In what ways are WoW and FFXIV similar? How are they different? Let’s discuss the strengths and weaknesses with chat!
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Comparing WoW & FFXIV Lore…
In what ways are WoW and FFXIV similar? How are they different? Let’s discuss the strengths and weaknesses with chat!
Could you read more of the FF14 stories. That last one was beautifully done!
So fun hearing you talking about some wowlore my dude!
Not a fan of WoWs dragon retcon. It goes against what they had originally written. It would have been better if they had created these new dragons based on newer lore.
ohhhhh shit lets go
Are u gonna do a review for Encyclopaedia Eorzea III whenever that releasing. I think it was around christmas?
Also something nobody talkes about anymore ,is that about a year ago (around 6.2) YoshiP "teased" that 6.x will end with a "Big Change". So with 6.5 around the corner, was it just YoshiP hyping up 7.0 or does the dev team still have a some kind of suprise for us? Becuz Dawntrail certainly didnt show/tell us anything about that.
Warcraft is a fuckin missed potential, all your predictions you did at the time of Legion/BFA were more intresting themes to explore than what they give us.
now i have an image of the spiderman clones pointing at eachother but it's each WoW story as the faces.
It's also really important to note that the power scale in XIV doesn't really increase all that much in the grand scheme of things. In ARR, we beat the shit out of one of the Unsundered. He's diminished his own strength after eons and we needed help from Hydaelyn, sure, but fast forward to ShB and EW and most of the threats are still round-about his level of power, or a creation of people like him. And, canonically, we don't 1v1 any of them, we 1v8 them and gang up on the big threats using the power of friendship with almost the sole exception of ~the Duel~
Primals aren't actual gods, they're just magic given form by fervent prayer. Their strength is determined by the volume of crystals used in their summoning and the amount of aether they've sucked up since. We're able to defeat Twitter at the end of the universe not because of our physical strength, but because of the strength of our emotional bonds we've made with others.
Are we physically stronger than the start of the journey? Absolutely. We're a whole 1/14th more rejoined than anyone else alive. But emotions and determination have as much, if not more, power than physical strength in the XIV universe and the power scales aren't really all that ludicrous because of it.
Holy shit Pyro put on his tinfoil hat. I havent seen that in years…
good to see more yt content, i rly like these talk videos, even tho i never played wow lol
Miss the old legion lore videos! Those were amazing!
Danuser realy ruined alot with his avengers story and he is still going so the lore atm is kinda meh and very predictable, also the repeating story about the titans is also happening with the primals atm, one of them has a power that he shouldnt have etc
The lore in wow was never the problem, it's usually the delivery of the lore that is dumb. I actually prefer WoW's Lore over FFIXV, however I think FFXIV tells their lore story a million times better. XIV has continuity that WoW hasn't really ever had.
WoW lore has just had too many retcons for no reason. If the original lore of WC3 was fostered and nurtured up until now, it would be so amazing. The lore was so amazing up until around Legion / BFA time when the retcons started happening and cheapening certain characters as well as oversimplifying everything as "light vs void, Old Gods just void equivalent of Naaru, yadda yadda everything is balanced". I preferred it when Yogg-saron and friends were unique villains that had their own agendas and it wasn't as simple as just them doing the voids bidding. I actually cringed during the Warcraft movie and Legion when people keep referencing "the Fel", like man just call it felfire or fel magic. Shadowlands is really what butchered everything though by introducing super OP lore characters that override and steal credit from older, more established characters, and yet somehow fall over in a single raid *cough Jailer cough*. Also, we STILL don't know anything concrete about Elune, which I guess is fine because that means she hasn't been confirmed to be a cringe one, er, I mean first one.
what if it turns out the Jailer was really just someone who talks big but it's all out of his ass?
"everything that happened to this point happened because I set it in motion. Everything from the Lich King to Sargeras etc. All of it happened because I influenced/manipulated/mindcontrolled people into acting that way"
*everyone rolling their eyes*: "sure Jane"
and people just laugh?
