I want FFXIV’s content to be more difficult. Therefore I need to have this discussion on roadblocks to make it more difficult. Xenosys cleared the new dungeon during the media tour right beside me without a healer. TOP has been cleared with no healers. FFXIV has a difficulty problem right now where content is too lenient on the playerbase but this problem cannot be solved just yet. We first need to restructure the general pipeline of the game to actually teach players in Final Fantasy XIV how to properly play FFXIV. This is especially relevant given the FFXIV Healer discussions and other discussions ongoing about FFXIV’s game difficulty.
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Timestamps:
0:00 FFXIV needs to teach players better
0:30 I want more difficult content in FFXIV
0:52 Unfairness and Difficulty
1:57 The Epic of Alexander
2:55 FFXIV Difficulty
3:43 Where to teach new players
4:12 Hall of the Novice
4:39 Teach players please FFXIV!
5:30 Ninja learning Trial
6:17 Warrior learning trial
6:40 Fear of Failure or a LACK of failure
7:04 Timers and Damage Thresholds should be added
8:43 Healing outside of ultimates is too easy
10:10 Healer Tutorials
11:28 Lustrate and Excog
12:19 Scholar Dissipation tutorial
13:00 Level 90 soon to be level 100 level cap in FFXIV
13:29 Delubrum Reginae and Twice Comes Ruin
14:37 Elitism in FFXIV
17:42 Setting players up for failure in FFXIV
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I DO want FFXIV's general content to be much more difficult at level 100+ so I need to have the uncomfortable discussion…🦁🦁🦁 Please be kind! I think this topic is VITAL to discuss in order to seriously tell the developers we need to ramp up the mainline general content to be much more difficult than today! Weève set the bar so low for so long that we need to seriously have this hard talk.
The fact sastasha's design as a dungeon (or all of ARR for that matter) isnt watched with a microscope and given frequent improvements to better teach mechanics is astonishing to me
All of this could have been done with the job quest. It could teach you how to use the abilities before they give them to you in the main game. I had to learn basic functions of the game outside of the game, which is a strange concept.
not the exact same thing, but a newer game that is out, wuthering waves, every time you get a new character they have the option to go into a tutorial where it puts you in specific parts in the kit and combos and tells you what to do and you have to execute it to move forward and at the end you get a small reward.
ffxiv could have a similar system where it puts you in specific parts of your kit and makes you press specific skills/abilities to complete it but maybe at the end you get some gil and exp for that class and a materia(or something but just an idea)
this could be basic just to show what the job is about at base level or a little longer to show each button and tell us what it is for and incentivize it.
Good talk. I agree that the game could teach players how to do their job better. Hall of the Novice really only teaches your role which is nowhere the same thing. I’ve been playing since 2.0 and I would like to be shown demonstratively how to be better at my job. I’m around midcore ability: not the super best or top-tier, but pretty competent and capable. I push the buttons, but I know I could be better/effective.
guildhests are supposed to be this tutorial. too bad they aren't worth running.
I still haven't tried the new extreme trials, always too nervous to run them. I know that sounds stupid because I raid but joining random groups makes me nervous so I end up not running the content.
Exactly what you say! I've also been saying this for years now. I'm tired of carrying entire groups of new players. We need these tutorials!
I'm just so mad that this is a debate. We really hate being WoW so much that we can't have the people who don't do hard content have to press more than 2 buttons in a dungeon but since they don't do hard content why the fuck do you need higher level gear if you just want to do easy as fuck content in the first place- like what?? I get that we don't want to step on the toes of people who don't want to play WoW or any mmo for that matter even though we are playing an mmo and most of our core gameplay and mechanics come from said mmo games. Like, what happened? Why are we just babying everyone now, removing complexity to classes that we loved and just making everything horrendously easy.
But see here is the milllion dollar problem it has been made damn near impossible to give people feedback on how to get better i am not excusing the people who get toxic while doing it but when players are afraid to help each other in fear of getting banned it doesnt help the community come together and help each other get better either so if we arent going to fix that mindset then i agree we need to have a system in the game that should teach people how to play the game properly
Hi cole, is it true they’re going to add more voices to choose from once dawn trail drops?
tbh BM give you more problem with different control mode. Now the one you can use to turn away from the boss gaze quickly, is now make you face the boss while adjusting positional while looking away.
