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Shoot, I find the ultimate/savage stuff really hard. This game’s jobs will feel similar-ish simply due to battle system of auto aim, so honestly some just prefer other styles better like Lost Ark where there’s more skill shots. Also PvP adds so much replayability to the game. I can honestly say I would unsubscribe until the next big patch if PvP hadn’t been revamped in 6.1
The current main crux of the game for me is each job doesn't diverse in playstyles in itself. I know it's easier to balance this way, but it's disheartening when a patch/expansion changes an aspect of your favorite job so drastically it doesn't appeal to you anymore, but you don't have other playstyles to fall back into.
Chair’s video really hits me because I’m a healer main, or former healer main. WHM to be exact. Played it in 5.0, but dropped it when 6.0 came.
WHM had no meaningful changes. You still glare spam. Tried SGE, but the job is basically the same thing. You just spam Dosis instead. You barely use any of it’s healing kit because damage is so low and you don’t get enough Addersting charges for Toxikon.
criterion dungeons is what i am looking forward to the most. i pray they deliver
some points he made were good but i feel like misshapen chair has reached a point where he complains about change just because it's change and not because it's necessarily a bad change.
i do agree with what chair said about the sub and keepign people subed when i had the complexicty in some jobs and had things to do i would stay subbed pretty much consistently but recently after taking a break before endwalker and now more than never i have take very extended breaks only resubing when my house timer is about to run out not to mention certain decisions they made not just regardign jobs but costumisation aspects like how they hide the hrothgar hair for example feels like things are being rushed or they just dont care and if the devs that make the game we love dont care why should we even bother?
Your point of savage being a huge time sink is something that really needs to stop being spread around. My static has the most inconsistent raid schedule and we typically can only raid 1-2 times a week for 1.5-2 hours per night we raid. We cleared this tiers savage content 2 weeks ago and are working on reclears. Savage is not a huge time sink. If you haven't tried savage stop speculating on how much time and effort it takes to complete the content. We are fairly average players too.
For Healers from a WMA point of View regarding DMG, return Aeroga as AE Dot but make it override Aero. So it will be used only in AE Situation. Additionally add a 5 second nuke that has a chance to get an instant nuke through Glare or Dot Ticks.
I'm a perfect example of what he is afraid will increase in the future. I stuck through this game through the 1.0 shift to ARR but the post Shadowbringers/Endwalker meta and changes to playstyles made me go from first-week savage tier clearer every tier through Heavensward to a mostly-story midcore that dips into savage much later after restrictions are gone and the optimizations are all in. Yeah, let that sink in. There are very few if any of us original alpha test group left in the active playerbase as the direction is clearly "accessibiilty at all costs" which has been shown to kill anything foolish enough to not understand the old true saying "Too much of anything, even good things, can become terrible."
Let’s all play our jobs until they turn into 1 button lol like pvp
I've been maining monk and I like it so far. Simple rotation, constant combos, not too hard for a tired old mind like mine to keep straight. The fighting is fun. Running around constantly to avoid glowy shit is not. I don't want to do high-end content. The only thing that bothers me in this game is that the MSQ requires me to do trials and raids, and I don't really want to do that stuff. And it gets increasingly more complex with the mechanics. I didn't enjoy Praetorium. I just wished it would end, and never want to go through an experience like that again. All I want as a filthy casual is to be able to get through the MSQ without going through punishing content that I normally avoid like the plague. The solo MSQ duties and low-mechanics dungeons and trials are good enough for me.