Technically there is a power BEYOND the ascians, and that is Ultima. She is supposedly beyond their scope and probably existed looong before them. However, Ultima was established as such ages ago, back in Stormblood (though it was only recently they added way more to her lore). I share your concern though- if they go too far or get sloppy with how it fits within the universe, it'll get messy for sure.
with how WoW's lore and story has been shaped, I'll just settle with wc3 being where canon lore is
also something that bothers me is how metzen forgot that it was KJ and Arch that corrupted Sargaras and just shrugged it off. His biggest Toriyama moment and I've never forgiven him for that change.
Explaining Elune, the after life, the life beyond the afterlife. It just takes all the magic away and is a story suicide for me. I once said that destroying Elune or revealing her mystery would be my last point and then I quit. Welp, I quit before Shadowlands due to other reasons, but they sure did go ahead and give a lot of "Beyond this and beyond this stuff" Including Elune.
Valeera > Alexstrasza
Here we go. Was hoping to start seeing more lore vids from Pyro on the FF14 side
As someone who never got into WoW, or its lore, it sounds like it's akin to the kid in school who watched DBZ, and decided to write stories wherein his bad guys are just more epic and powerful than the last. The thing is, this person forgot that compelling stories do not always need constant scales of power to create stakes, conflict, or profound moments. In addition, the focus on scale, power, and revision in it's story creates a lack of continuity, which is problematic. This lack of continuity creates a world wherein it feels less real/important because it doesn't even have reliable lore, making the world less immersive because it can change on a whim. This seems dull to me because it seems like the entire story is built on plot conveniences that service spectacle and nothing more.
Look at Shadowbringers, we know Emet Selch technically is the greatest of the Convocation of the 14 because of his raw, innate magicks and those who supported him. However, what makes him compelling is his modus operandi (he prefers to be a strategist, not doing anything directly unless he has to, and manipulates the world around him more subtly), his motivation (it is purely about saving his own people, and grasping victory from the jaws of defeat they suffered because he is a man of duty and principle), and his outlook (he is the hero of his own story, but he is weary [hence the slouch], he doesn't want glory, and he puts his perspective in a relatable and understanding way even though he's a being far beyond what we could comprehend). However, we never get a pure sense of how Emet stacks up to the other Ascians, but it's not needed.
Ok, is it a hot take to say that at the end of SL, I wasn't surprised if Sylvanas and Anduin were to become an item?
Alextrazsa is mommy
If WoW was written like FF14, we would've had a story beat where Stormwind eventually patches things over with the Defias Brotherhood and brings them back into the fold of Anduin's kingdom after doing something to make things right with them. Honestly I'm kind of hung up on that.
Also I really enjoy your insight into the lore in both games.
Any interest that I have in WoW's story died with WOD and the convoluted time/multi-verses explanation they retroactively gave after. I see no fun in speculation when the correct answer always "whatever the writer want to do regardless of the previously established lore" which in itself isn't so bad if it not done so cheaply times and times again by Blizzard.
Pyro at his best when talking about lore. i havent played retail ever if we consider post wotlk being "retail" but always loved following the lore on the sidelines. And this type of videos from you and a few other good channels is how i caught up with it and stayed hook with the story. Top tier lore clarifier!
I've always thought that scalling stakes was a dumb concept longterm. You can still have high stakes that have meaning to a story, but they don't need to outcompete the prior stakes in the story. It is not a logorythimc/exponetual/linear scale where the next number is higher by different magnitudes.
Also, I don't think that people that complain about the stakes being dropped in the next FF14 expansion and current post-game story of the 13th are correct. For me, fighting The Endsinger, the one who is trying to end the universe, is indeed high stakes, but the truth is that the endsinger is more like a cherry on top of the real stakes-cake.
And what is the actual cake? That the fight with Endsinger is an physical argument of existentialism: That even if the universe is a cruel place where suffering exists, we should not forsake life just because to live is to suffer. That life is still worth living and can be meaningfull, but that it wont get the chance to if you snuff out all life in the universe.
