Quazii covers the news of FF14 Astrologian and Dragoon job reworks being postponed to Patch 7.0, to be launched alongside the new expansion for Final Fantasy XIV.
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I have no opinion on SAM or DRG. Drg mains seem happy so I don't understand why they want to change it again.
As an AST main I absolutely don't want them to push more changes on the Job, especially ones focused on "making it more accessible." I think the only change i could want is to bring back Noct/Diurnal sects. It's already simple. And it is ok to have classes that take a bit more skill. We NEED those, people will not be sprouts forever (and we shouldn't be making jobs only for the low end raiders that are a large portion of the complaints lol).
Honestly though, I'd prefer if they finish murdering the Job sooner, at least AST mains can mourn and move on instead of sitting here dreading it for the next year.
most pvp job feels more like their actual job, maybe this will inspire rework for 7.0
And combos on one button are for casual crybabies who can't execute their combo on Hydaelyn story mode
Fine by me, maybe that will let them make changes to reaper in pvp, shits rough :/
I personally love where DRG is right now and it's consistently been one of the most fun melee for me since all the way back to HW (though I currently main MNK cuz hot damn it's a blast). The only thing I think needs to change is 2 charges of High Jump so we can activate Life of the Dragon in the opener instead of delaying it until the next Lance Charge. Also could stand to just make Life Surge a passive. I don't care for it at all and doesn't add anything to the rotation. Having said that, I also don't mind if they do a big rework because I'm always excited to see where they go with those. I think their vision for DRG is probably very much going to tie into the signature traits of job's themes and I'm all for it!
I'm looking forward to the Dragoon Changes. I am almost finished with leveling all Jobs to 90 and Dragoon does have some clunky stuff compared to the other Jobs that could get fixed.
My biggest problem is how Dragon Sight works. It's currently not a good experience to pick a party Member for Dragon Sight inside your burst phase and macros are kinda unreliable.
My solution would be, to turn Dragon Sight into a buff like Dance Partner or Kardia, so at the start of the Duty, you choose your Eye Partner and throughout your opener, one of your abilities will give that Eye Partner a Buff automatically. That would reduce some clunkyness, makes it clear from the start who will get the buff and also makes the Job more smooth to use imo.
I'm not happy hearing they want to make such massive changes. Especially for something like Dragoon, which is in a good place.
They really should focus on fixing healers by giving them some kind of DPS rotation, at least. And maybe stop trying to make the classes braindead-friendly; Summoner is just BORING to play now, and Samurai used to be my preferred melee DPS but now it's Dragoon because they took away some of the complexity.
Someone needs to tell them that you can't please everyone, and trying to make classes so that "anyone can play any job" will only turn them all into bland, brainless mush. We need some complexity in the classes to keep gameplay engaging and exciting. It's not fun unless you can fail, and it's even more fun to fail only to learn from it and overcome your limitations. If you really need a braindead class for newbies let them have Summoner since it's already newb-friendly that way.
And FOR EF'S SAKE MAKE THE LILY HEALS ON WHM OGCDS ALREADY.
I played the entire MSQ on Dragoon and it's my main for end-game PvE and PvP. I love everything about the job, both the abilities and the fantasy. I enjoy the friction the job has with how busy it's burst phase gets during complicated raiding mechanics.
In my heart I know that these changes mean the end of DRG. After seeing what they did to SMN, I know they will dumb the DRG rotation down and limit oGCD freedom. At least I get one more year with the job I love.
I still remember the old Astrologian. It had different buffs depending on the card like giving mp/tp, increasing attack speed, defense or attack. It also had ways to manipulate these buffs by spreading them to the whole party or making them last longer.
The job also leaned heavily on the time mage aspect, where they could extend their buffs, stun and make enemies move more slowly, and lore wise, their healing spells work by reversing time to a point before the target became damaged.
I wish that the team will finally decide on the Astro identity, or even with all the healers’ identity as I think healing is quite bland nowadays.
Me needing to wait 20 minutes as dps to run majority of the content in the game cause we are waiting for a healer is a clear indication that healing is fun in this game. Pls dont fuck up the healers anymore… ast is fun to play. It needs minor adjustments and thats all.
I do feel these changes were postponed cause of the backlash with the removal of Samurai's Kaiten and the reason behind it. If they wanted to slim down button bloat for the job they've could've easily made certain buttons proc instead of having an extra buttons across the hotbar (Iaijutsui turns to Tsubame-Geshi after use, turning Shoha into Shoha II, etc) like turning them into traits.
I didn't think I would miss my weapon twirl and the extra 50% weaponskill buff before using Midare, now I do… :')
I wonder if they'll have similar plans for other jobs? I main DRK and MCH, and after hearing what DRG can do in PVP gameplay (I don't do PVP) I really hope other jobs can get similar treatment where they feel more engaging.
