***THIS IS A REUPLOAD DUE TO ISSUES WITH FIRST UPLOAD, SORRY***
Guests: Serenaya & Llamatodd
Discussion: The FFXIV community has been known to take criticism a little more harshly than other communities, which roots from multiple reasons. We bring on two guests that have dealt with the blow back from that recently and dive into the topic on what’s going on. In the end, it turned into more of a therapy session between the three of us, but was a ton of fun either way!
Rating: 10/10
ENJOYYYYYYYYYYY
Guest Socials:
Serenaya’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/SerenayaCarrin
Serenaya’s Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/serenaya_carrin
Llamatodd’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/llamatodd
Llamatodd’s Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/llamatodd
Show Socials:
MogTalk’s Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MogTalk
MogTalk’s Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MogTalk
Frosty’s Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/FrostyTVstream
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My biggest problem when it comes to criticism and the defense thereof is that each side of that argument loves to invent strawmen and present them as the representative of the majority opinion.
There are critics who will make defenders out to be a monolith of sycophantic fanboys who can't tolerate any criticism, from the most problematic to the most trivial.
There are defenders who will make critics out to be a bunch of seething neckbeards who are playing this game because they hate themselves.
There are constructive, vital criticisms of FFXIV that absolutely need to be voiced. And those criticisms should be heard. By that same token, not every bit of criticism thrown at FFXIV is something I would consider reasonable.
Let's take housing, for instance: Is it a fair criticism to say that housing, as it stands, is in a very rough spot with way fewer houses than there are players, and that walls off an entire set of content from a majority of players? Absolutely! Is it a fair criticism that the person or people on the development team who are responsible for housing should get punished somehow? Absolutely not. And there are fringe people on both extremes. A fringe extreme on one side loves the exclusivity of having a house and, if you don't have one, sad day for you. Just try harder. Then another fringe extreme is that the devs in charge of housing should be fired and the whole thing rebuilt from the ground up with a new team.
Do those fringe extremes represent a majority opinion on either side? Absolutely not. But the strawmen constructed to conflate an extreme and moderate take are absolutely wild.
The whole "criticism vs defense" debate is why I stopped using Twitter and will no longer go on Reddit. You're either operating at 100 or -100. There is no middle ground recognized on this battlefield.
@19:17
if there is shitty specs, that you cannot play, because nobody wants them in the party.
for all intents and purposes, that spec dont exist, so why should the devs waste time doing them?
This community is just plain weird, the more i play and fall in the love with this game. I look at the loud minority in the community and shake my head. Game needs alot of work. But people need to take a break and chill till Dawntrail. Everyone else whos still playing, go do a ultimate or catch-up on old content and have a great time
LOL and the thing is i read alot of the responses on llamatodds twitter and yes that one guy did put up metrics on ppl not watching him and yes they put up the metrics. the responses to him were cringe yet funny at the same time. was eating good on popcorn that night xD
This is the main reason I quit is because the fanbase is so stubborn in not taking constructive criticism, not only that but they will ATTACK you for it. I love FF but god damn… I'm playing WoW.
The fanbase has become a bunch of complacent losers man, act like we can’t criticize the game lol
I don't think there is enough irony in the world to have three guys complain about people being emotional and defensive to then turn around 3 minutes later and get emotional and defensive. There are plenty of valid points being brought up here, but presenting yourself as so above it all is just weirdly offputting.
Sorry man not watching anything in relation to Llamaweirdo. Dude needs a massive reality check.
im a shadowbab, i remember watching llama when i first started raiding and his stream had a great atmosphere, i hope DT is as good as we all want and he is back enjoying it alot again.
You guys want to be able to call out what you see as stupid but when we can't call out your stupid takes without being labelled as "ffxiv defense foeces" ? Funny how that work.
Telling Todd not to read someone's name is part of the larger problem. Those of us that are sick of the insecure gatekeepers aren't allowed to call these people out and deal with the problem. We aren't stopped by the whining degenerates that tie themselves up in a videogame so hard that any perceived negative statement becomes a personal attack against them, we're stopped by the rest of their victims, which is stupid.