Mr Happy said it best: "We are not the majority". In his video about Yoshi P and the 7.2 job "individuality" quote. The VAST majority of people are playing this game as a Final Fantasy game for the story. That's one of the unique things about it. THIS IS NOT WILDSTAR – STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS INTO WILDSTAR.
I don't think you're an "elitist prick", but some of what you're suggesting IS elitist.
Any time the word "forced" is used, you're in elitist territory – or tyrant territory – no matter what good you think it would achieve.
The VAST majority of the playerbase just wants to do the MSQ for the story then hang out with people and socialize. That is what FFXIV is. It HAS Savage and Ultimate raids for people that WANT to do them. But the vast majority do not. Why do YOU need them to? "Because they should be better!" WHY? If they aren't raiding, if they aren't engaging with the game at a high level – and NEVER want to do so – why should they? What are they missing out?
People need to understand what THEY find fun not EVERYONE finds fun. Not everyone thinks "Playing my Job to the utmost potential is fun!" Many people think "Playing through a good story for the story is fun!" And this is what you would be robbing from them so that WAR players…<checks notes> …know the difference between Bloodwhetting (which they don't even get until level 82) and Vengeance?
How is that more important than players enjoying a story and a videogame itself for its sake?
WoW figured this out allllll the way back in Vanilla. Give the playerbase Hunter so anyone with working stubs attached and either eyes or ears (not necessarily both) can play successfully.
MSQ is not Ultimate. It is not Savage. It is not Extreme. It is not (Hard).
…and it's not supposed to be.
Raiders need to stop trying to get everyone else to be raiders. Not everyone WANTS to be. And they don't NEED to be. And they certainly don't need to be "forced" into it.
Wildstar died.
Do you want FFXIV to die, too?
Of course, I know the answer to that is no.
So let me propose a different answer: The game should EMPOWER people to succeed. Not force them to. Give people mechanics that show success or failure at them, not punish them nor force them to memorize their Job's Balance page and Discord folder. That show them what things do and how they can use them, not by force but optionally.
Have the game teach people things like weaving and the difference between an oGCD and a GCD – this skill considered essential in high end play IS NOT MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE GAME ITSELF.
Reintroduce (Hard) mode OPTIONAL dungeons. Give players difficulties between MSQ/Normal content and Extremes. Give players that WANT harder things to do ways to cap tomes and whatnot doing those things instead (Hard dungeons again might help).
Give the players tools. But if they choose not to use them…let them not use them.
It doesn't hurt you to do so. It doesn't matter if a 4 man Duty takes 15 minutes instead of 12, especially if you're running the "Hard Roulette" instead anyway to cap your tomes.
Accept that not every Job is the same and not every one is for everyone. BLM isn't for everyone. SMN isn't for everyone, either. It's fine for them to both exist because each is for SOMEone. Why does healing need to be "harder"? What even is HARDER in terms of healing? MP demands? Cast times? complex oGCD tooltips? Even that concept isn't clear, and why does it need to even be in the first place?
.
Just let people have fun. What is fun TO THEM, not what you think they SHOULD feel fun. Is there not enough force and suffering in the world that it must also be imposed on people in games that they play because they just want to experience a story? And no, "watch it on YouTube" is NOT experiencing tthe story. It's the difference between going somewhere in person and looking at someone else's vacation photographs. The two are NOT the same, and we all KNOW they are not the same.
And no, the story is not a reward to be held like a carrot in front of someone to force them to run on a treadmill for hours so that you can say "Don't you feel better now you're in shape?"
You're a good person, Cole. I've seen enough of your stuff to think that.
So that is it.
That is the answer.
with how powerful they're making GCD heals, there's no reason there cant be more group damage in dungeons. See damage, press Medica 2/Succor/etc isnt hard and means that damage can happen fairly frequently.
Tank damage is a different story, but theres at least some merit in the argument that a good tank shouldnt need a healer or else a bad tank would be unhealable.