I am an AST main and the thing i like about it is that it is busy.
I don't want another whm where i fall asleep while playing it.
It would be pretty cool if dragoon could summon a little battle dragon again like in ff11
No quazii, they're not joking.
Alot of players are pissed about the kaiten change, have been giving in depth feedback over it, and have virtually been given radio silence from the devs as compensation despite yoshi p asking for feedback in the first place.
Not everything about the game and the dev- community relationship is sunshine and rainbows, even with all the benefits of the doubt. Dark knights have been asking for living dead to be changed for literally years until feedback flooded to a point they couldn't ignore.
Healers are STILL asking for more engaging healing mechanics and dps besides being glare bots the whole fight.
No one's infallible, especially not these devs.
As a hardcore DRG main, I support this decision. I just don't know what they can do with the job to significantly address complexity and button bloat that won't require a full rework, and IMO full reworks should be saved for expansions.
The only solutions I've seen posted are either things that would shave off one button here or there but leave the job in mostly the same state, or things that would hit at the very core and make me not want to play drg anymore.
I do empathize with anyone on controller trying to find a decent setup for DRG though. 27 different buttons has got to be a pain to map onto cross hotbars.
AST needs it atleast for sects and cards, class feels ruined since i last played it in Stormblood
There are still those of us who want kaiten back genuinely. Not even as a meme. All the reasons (more like excuses) they gave for removing it were utter garbage as many SAM mains pointed out better ways to improve the job. I've even posted in the forums the different ways they could have improved SAM by not removing kaiten. It's not the change that has me angry as much as the excuses that have been given for the change. It's a moment of "Do they even play their own game?" and they have the audacity to meme about it towards other companies when they do the same thing.
SAM doesn't feel right anymore so I'm not playing it in hopes of either getting kaiten back or forgetting how the job works and lose muscle memory so I can re-learn the stupid thing. Maybe others are able to adjust but there are those who have a harder time. I'm the latter.
I'm main DRG and I love how it plays. It was my first job and even after leveling up all the other jobs, it's still my favorite. It's also comforting to me that it didn't really change a lot since I've started playing in SB, so I'm kinda scared to what the changes might be…there really isn't anything that makes me think there's a need for a complete revamp. I could think of like, maybe having dragon sight work as a dance partner, remove Life Surge, have wheeling thrust and fang and claw share a button, but that's it. I play on a controller and I don't think there's too many buttons, so even button bloat doesn't feel like a problem!
I personally don't think it doesn't feel "dragoony", but I'd love if there were more skill animations like Dragonfire Dive – it's the second coolest and most satisfying jump in the rotation if though it's not huge in terms of damage.
I think the most clear quality of life changes they can make are doable before 7.0, but I can definitely see how reworks these jobs need are too much to do before that long expansion development window.
As far as what I imagine they could be going for… Ast I imagine they will adjust the card system and rework seals into something more than a mana button with potential to boost your dps a little. As far as Drg goes, this job does genuinely play very well once you can do the opener, but it is a seriously complicated opener to execute reliably. I could totally see them consolidating some older keys into one another and probably making fang/wheeling into a single button. Whether they want to rework life of the dragon as well to make the reopener impossible to misalign I guess is something we'll have to wait and see. I don't think they need to remove the 12345 combo though, that's really unnecessary since it doesn't even have a built in haste buff. Just improving playablity and hopefully fixing jump delays (stardiver and df dive remain quite bad)
Personally, I think this is a good thing, rushing a rework is never good, this let's us all know they're planning revamps and this gives plenty of time for them to test different things, and most notably, gather feedback that can be implemented. This goves a chance to really hear what people hope changes and values about both jobs far in advance. I just hope DRG gets to do more jumping and dragon based things regularly like some of the other melee with their aesthetics do, it should be the most mobile IMO and I hope AST gets some time magic back and unique buffs again.
When AST first came out, Draw was same button to play their card buff. so stupid they made it a seperate button like minor arcana/crown play smh
My guess is that they're taking some inspirations from the PvP actions and thinking of tuning them into the PvE actions with proper balancing. I mean, I personally have no issue with DRG in PvE but the PvP DRG is helluva fun, especially his Limit Break which is what I thought Jump would originally be (well, maybe not as an orbital strike AoE but more like being in the air for a while then come down on an enemy). So if they intend to apply something similar to the PvE DRG, I'm all for it since it feels definitively "more dragoony"
As for combos, well I could see it go 2 ways : either they concatenate some moves into transformative actions (like Continuation), kind of how Jump/High Jump now changes to Mirage Dive, where it makes sense…
… or they implement "Hold" actions which acts as a combo modifier for your combo action chains. For example, let's take the Paladin (even though I think the melee combo is simple enough, I'm only using it for example's sake). Currently, you have 2 chains :
– Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Rage of Halone / Royal Authority
– Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Goring Blade
If they implement 'Hold' command inputs, it could act as a modifier to change your current combo path. In this case, Royal Authority and Goring Blade could be combined in a single action where TAPPING the key associated with it triggers Royal Authority but HOLDING the key down would trigger Goring Blade. This would effectively remove 1 keybind from your hotbars.