These points are so true, i dont even materia meld because in most parties because i know my rotations I out DPS everyone. And when someone out dps me i know its because of good rotation + melds. and the gearings its so horizontal i even forget to use my stones cause even in savage u dont need l33t gear
completly just some
base pieces
I have seen these arguments before and while I can agree that some changes did not hit the mark, ultimately the case being made in large extent by Misshapen and even Despi in some cases apply to a limited group of players (admittedly so). Also Veteran players are not all Raiders and the case being made is primarily aimed at that contingent. But to the point of skill ceiling/floors and the homogenization of jobs. For the floors/ceilings. I am all for it in truth. The problem is….what reward are you expecting? I give you a high ceiling but maybe your DPS is only slightly better than that of those in the average to middling area. Are you satisfied? I mean you have your complexity, there is a difference/reward, but what if the reward (increased DPS in most cases) is only marginal. That becomes the issue overall. Those classes with high ceiling to floor ratio become problematic and are then either underplayed (if the reward for the complexity is low) or forced down the throats of players as being necessary to the detriment of other classes and playstyles.
As a players we have seen other games try and contend with balancing playstyle variety over the years, it ends up the same. Someone does the math, puts out a meta list, creates a rotation/priority cast doc, and boom. We ourselves as players do it all the same. As I recall Despi even has a few such guides out there. FFXIV was actually fairly open in showing that players were just not using a lot of the skills and variety out there. So why waste Dev resources on it if the players are not engaging it. The prime example of this was the Astro cards.
I miss old summoner because I put some time into actually learning it. It wasn't hard, but it was incredibly fun and it felt like I was always active and every tool mattered. New summoner feels completely different, but also half-assed in the changes they made. Why do we need a button to summon carbuncle now still when carbuncle doesn't do anything except let you access your shield? Why do we even need a pet bar at all for it when the summons hover over for 50 levels going to damage the enemy automatically? Why do we still have aetherflow charges instead of new buttons that are more active and do different things? Why do we have to wait 26 levels after getting Astral Flow to get the tools associated with it for the main 3 primals we summon?
It feels like they threw out a tightly knit complete job in favor of something fast and fluid but with its own clunky issues. I played Summoner for high level main story in EW and at 90 the summons taking up so much space that you can't fully see the AoEs around you to dodge make it a pain in the ass. I shouldn't have to keep summoning carbuncle every time I'm revived and have to wait 7-8 seconds to start casting again after reviving mid-battle (5 seconds of invul to heal, 2.5 or so for cast/recast on carbuncle). I shouldn't have to learn a macro to shrink my level 90 primals when they shouldn't be so intrusive to begin with. The kit also needs to be made tighter so parts of it don't feel vestigial compared to the old rotations. I like new summoner, but I love old summoner, and they still need to finish the job tuning it until I have a full replacement to what was lost. I definitely FEEL the complaints Chair is making on this.
My greatest problem with FFXIV is that they are making the jobs way too easy, their rotations seem easy and straight forward. Also dungeons offer no real value unless they have some good glam or minions/materials. I wish thet would add more vale to dungeons, PVP and other battle oriented content.
Classes are easy to pick up and learn the difference nowadays between a good player and a regular player is just battle knowledge and uptime
They need to add old status back to make multiple optimizations. I think they also need to add more value to world areas instead of adding just a random FATE
Huge disagree about GNB's double weaving creating friction when adjusting the boss as a "feature" instead of an oversight. The Tank role is responsible for only 2 things – boss positioning, mitigating damage that would kill the other roles. That's it. GNB's double weaving is a hinderance to 1 of those 2 core responsibilities of the role and that's poor design. If they made the burst window flexible by lasting longer or changing it to stacks, suddenly, you alleviate both – you can keep the nuance while at the same time making it less clunky for the tank to do one of its two jobs. Misshapen chair has good broader ideas, but then he says stuff like this that reminds me why I'll never take his criticism seriously.
The Summoner DOTs take is so damn true, there was no reason to remove it and it would have actually added more complexity to the currently very simplified Summoner. I miss keeping my DOTs up, using Tri Disaster and Fester. I hope the devs add DOTs to Summoner along with Fester.
For a diehard FF fan like me I can say FFXIV is seriously dated …I really don't think it has many more years. If they run it for more than 5 years from now they are making a huge mistake. Graphics, engine, player progression is seriously outdated ..I really hope they realise this.