For me the main argument for the state of healing in the game is like this, healers don't need tanks, tanks don't need healers, tanks get a damage rotation, healers do not. If we didn't need agro management, which used to be active, and is now a toggle, you'd be seeing a lot more scholar sage only dungeon runs, because their aoe is powerful, and their shields make a tank useless. So the question becomes if neither of us have to work, why do they get a damage kit?
Player 1: gets home from stressful work logs into ffxiv have to learn they stressful job class to master it for raid end game and master the dungeon content to but the learning and stress levels are bad ass and fun to play.
Player 2: get home from stressful work log into ffxiv and turns they brain off face roll mash buttons to clear content doesn’t need to fully learn they job class to be good at the game just decent just to clear stuff and raid the game is chill and friendly not forced to work hard for more gain.
Company dev team: I need money let’s see who going to continue paying us monthly’s to enjoy our game player 1 the hardcore player OR player 2 the brain dead casual player?
By running the numbers we have 50 hardcore players to 100+ more new and casual players in the game so we are force to catering to the casual base of players more money is rolling in from them then the dedicated hardcore players. the new generation are snowflakes players
A friendly reminder that ninjas cannot do their job quests without having ninjutsu explained, scholars need to use esuna, and sages need to use kardia. Even when set to very easy these buttons are mandatory. Players are just dumb.
Ffxiv doesn’t force you to learn your Job class but it forces you to work together to complete stuff there’s no I in team or squad there’s also no carry in team or squad.
You bring up the point that honestly infuriates me the most about this game. Lack of proper in-game tutorials. Listen, I can understand if they don't want to tell people things like "this is what you have to do as a bare minimum", however, giving people little to no information and instead leaving them to their old devices causes way more harm then good. I sometimes wonder if SE look what Shigeru Miyamoto did with the first Zelda and tried to replicate it in FFXIV.
For a little history lesson. The first Zelda game had a similar problem to XIV. It gave players almost no information on where to go, what items to get, or what enemies gave new powers when defeated. Miyamoto believed that, by minimizing the in-game information, players would need to share info with one another and foster a sense of community. And it worked. Beautifully so.
Now, why is this approach not working for SE? Because Zelda is a single player game, and XIV is a team multiplayer game. You're expected to assist one another in content, and what you do (or don't do) affects others. So, when max level people are almost as clueless as when they were low level, toxicity and bullying are inevitable. And all is made even worst when the devs themselves insist on fostering such a low-risk gameplay that rarely, almost never asks players to improve. And lastly, a huge consequence of this is an entire role becoming worthless since another role can do its job just as good.
So, what would be the solution to this? Adding more failure conditions would be a good start, on top of revising the in-game tutorials to better teach people. The thing is, we may be too far into the current gameplay to make any changes the wouldn't affect everyone, both casual and hardcore players.
I don't find boss fights fun. Dungeon bosses yes. But in raids it just feels like playing simon says while doing a rotation. There's no feeling of interaction with the boss.
I quite agree, the game needs to be better at tutorials. I recently made a comment on someone's stream on how the game is really bad at teaching sprouts about their rotations in general, and of course I got the classical angry reply along the lines of "oh my god let them enjoy themselves". Sigh…
Pretty sure the devs dumbs the game down cause casual players are learning very slow or not learning at all. Shorter version, casuals just arent that good at the game but they give good money 😂😂
Thank you for bringing up healers not using Esuna. As a healer main this frustrates me to no end. Especially when I've experienced multiple party wipes where a Esuna would've saved us from wipes and time wasted.
Also Square needs to stop teaching newbie healers bad habits. What do i mean by this? Stop spamming a tier 1 spell hoping youll proc your tier 2 spell. That trait needs to go!
Sage's first solo duty, explicitly tells you to put Kardia on tank. Reaper's tells you to use your other skills. I wish they would expand on solo job quests, with the other existing jobs, and definitely should expand on.
And Guildhests have been forgotten.
We could also gain dungeon variety, if there is dungeon with the tank and healer purposefully separated. Or either the tank or healer's skills being sealed.
this game is unbalanced. ultimates being cleared without healers while current, extremes being cleared with just tanks while current should simply be impossible, no matter how skilled the parties are. its not even about difficulty at this point, its just encounter and job design. (looking at you, cure)
And for learning, we already have that level 15 thingy, just before Sastasha. just redesign it to actually be useful.
time to add twisters and exaflares to the msq dungeon where you need to fully mit with all 4 players of you die 😀
The MSQ content does need a substantial difficulty bump.