But take the Dragoon in this example : its two combo paths are the following :
– True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Heaven's Thrust -> Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust
– True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaotic Spring -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang and Claw
Here, the fork happens when using either Vorpal Thrust or Disembowel, leading on the combo to different paths. If those two became a tap / hold key, then you could have the following 2-3 keys change depending on either you trigger Vorpal Thrust or Disembowel instead of having dedicated keys for each. So instead of 7 keys needed for both combos, only 4-5 would be required.
Key 1 is True Thrust
Key 2 is Vorpal Thrust / Disembowel on a Tap/Hold modifier
Key 3 is either Heaven's Thrust or Chaotic Spring depending on the path
Key 4 is either Fang and Claw or Wheeling Thrust depending on the path, used again for the other move afterwards
OR
Key 4 is Fang and Claw
Key 5 is Wheeling Thrust
That's about what I personally thought about would work as a PvE alternative to cut back on combo actions while maintaining some awareness / complexity. Now, how doable that is with the current system and how well it would work with lag is another issue entirely… maybe lag would make this system completely unusable.
They are clearly looking to give the jobs the same treatment SMN got in 6.0 and that can be good or a bad thing depending on how you perceive such a drastic change. For me as a SMN main since ARR, I am quite happy with the job now, much like AST, SMN went through so many changes each expansion, each patch, pretty much what AST mains are talking about. Every time it was just somehow different, it did need some kind of rework and while it is very dumbed down now, it also feels amazing if you like the idea of… you know, summoning. So yeah, most likely, come 7.0, expect basically 2 new jobs AST and DRG haha.
DRG was my first job, and I honestly see why they need to do something to it, because they've hit a wall in design and they can't do ANYTHING with it without making it awful. Delaying it isn't that big of a deal… AST however, feels like total butt and needs help even with an impending rework, at least give us Sleeve Draw back and our Redraw charges for the time being.
If they want to make pve hae the same 1 button combo like pve, must be filthy casual. Thats the only reason the game is engaging, other than mechanics. If they take away that, GG ffxiv. Ultimate has no value anymore.
Astro is changed every xpac like Hpal is in WoW. Of course I had to main both. XD
Dragoon used to be a jump class, it's now just a mage lancer hybrid. As a former Drg main and FF fan, the current Drg disgusts me and I can't stomach playing it, which is a shame, because I still want to be a Drg.
this game is funny like that; a job could get a massive rework and it makes me wanna main it.
Ast player here I’m looking forward to a rework but right now all I want is some changes to the job as is. 1. I want 2 charges of Lightspeed as you are forced to save it for bursts as you’re having to do a lot of double weaving. 2. Make MA one button 3. I want lady to be changed to a party wide buff as AST’s kit does not need the inconsistent heal when our kit has so much raw healing already. I like the rng with the job a lot but I hope we go more into the time mage identify going forward.
I hope at some point they decide to make materia more interesting like they do in other FF games. Would be cool to see materia procs rather than constant job tuning/revamps.
This is what wow has been doing for years, revamping classes until they completely lost everything they used to be, completely losing their flavor, identity, becoming "sparkly" dumbed down versions of what they used to be. That's when I stopped playing wow, after more than 12 years. If SE goes in the same direction with Dragoon and other jobs, I'm leaving the game too. I'm not up for watching another game I invested thousands of hours into go down in flames slowly until it becomes nothing but a brand to milk for money.
I mean astro feels good right now maybe I know how to manage my mana better than other people but I dont think it needs anything right now so im in no rush unless people who play savage/ultimates feel other wise for me Astro works in unreal extreme pretty well o-o
I hope AST gets Haste since they are basically Time Mages.
Do people not like AST the way it is now? I was worried about the changes for Endwalker you know, losing Noct sect and all that but it's still my main healer and I find it just as fun to play now if not more than SHB AST.