It's an interesting topic for sure. I feel like certain classes like Astro and Black Mage should always be complex and have a high skill ceiling. At the same time, I feel that other classes should not be so dumb and complex for silly reasons like Monk and positionals. I love what they did to Monk currently and think it's a great example of progressing in the right direction.
You can’t please everyone. Simple as that.
Something I've said in other places is that I'd rather have an unbalanced mess of a game that's fun to play than a perfectly balanced game that's stale or boring. Balance is important to a point, but it shouldn't come at the cost of a jobs enjoyment or gameplay loop like it already has for jobs like Astrologian and Scholar, or what we're seeing with Kaiten on Samurai. FFXIV has rarely had issues keeping all jobs viable, so I don't feel like much of the aggressive pruning we've seen from ShB and EW has done us any benefits.
Ngl i havent played for awhile because i find the game boring nowadays. I hope something changes
Ok I agree with most. But them aoe changes argument is dumb lol. I think it’s a slight change. Quality of life I guess. But who cares whether it’s a circle or not lol.
xeno also made a video on the game getting more stale with each expansion, it was a good watch too
I don't agree that everything is homogenized completely tho, such as Paladin, GNB, MNK, BLM. I just think the thought process behind certain changes was that the devs saw certain classes being considered "too good" and wanted to make all the other jobs in line with that and so they gave them a few similar tools. This is all a typical dev issue of when is it time to not listen so much to fans who complain and what is good for the games progression.
Something to factor in I am sure many experienced this. DPS testing on a dummy is quite easy, the rotation for most jobs isn't that difficult. However, in practice in Savage content, I find that I will rarely hit peak dps. Mechanics are priority, so you will lose the rotation or uptime. What separates great players is their ability to optimize even in hard content. Because of this, FF14 does have a high skill ceiling, but only in those hard content.
In Dungeons, the trash pull is harder than the Boss fight, because everyone pulls wall to wall. Sloppy DPS will get the tanks killed because their cooldowns don't last long. Sloppy healers & tanks will cause wipes. I think the Boss fights need to be much harder in Dungeon content, as it is, it's way way too easy. (Nobody in Dungeons pull just 3 mobs at a time, as devs intended).
6.1 PvP is fun due to classes being unique and each feel and play differently. In PvE most play the same, only few are truly different like the BLM
If someone thinks that all jobs play the same they have clearly not played all jobs.
Tanks: WAR is completely diff to DRK, PLD has nothing to do with GNB, and so on.
Healers: WHM is nothing similar to AST, same with SGE and SCH.
Melees: MNK and SAM have a complete different style, same with NIN and its mudras. Also, DRG and RPR play nothing alike.
I could go on with Ranged and Casters dps.
FFXIV is maybe not the hardest game when it comes to master a job, yet, there's ton of people who DON'T WANT HARD CONTENT. I'm so freaking tired of tryhards complaining about this game or this other game. You want difficult games? go play Dark Souls, go play other games where you die instantly because you pressed X instead of O, seriously.
Moreover, if you're good at your job and you think you cannot get better, go play savage, go play ultimate, good luck with that, that's freaking HARD. Still, if you think that's ez pz, go play other games, simple as that, they're not gonna make the game hard because of a minority. Period.
Switching from Paladin to Warrior I found the cone on Overpower a huge pain in the ass. Half the time I was facing in the wrong direction.
I did SoS through PF. Ez
im complaining about the new continuation maybe they will remove it, or maybe they add more
I 100% agree with the difficulty observations. Going from DF to even extreme is a massive leap for a lot of players. They really need something between the story mode and extreme that's still DFable.
>game to easy
>has no ultimate weapons
>argument invalid
These FFXIV youtubers are disconected with the avarage player, yeah chair the game is gonna feel easy and yes Xenos its gonna feel stale after a while.