It's sad that MSQ ARR dungeons (at least prior to EW butchering them) were significantly harder on healers than much of what comes after.
I understand dropping the difficult at the start of an expansion (You know, to ease returning players back into things), but they really take it too far.
Plus Duty Support heavily restricts them in ways that they weren't in the past, as they tune it for what the bots can handle, rather than players who have accumulated hundreds of hours of experience.
to be honest, it doesnt really matter about the changes especially when for MSQ you need to wait 2+ hours for certain trials,
if you want difficult then they should reintroduce hard mode dungeons, hard cap job requirements 2/2/4 except the blues
normal mode is normal mode duh, want harder go savage extreme etc, too many classes no real balance, either way none wins
Fear of failure.
I dont like it to play healer or tank, because the roles are to important (and i dont want be the leader as tank), and i dont like the image, that a fight fails, because i did a mistake or didnt noticed something and it comes to a wipe.
About the forced thing:
I dont like the image of forcing.
But, what they could do is improving the job teacher. That the teacher can make small trials, where its showed the effect of the skills better. Or at last, give a text, where he explain, a skill more to you.
Like:
– fire 2: at my beginning did i refused to use it, because it looked so weak to me. ST attacks looks to be faster, as using aoe. That its more effectiv when you face 3 or more enemies at the same time, was something, that i needed to read first.
– scholar: This on skill in the 50er area, that gives your barrier number as extra heal (dont know the name),
I refused to use that skill for month or years, because, it looked useless for me.
I readed the skill allways in a way, that the extra healing would go to scholar. Something, that i wouldnt need, if im not hurted.
That the extra healing was going to the barrier target to was even something, that i first needed to read in a guide (at first, did i not understand, why you would use that skill).
Or by the tanks, all the skills that reduce dmg. That it isnt intented to be used at once.
But, at the other side, can i think, that this stuff explained isnt something, the devs wanted. It is something, that the Player should understandable by themself or learned by themself.
I think a large part of the problem is also how IL sync in roulettes completely destroys so many instances between ARR and SB for new players going through MSQ. Not so much their gear, but having 3 other players that quite frankly OP by raw numbers constantly reinforces a false sense what is required of them in their role. Every tankbuster in the game should do MINIMUM 50% full HP, unmitigated.. you literally cannot tell that the tank was under any real threat otherwise, so what is the point of even telegraphing? Let instances take longer, "force" players to do mechanics, increase XP/tomes accordingly.
My question for you, in which I think then people that suggest multiple ways to learn the player role/class, how would you implement it and how? If people do what they suggest that once you reach certain milestones, every "cap" meaning 50, 60, 70 etc, would you want it then so people understand all the abilities? Let me explain War and Paladin are the two tanks you can use from the get-go and say you want to be an omni tank. Would you for example, once you reach level 50 as a Paladin and decide to learn War, would you then go through the same type of "tutorial" to ensure the player knows how to do the mitigation and abilities since the class plays differently? What about people in statics that do split clears that have alts? Would they too be subjugated to having to do the exact same thing? Would it be possible to then in theory "test out" so to speak for those that do know and learn how to play the class and learn what to do in game? Personally how I feel about this, most of the content in game that would need to use later on in the game, will only be used if you're doing end game savage, extremes or ultimate. Now the question then would be how would you go about making it so that players would have to use more of their abilities. In dungeon, if you have an on point healer and a tank that knows how to use their Mitigation, what then would be the point of an invuln if the OGCD healing that at least for me as a WHM with the lillies, benny and tetragram, if we can wall to wall and I can just toss those out and if again a WAR using their own personal healing then it would be redundant and I will be just a glare mage.