I'm not to concerned about DRG right now, they have a good sense of the jobs identity. Mnk had a job adjustment postponed from shadowbringer to endwalker and it was an honest improvement. Idk about AST since it has a big kit and most of its buttons had some big changes already
I mained DRG in ShB and loved it, but fell out of love a bit in EW. Much of that was to do with RPR feeling more fun for me, but I was also just a bit disappointed with the new changes for DRG in EW. All they did was basically add more oGCDs to push, and therefore cram into the 2 minute burst window, but in a counter-intuitive way I think this actually made the burst window feel less satisfying because instead of focusing on landing the big satisfying hits like Stardiver and enjoying the Nastrond's, I'm too busy cramming in life surge and the other jumps. I also genuinely miss BotD. Sure, it was pretty superfluous and you only ever pushed it at the start of a fight or during downtime but in terms of flavour it was just so cool to press that button and hear the DRG equivalent of a battle roar right before the pull.
Maybe it's not fair to compare it to a job like RPR, and obviously I don't want DRG to just become RPR, but it's highlighted some of DRG's age to me in terms of design. For example, it feels weird to me now that DRG's burst is basically exclusively oGCDs, and throughout that you're just doing the same GCD combo. All the other melee jobs change up their GCD significantly for burst. SAM gets Meikyo Shisui to build and burst their Iaijutsu faster, MNK gets perfect balance for a similar purpose, NIN is obviously in Mudra land, and RPR gets a whole new faster 1-2-1-2-Boom. It would just be cool if your base GCDs got something special during burst, even if they don't change. Like, imagine if they temporarily upgraded to have the range of Nastrond or Wyrmwind Thrust – let us take advantage of the fact we have the ability jump in and out without making it never worth doing due to downtime – or append that property to the next GCD or two after using backflip so we can dodge an attack in style, keep that GCD of melee uptime and then dive back in like a real dragoon. (It's a crime that RPR has Egress/Ingress + Harvest Moon but the gap-closing properties of DRG jumps are mostly useless if you want to maintain uptime.)
Give drgs a mini wyvern with its own set of skills like 11 and watch drgs go quiet
It's taken years for people to be on the same page as me, but it FINALLY happened! I'm so happy!
DRG is probably the only job I honestly hate playing and it's because it misses the DRG fantasy spectacularly and I mean it. From level 1 to 50 I had a shitload of fun using Elusive Jump, Piercing Talon, Jump, Piercing Talon and Spineshatter. I knew it probably wasn't ideal, but it was really fun and I remember my friends laughing while watching me jump around the boss and have ridiculous mobility.
After level 50 I kinda started getting more and more bored because the jumps stopped being functionally jumps and ended up being throw away damage I had to use right next to the boss or my rotation would fall to pieces as buffs wouldn't hold for long enough. They looked like jumps, but they didn't feel like jumps – the kind of jumps that in other FFs would make your character jump from their side of the screen and land on top of the enemy on the other side. The displacement was absent, and I think that was part of the DRG fantasy.
I always said DRG had to feel like reverse RDM, where instead of having a melee burst phase it should flip back, have a ranged jump burst phase (or a "dodge combo" like SAM or RPR could work too) and then return to melee phase.
If they do this, I will pick up DRG in a heartbeat.
I don't want DRG dumbed down, the rotation is good how it is and folks who want it easier to play are lazy and do not want to take the time to learn the job fully. As a DRG main this is an insult.
From a completely objective standpoint, I can kinda see why they want to rework DRG. With EW, I think the devs have kinda hit a dead-end with the job, where it feels smooth enough and simple to play, but they can't really add anything else to the kit without it feeling more bloated than it already does. If they want to build on the job anymore, they need to adjust the fundamentals of it to ALLOW those builds to work.
From a DRG main perspective, leave my baby alone, Yoshi.
i would love for them to put combos on 1 button but only if they add a lot more of cool looking ogcds to compensate for the lack of skills to press, so the combos would make more sense being on 1 button, the jobs wouldn't get waay easier AND they would look cooler (because of more skill animations) and the elite players would be happy.
If they replaced SAM kaiten with another skill way less people would have complained
They did a good job with the SMN rework, I think they'll probably do a good job with DRG and AST too. It's surprising to me that DRG is getting full rework treatment. I only play it a bit on the side, but there's not a lot of things I would personally change with it apart from maybe making life surge a passive(maybe positional?) and reducing button bloat via that one opinion about the 1-2-3 combos that is very controversial for some reason haha. We love the illusion of complexity in this community
AST is the most obvious rework choice. Pretty much all of the changes to it up until now have been in response to ingame systems changing, being removed, or added in and AST having something in it's kit that is getting rendered useless or weird that needs to be removed, replaced or changed. As result to being the class that always ends up as an afterthought it now has a bag full of gimmicks that you constantly have to juggle to keep on par with the other healing classes. It makes sense for the dev team to rethink the whole class at this point, I don't think it was ever intended to be the tapdancing yu-gi-oh healer but here we are lol. I understand that people will miss it though, it's kind of fun with a busy healer and I reckon that would change with the overhaul