Once you've put thousands of hours into something it will inevitability start feel less fun.
-Turn skills sytems to just 3 buttons like pvp
-Every time you die you lose exp and lvs
-If you took 2 hits you are death even if you are full heal like DelebrumReginae
-Add more savage raids and zoNES on aRR to keep new hard core players hoked.
To all the new FFXIV players who came into the game around shadow bringers, you might not get it.
Back in ARR, we had TP bars if we were physical DPS, Mana management was a thing for some classes, and Tank enmity wasn't solved by a stance. You actually had to manage crowd control up to 4.0, not DPS. Everything Chair criticized in the video was spot on. The game needs to insert some "Job" complexity again. Because I am pretty sure players have noticed every dungeon is now just trash pulls, then bosses.
You want niche gameplay that caters to og players and never changes, you'll have a niche game with og players. All MMOs, regardless of their genre, go through class/hero changes. Almost all games with on streamlining play style. Are all the changes will received by everyone all the time? Is it possible, no. Should squeenix bend over backwards for a vocal minority. No. The amount of crying over kaiten is ridiculous. Gameplay rotations are rigid and stuffy. Hopefully one day, the game can actually add some dynamic thought provoking playstyles, and not just have 30 buttons for the sake of pressing one before the other and that's it.
When changes happened to Sam I only started playing it, which is more on second char. At first I thought it would be cool, more pressing buttons rather than saving for boost. But now on lvl 82 I feel I miss Kaiten. And also striking in the cone felt better!
speedran.
Personally I started hating Dungeons in the game when the Siren one was Nerfed
The while skill ceiling thing…. Yea it's one of the reasons I quit wow after so long so to see it happening in FF also kinda sucks. I only just started back in December and I love love love this game but to see it doing the same failed things wow has done really hurts to see.
The job mechanics are what every player has to interact with, no matter their individual skill. Fight design is where you can design for various different skill levels. So from a design perspective, it makes sense to reduce the impact player skill has on the performance of a job by making certain aspects less complex. That then means that you can increase the difficulty of fights themselves as that is the one place where you have control over what kind of player interacts with it.
Keep in mind, the story has to be able to be played by almost everyone. That includes the individual job stories but also story dungeons, alliance raids, story trials and solo instances. And when you take a look at those, you can see that those have increased massively in complexity since hw/sb.
When designing content you want everyone to be able to see, you have to design around the bottom 20% of players in terms of skill. And those players absolutely need their job to be lower on the complexity spectrum if you want them to complete fights that are not literal target dummies.
We see this in arr/hw fight design, a lot of which are just target dummies. When they were designed, rotations were more complex so it makes sense (ofc many other factors to that as well).
Since then though the decision has been made to shift the complexity into the fights themselves instead and thus away from the jobs. Just compare any HW solo instance or story dungeon to any one in EW.
Now I'd argue that this shift in focus is a really good thing for the health of the game. You open it up for players with very little skill to enjoy but you're still able to keep very skilled ones engaged through making the bosses for those players harder and harder. Achieving both of those at the same time is incredibly difficult and in my personal opinion, they've nailed it.
Take three players:
-My 68 year old mother who plays for like 2h a week, has to read through what her abilities do again and again because she keeps forgetting and who can't move while clicking abilities at the same time.
-Me, raiding 5h a week in a semi-active static, currently on P3S, actively working on improving my gameplay but still making simple mistakes when in stressful situations like letting my dot fall off and not using some abilities right when they come off cd.
-Any player who cleared DSU at this point.
The fact that all of these people can enjoy the same game and play the same jobs all while everybody is challenged adequately is nothing short of a masterpiece in game design.
Ps: Sorry for the rant, just wanted to offer a perspective that many people might not consider. The game is designed for you but also for A LOT of other players, a lot of whom might play completely differently to you or to what's optimal. But a designer has to design for those as well.
Pss: Posted the same comment on chair's video but I think it can add to the conversation here as well.