That is the actual stake: An argument that is shaped like a universe saving battle. That is atleast how I see it.
And as a result, if writers are good at re-contextualizing the above and communicate clearly with the players: Any end-game stakes can be whatever, as long as they frame the narrative arguments and provide a satisfying ending. No need to chase new heights like an adrenaline junkie.
Hence why I think that stakes can be like a sparodic Sinus curve going up and down with different steep angles, yet still work fine and be engaging for people.
The current plot of the 13th is the downwards curve, and yes, "saving a shard" as the story seems to go compared to the universe is essentially the same as the stakes in Shadowbringers. But the story can still be satisfying if the writers are able to contextualize a good argument or moral into the storyline while tying up loose ends and introduce the new expansion.
WoW expansions could have a more satisfying stake scaling if it were to follow a similar mentallity. Just take Battle for Azeroth. It did not have to end with introducing the Shadowlands but it still had to out do itself somehow after getting rid of the Burning Legion and pretend that the long-lasting conflict betweenthe Horde and the Alliance ending would somehow not be satisfying.
But to be fair, WoW does have one major issue with it's story elements compared to FF14: It has nearly nothing left.
WoW gave us huge portions of story, sometimes more than needed.
FF14 gave us decent-sized portions of story, but allmost always just what it needed. (Although Endwalker was well above amarican sized)
WoW has given us whole story arcs in other media like books and comics that defined/shaped their world outside the game.
FF14 has primarely stuck to the game and only given us smaller stories in other media to help flesh out the world.
WoW has often misused or barely used assets and characters much to our dissatisfaction (e.g. Baine doing abosulutely NOTHING for the rest of the Shadowlands expansion)
FF14 has often, and quite effectively, used all of its available resources and characters whenever it could. (Sometimes it has been slow at pulling in some characters, but it still does a better job at NOT forgetting character X exists and is available)
Wow establishes that the Burning Legion has wiped out all life in the universe.
FF14 establishes that The Endsinger has wiped out only a large chunk of life in the universe and that life is now on the mend for both dead, living and new worlds.
Wow has run out of big landmasses and other planets with life.
FF14 has barely covered a significant amount of it's own landmasses, the other surviving shards and planets with life.
WoW has defeated all of it's main villains (some in less than satisfying ways) and only have a few sources for villains and stories.
FF14 has also defeated it's main villains (often in far more satisfying ways) yet retained many sources for villains and stories.
In summery:
If WoW is only gonna make new stories without relying on new lore from the sidelines it can only do so by:
Actually finishing up loose ends (Like the fucking old god dagger, the rail gun in Azarah, etc.)
Explore the rest of its established lore (Like, who the fuck is the void lords that are above the old gods!?!?!)
Finally flesh out the last remaining small islands and regions (There are still some, but not a whole lot.The ragon isles is a current example)
Go on a big mary "undo the damage of the Burning Legion" space trip because the Draenai can still do space travel faster than light!
Take its roster of characters and DO NEW THINGS. (The dragonflight expansion is an attempt at this)
Or explore alternative timelines.
And while that is still a lot for a few expansion yet, ultimately FF14 on the other hand can do all of the above but also easily make new stories because:
It has massive amounts of undiscovered landmasses, alien worlds and the surviving shards that it established, yet left unexplored
Can freely write new lore to fit into the undiscovered worlds and expand on existing lore of said places without it feeling like we have been sidelined.
FF14 curretly has more potentual for long term story telling and world building, meanwhile WoW needs to be very sparring or truly step up their story writing with what is has left or invent completely new un-established lore from the sidelines to make stories on.
Hold up? You mean to tell me the Titans had access to the Halo rings? monkaS
Damn, look at the comments. The FFXIV defense force is ready to take the opportunity to say once more <insert generic statement of someone who played once or never WoW and thinks WoW = bad>. Thank god the in-game community of ffxiv is actually the one, who deserved the title of best community. This is just sad.
