ACT used to bully players and im sorry that this happens to some people. Just know its the minority of players and only the people who were toxic to start that will give flame for mistakes and bad parses.
Having a decent parse encouraged me to play savage. Knowing my damage would help in the fight and that I would not be a burden was the goal. Also showed me my opener and rotation needed practice.
One thing you didn't seem to catch is kinda what Chris was talking about. If you look in ff logs, I mean you can pretty much find anything and everything.
It shows you who has most aggro in the given time. It shows you who takes damage and by what, the timeframe of when they died, how long they died. Their exact HP in a given moment. Their exact healing in a given moment. (So for example you can see every single dot tick heal and for how much and on who, and their exact HP number at that time) As you also saw there, it shows you what your most damaging ability is etc. And with the graphs it can also show you how your damage fluctuates. Like a burst phase for example. As a summoner sometimes I hold my dots for party buffs. And it helps me gauge if it's an increase or not. Speaking of party buffs, it can also show how often your buffs are up and how much damage they increase.
And then one point that I feel really hits home. In terms of savage especially, some jobs kinda require you to have this info. For example, some abilities only block magic/physical damage. And if you aren't getting like a debuff. There's really no way for you to know. Furthermore, jobs like ast, drg, and dnc are focused on buffing dmg. Of course, there are general rules. But what if a certain fight, makes blm do more damage than the sam. As dnc you wouldn't know if you couldn't see it. Or what if that fight, despite being more favored in BLM, the sam can't outperform. they could be doing a wrong rotation or just playing poorly. Or just not having the knowledge. Gear is another factor. etc
Cries in PS4
Ahhhhh Brian, welcome to the dark side!!!!
I do agree with you, the game doesn't include the analytics needed to properly improve yourself. The in game version of a dps meter, SSS is very innacurate and also does nothing to teach a player what they can improve on.
I hope as you delve into this new world of running content, that you enjoy optimization as much as I do, and you reach for the stars!!
I think the community struggles with this who's more toxic? The guy who joins a weekly savage clear(not learning) and way underperforms consistently or the guy who calls him out?
It should be banned. Period. It's a game. Chill. It's a major reason we have so boring classes right now. Looking at you, healers and tanks.
I came from DC UNIVERSE ONLINE, which naturally had DPS, HPS, and Protection scorecards built into each dungeon and raid. It was weird not having it when I first came to FF14 back in 2013 when ARR launched.
Brian is exactly how the meters should be run. Not used as a means to put people down, but to make people aware of the places they can personally improve.
Such passion
Let’s be clear about one thing, a parser is as needed for a successful run as a crowbar is to an unlocked door. If the door is locked, then the crowbar may well be useful.
I personally don’t use them, but people in my static certainly do. If it helps them, I am glad. My metric is success. A win is a win, whether it is done within a nanosecond of an enrage or a minute.
The game needs to just give us an in game parser that only tracks our personal performance. Let us measure ourselves against ourselves.
I wouldn't mind it if my character name wasn't automatically posted. That's my business, nobody else's. If this is a tool for self improvement, make it only for people who want their information out. I clear content, I don't know what I rate as and I don't care, but the fact that it exists at all offends me.
Everyone knows that parsing/logs/metering is "not allowed" but they've not done anything about it. And they have it that way because those 'toxic people' you're talking about, the only thing keeping them remotely in-line, is the fact they can be banned for being a piece of garbage to someone else and using 'logs' to do it.
Parse yourself, meter yourself, that's fine. But if you're using it as a cudgel to smash someone over the head with and force them to play the way you think is best, you're an asshole.