The solution then could be 1 of 2 folds, you could either 1) reduce the potency of healing and defensive. While probably the worst of the two, by doing this, players would have to be more force to use abilities like Rampart, reprisal, arms length, feint and addle to help with the mitigation. Or they could 2) increase the damage of the mob in dungeon and lowering the effect so that stats actually matter in game, which would arguably be worst, because I can probably guarantee you that besides end game raiders, no one can tell you why you don't want piety or why you don't want tenacity in your stats and why Crit, DHit and Det would be better alternative. Healers and by extension Tanks can get away without the use of those substance because it deem to be worthless. Sure people look at piety and say cool, more healing Potency but neglect the fact that it also boost MP regent, just as tenacity boost damage dealt, HP restore while lessening the damage taken from mobs. If then that's the case, then square should either get rid of piety and Tenacity all together since it seems rather pointless to have skills like that, given the amount of sustain and oGCD healing that healers have making so that you're using LD on cool down to not go under. Or make those stats mean a lot more by raising the MP cost of healing and make it so that the MP regain tick and recovery is much lower than what it is now. As always Cole, nice video, this would be my suggestion. One could argue that the game does teaches players how to deal with all mechanics during the MSQ, but to what effect that it does since in dungeons it does little to no damage, most players would probably take it once and say oh, then continue on their way.
The problem with healing, is that you can’t trust healers to heal in Final Fantasy 14, so the harder healing gets the more griefing everyone gets
I have an idea of boos + tank rework it goes as follows:
Rework tank busters:
Tank buster will have 3 types:
Slash, smash, pierce, magic
Let take example we are in raid and the boss will have 4 tanks busters
And tanks have 4 main tank busters which will be each tank buster will have the same effect but with additional one of the 4 tanks buster type example: rampart will have magic mitigation, blood spitter will have smash mitigation
If done correctly it will mitigate 80% dmg and give effect as follows:
Magic : will give team support buff
Paladin : defense
Warrior: Heal
Gunbreaker: regen
Dark knight: shield
Smash and slash and peirce will give tank specific rotation that have big damage as a reward for done mechanic right
If done poorly it will mitigate 20% and lost the effect
Effects will be randomize each time but with very hard moments will give magic effect tank busters
Please give me your thoughts
When I am with random players in random content I expect random levels of skill and thus I am rarely disappointed. Some of my more amusing and fun runs have been with people who were pretty clueless. If I want difficult content it is there for me, but I don't expect MSQ dungeons or roulettes to be that kind of content. I wouldn't mind, depending on what it was, but I don't expect it. The problem of healers having not enough to do is something I hear often. But I don't see what it has to do with other players not knowing their jobs.
Healer is 10% dmg 90% heal
It should be 60% dmg 40% heal
I think this might be gatekeeping to prevent players from getting further in the in story until they learn how to use their abilities optimally, also this might surprise you but early days of mmos were about discovery, so if the game tells you, you must use this after this, it kinda take it away from this finding it for themselves. I get it you want the medica II spammers use other spells and abilities and if they wanted to learn how to play their job better or try to look at ways they can heal better they would. I think forcing them to play their class optimally would deter the players who unsub once they do story.
So I started playing FFXIV at the end of Shadowbringer, around patch 5.3-5.4. I main as a melee DPS, i did all the savage tier since i started to play FFXIV and some ultimates and I wish that the difficulty become higher. I take example with roulettes. I play as BLM in Expert roulette and just here i notice the difference in time for this roulette as DPS. When one roulette takes 17 min with people who already did the dungeon and then you take 11-12 min to do the same dungeon with different people, it baffles me, litteraly. Okay there's the gear difference, but i can't believe that it is the only thing that makes a 5 min difference in a dungeon.
I played most jobs to lv90 and when i played healer and you know what a tank is able to do for mitigation, I can't help but notice the difference in healing that needs to be done.
And again, you notice the difference in player that have read their tooltip and the people who didn't. So when I call people to read their tooltip, either i'm ignored or sometime I'm flamed for being too elitist.
That's the sad reality, I can understand that some people are casual and they don't want to sweat at every corner of a dungeon but I just wish that the game pushed people to learn about what they are doing.
16:08 opportunity missed:
“We parse pink on Wednesdays”
But also
Everything you said is needed. People should be taught mechanics in game. Your example, a ninja shouldn’t be ignorant to its mudras at level 90 and soon 100…