These people will publicly call you out, insult you, and damage your reputation. Refraining from dragging them out into the sunlight only helps them hurt you.
More responsive controles would be awesome.
Think i would hate talents in xiv.
While each group fights over limited resources content wise, it's important to have a balance.
28:56 I might be tripping here, BUTT I am pretty sure I've heard someone ask Yoshi P this question before. And his answer was something like in order for us to fix the latency issue, it would require us to have to game on pause for a whole year, and have a all hands on deck situation, meaning all updates would stop for a whole year. Basically killing the game for a year. Then again I might be tripping but I am kind of sure I saw a clip like that.
Thanks for having me on again, Frosty!
This is very much a case of "if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it." We are not referring to criticism of opinions that are just that – criticism. That is normal, human and healthy. We are discussing the variety of overly-defensive, emotion-fuelled, take-a-bullet style corporate phallus-sucking that occurs from some whenever we or others have something negative to say about the game, and why that's a problem for both the game and the community. It is normal to complain because you care, and want it to be better.
I feel like this is a bit of one side calling out the other.
There's strong negativity, toxic stances and very emotional arguing. There's a huge point to be made that the reactions they get from the minority is the same as their venting here.
Immense amount of strawmanning, and assumptions being made on all parts.
Im gonna bite the bullet… I enjoy the 2 minute meta, partially
What I don't enjoy about the 2 minute meta is the ramifications from it, and as a disclaimer, I have been playing from late-shadowbringers so I didn't get to experience the non 2-minute era that came before
Pros:
– I can swap jobs more comfortably and by following similar guidelines of, build resources, burst on 1 and 2 minutes, I can have a decent skill floor across MOST jobs
– I can tell when a player is having issues or drifting when I notice their burst is not lined up, and I can help them or offer advice
– I can talk with my team about delayed burst windows more comfortably as we all have the same timing for it
– SE can design intense mechanics to line up to 2 min windows to spice things up, wich is something I enjoyed a lot on P9 and P10 prog
Cons:
– I can't get gear for all the jobs I want to play now that is easier to swap (This only matters for the tomestone armor pieces, savage could afford to make accesories cheaper, and relics…. thats another can of worms)
– Classes feel same-y, especially tanks
– The fun gets optimized out of encounters a lot faster, there is a lot less thinking when everyone bursts at the same time
– Deaths feel like a "oh well, I guess this run is dead" as buffs get missaligned and gauges are reset before the 2 min windows
– Classes with outliar damage rotations have been unplugged, like Paladin, that had a more "consistent" damage, and had their damage moved to burst windows to comply with the 2 min meta (While I personaly enjoy the 6.3 PLD, I know old players felt shattered and I get that)
My 2 cents on how they could improve on it:
– Make classes feel less same-y, OUTSIDE OF COMBAT. Take a lesson from racials and the toy box from WoW, give Dragoon a double jump, give Paladin the res out of combat back, give Warrior a reverse-provoke Roar that makes world enemies run away, give scholar a pencil to draw on the boss arenas, give astrologian the ability to read fortune for the day, etc etc… Its the little touches that give life to a job, without the need to throw a wrench in the endgame balance they have pushed for
Addling onto this, if you are the crafter of your group of friends, you know that fuzzy feeling when someone asks if you can repair for them, thats what I'm getting at, give players tools to have interations beyond "o/" and "gg tyfp" in dungeons
– [Insert 2 pages of text about making Gear more accesible for alt jobs]
Having balance be meta swinging in FFXIV specifically would be horrible for the game. Not because of class popularity or fotm but because from a design stand point the archetype pool for each position is extremely shallow. It would basically cut the job sets in half (going my gear set types). An example of some clases being bad and some being good but it works is WoW and SWTOR. Every class has 3 different distinct ways to play in those games. Some designed fot pve, some for pvp, and some for open world but lackluster in both. This works because of the generic talent trees (i know wow recently overhauled theirs in drsgonflight) that change with the spec. This also makes balance s nightmare, forget class balance these devs can hardly balance their encounters without having to send out hundred of nerfs because they cant take in every variable properly.