The community desperately needs Content Creator like Pyro. Not another Drama-Zepla or React-Xeno. Hopefully, they don’t start another witch-hunt…
Would you say that FFXIV seemingly downscaling with dawntrail is a good thing, as opposed to WoW's ever bigger bad guy thing? I personally look forward to exploring a new continent completely, but I'm totally expecting there's gonna be a new cosmic struggle after the zodiark plotline.
What I think we won't get in FFXIV anymore is a Universal scale of threat because we already had that with the Endwalker Endboss!
And what I like about the Dawntrail teaser is the detail that we now build up the "scale" of threat/the enemy but probably only up to a planetary scale and maybe a bit bigger but nothing more since we already had that all destroying evil and the teaser shows how the strength of the main "villain" now is back to normal Adventurer lvl!
+ I like how the WoL tries a new Job (Corsair/Swashbuckler) that Is not based on a Big Ass Weapon or Sword AND Shield so that his fights are a bit more Challenging from his perspective! That's at least my pov!
It's hard to predict WoW because it seems like they put all their "wouldn't it be cool" ideas in a hat and then pick a few for each expansion.
The 14 writers are so good that it makes you think they had planned this whole thing 10 years ago instead of just building on previous story. WoW is all about the current expansion, so I feel they care less about what came before. Especially now that you can level a new character and never even touch any old expansion if you don't want to.
Man I would kill for a VOD of your Dragonflight launch reaction. One of the coolest streams I've ever seen. I hate WoW but I do love your takes on the lore… You definitely seem plugged into it way more than I think even Blizzard is. For instance, the "patterns" you speak of here are definitely just a result of hack writing rather than a conscious aspect of Blizzard's writing.
One of the things I didn't like about shadowlands was the different layers of godhood. Much like Dragon Ball got very excessive with its character power levels. At some point you have to stop or it just gets ridiculous. Titans were the biggies… oh wait no it was the Shadowland zone managers! But wait the Jailer was scared of a bigger BBEG!
I mean come on!
How is wow's lore speculation more fun when ita going to be more like "There is another evil that is more evil then my evil was.", "our brother did the bad power thingie and we spanked his cheeks for it" and "Horde and Alliance must hold hands to fight the big bad evil, but after it will kill each other again :-)"
Since we are talking about lore and characterization, have we ever been actually told why Denathrius turned evil?
There's also this issue with SuperGods where there's just no reason that resonates with players for why to care.
It's like…If you worked at a gas station and you sold soda all day, you probably still wouldn't recognize the chief shareholder in the conglomerate that owns the soda company that makes the soda.
There's technically a connection, but there's emotionally NO connection.
There's also this issue with creatures that are supposed to be that huge where there aren't many viable reasons for why you and they can have a conflict that feels like a real contest, and as a result all 2-3 of those viable reasons are horribly overused. Meanwhile people try to "innovate" new reasons and find out they haven't come up with NEW reasons, they've come up with OLD reasons that were rejected for being bloody stupid.
Do you have any videos on final fantasy lore? I'd like to check it out but don't feel like reading thousands of pages for a game I never played.
Actually a great story summary, I appreciate seeing all of those disparate plot points spanning multiple years and expansions put together succinctly the way you did.
Well, we do have the 12 in FFXIV.
Why is this community so focused on WoW? Is ffxiv so low on content that people only can talk about other games (WoW) to prove the value / beeing superior? As an GW2 player, I really don't get the mentality of this community. It's actually crazy. Play the game you love and hell, instead of comparing to other games, show the people why u love it, without sh*tting on other games. I see a lot WoW lore videos on this channel from the past… where are the ffxiv lore videos? Where are the lore deep dives? This is so crazy how everyone is talking about how good the story is, but no one actually talks about it. Sure, I need to play it. And then? Deadend? Is there so less to talk about, to discuss with other people so people start talking about how bad other games are instead?
Sorry, I don't want to be "that" guy who steps in, comment on a video of a different game and basically rant about the community. It's just… strange to me. Seeing all the WoW vs FFXIV videos. I would love the hear some opinions!