The amount of resources it would take to have them redesign gearing, adding alternative styles to each class, and making constant changes for some to be good and some to be bad is something that they are probably not staffed for. Sure they could hire more people but look at blizzard, thousands of people work on one title and it comes out subpar and in need of so much fixing that by the time something feels good another patch is out with even more problems to be addressed.
Personally it be cool as shit if every melee class in ffxiv had both a tanking and dps skill set allowing them to fit different roles, and casters as well, you run into lore issues with some of those just not working. You could hand wave it and say "but for the fun" but then you run into this exact problem with purposely making a job bad and others good. Why when you can have them all good so people can have fun on whatever they like best rather then forcing people to play mechanical styles they hate. I think fundamentally the game isnt designed to have every class be flexible in play style but having every class lets you be flexible. This is also countered by gearing and reduction of class difficuty
I honestly think raising the ceiling for all jobs and making people actually learn how to play properly by adding a little more complexity to jobs is the best answer. Maybe not for story content but make the floor of playing not good enough to do extremes or savages. Now when i say floor i mean gray parse people. Those who know what buttons do and hits them time to time but never really pays attention and lets a big cd sit up for 20 seconds and it drifts out of group alignment.
Mostly what i am getting at is sometimes what other games have works for them but cant work for everyone. FFXIV isnt built for a class to be highly diversed, look at the problem that was arcanist.
Now im no ffxiv dev but this is my personal look on it. Yeah some of the ofher stuff is cool but with it comes problems that would wreck the ecosystem of 14. I think some classes need to get a identity makeover the most before we get any big redefining systems in gameplay.
There's a lot of stuff Endwalker did right, but it also did tremendously wrong in other spheres. This expansion felt like a single player experience if you're not into extreme or higher level content. SB and ShB had content that brought the community together to work on long term objectives. Endwalker is severely lacking on this front and this is why to me it is one of the weaker expansions. I have high hopes for Dawntrail now that they said on stage they wanted to bring the people back together
I want to have a reason to log in everyday. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, but please SE throw us at least a bone in 7.X. Relic grind would be a good start. Or at least something that replaces it if tome relic is to be the new norm.
Hot take, but any person on twitter who has an overly modded XIV character laterally has 0 reason to speak lmao. Their opinions just have no weight anywhere when their timeline is full of XIV porn and unrealistic characters.
The comment section reinforces so many of the points this podcast episode makes.
I'm so tired of the netcode discussion because anytime I bring it up someone just explains to me how it works and why it makes sense. Like I get it, i'ts working as intended and I understand how it works, but is it good tho? You can give me 100 reason why the netcode is the way it is and I will still think it's hot garbage
You can tell people also don't do chocobo racing either with how people react to the Fall Guys collab. When you have to predict when to jump or to dodge an aoe seconds before hand during a race cause the game won't register it when you see the aoe or the chest on your screen. XiV is a game that isn't built with jump puzzles in mind yet they keep on putting them into the game. Or with Fall Guys chose to collaborate with a game that is filled with needing to make sometimes precise jumps. That doesn't mean it isn't a fun collaboration. The weird thing is so many also don't realize or heard that the collaboration will come back in the same vein as the moogle times. So a lot of people seem to be up in arms about the title cause they think they only have until the 31st of December.
I feel as if a lot if not most of the people who say the community cannot take criticism only do so because a lot of their critcism is just hot takes.
Xeno defended the game back when Lynx Kameli made that video, yet I remember Xeno yelling and accusing Yoshi-P not playing his own game. Just because someone doesn't accept some criticism doesn't mean they're fanboys or will defend the game no matter what.
Not all complaints are created equal, some are just bad hot takes no one agrees with. It's no coincidence that we saw tons of people accusing the community of this during the WoW refugee thing.
Man I love this. People just talking real talk about things they care about