Just because raiding in World of Warcraft is better, does that make it automatically better than the raids in Final Fantasy 14?
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Tbh I’ve raided in both. And what really NEEDS to matter for players is accessibility, and FFXIV does that by leaps and bounds.
In WoW you literally have to clock in like it’s a job just to prep. And I also think it has a lot to do with the people you meet in the game yourself. You can play FFXIV on both sides of the extremes of raiding or casual. And with WoW it’s like if you ain’t logging “what is you dooooin?”.
Another way to look at is that for both the RWF we all just watched, if you chose to watch them, is clearly there’s a difference in both of them.
The size of the WoW race is now so large, casuals couldnt really “compete” now can they? Not to the extent of everyone that got flown out to the streamer hotel for the event. Sure they could join in but it’s not like they will be given the real recognition for even trying except for maybe people that know them personally or even server wide.
And then in FFXIV it’s literally if you have a static, and you guys wanna try, the only thing stopping you is yourselves.
THATS A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN ACCESSIBILITY!
FF raids are better in telling players what will hapen, in WoW you really need addons to have proper view on a fight. But i still prefer WoW raids and I think Blizzards needs to better show some debuffs mechanics etc but it would require changes in UI too.
yes people think souls games are good because of it
I've never played WoW so I don't know how the raiding is like but I think they're both equally hard. However, from what I heard, WoW's raiding/boss fights are basically designed for people to use add-ons in order to beat it whereas FFXIV's do not (need someone who does WoW raiding to confirm that for me). So now I am wondering about the skill level because when you have add-ons that tells you what attacks are going to happen next, it just makes the victory feel hollow knowing you needed assistance. FFXIV is no stranger to that as well because you can have ACT do the call outs with custom triggers. The difference is that FFXIV doesn't require that to win and not a lot seem to be using these triggers/callouts (from what I can tell anyway).
LFR is too easy and feel soulless. FF does a better job with spoon feeding you an easy raid because the STORY flows right into it. I don't like the mythic tier in WoW, probably because I am not that good (lol), but that's where the combat addon argument comes in. I think they should be able to tune a raid where Normal tier raiders can overcome a Heroic raid with gear, and the same for Heroic into Mythic.
I would also assume it would be MUCH easier to design boss mechanics if they didn't have to overcomplicate them because of how much the combat addons add. Raid markers are acceptable, and maybe they could innovate and create a new raid buff a class gives that helps the raid.
World of Warcraft simply has coasted on a complete lack of competition for far too long and suddenly there's games that expose Blizzard designers for the fraudulent hacks they are.
You need 3rd party addons in WOW just to play the game properly while in FF14 shows you IN GAME what to do.
From my limited experience raiding I'm both games;
WoW difficulty comes from unexplained mechanics you have to figure out as you go.
Easier difficulties sometimes remove mechanics, making a fight feel empty.
Harder difficulties inflate the values and reduce the margin for error.
FFXIV difficulty comes from knowledge of mechanical based on previous fights you've experienced and learning the dance choreography best suited to survival.
Harder difficulties add mechanics, remove AoE markers for old mechanics (but tend to keep markers for any Savage-specific mechanics) and add an enrage timer.
There are no easier difficulties.
For wow, most players go in with knowledge on the fight thanks to the PTR.
For xiv, most players go in with knowledge on mechanics based on what the game itself has taught you.
This isn't an indepth look, but I much prefer XIVs method. Wiping feels less bullshit, learning mechanical feels intuitive and beating a fight feels great.
In wow, so many mechanics just feel like bullshit tacked on top of bullshit, requiring add-ons to keep track of everything and like the devs aren't trying to craft hard encounters but rather looking at an existing encounter and asking themselves "How can we make this harder? Add more spikes? Let's add more spikes."
People don't like games like dark souls and elden ring because they are difficult but because they are challenging
I enjoy both styles of raiding but I do feel like raiding in FF is more friendly. Overall FF is a jammed packed game with loads to do. Im still on stormblood and Im taking my time with the story. In WoW there's always FOMO. If I don't do this then I cant do this in the end and I always end up rushing to do things.
WoW just had hardest tier ever in its history. Considering the 2nd place team got mental issues due to the lenght of the tier I would say that making it hard doesn't make it good. Every game dev can use easy ways (RNG mostly) to ramp up the difficulty to infinite but that doesn't make the fights good. Like XI had a boss fight that took 16h attempts and people had to go to the hospital due to it
I raided in WoW for years (mostly HC AotC) but FF14´s savage raids are just.. so much better! No need to constantly waste food buff, no damn walking simulator and mob avoidance for 10 minutes before you reach the boss.. Plus the blessed LB3 and no ress charges makes it for such better experience.
Thanks to Preach, I've been paying some attention to WOW rwf. Yes the wow race was longer than the FF race. The Jailer itself took longer than FF's Pandaemonium race. But the length of the raid is ballooned by the number of split runs, how combat res works in wow, and the balance of the bosses. A lot of pulls and time were wasted due to early mistakes, and Jailer required all 20 players to soak missiles at phase 3 (which blizzard had to change mid race).
As a viewer, the progression for Jailer wasn't too entertaining because the entire Jailer fight can basically be summarized as Azeroth health management, bombs, knockback, defile, and falling debris. There are no huge difference for these mechanics between different phases, but watch the teams get's stuck on the first 2 phase for hours to days can be kinda boring. But once Echo has seen the end of the fight (phase 4), then it becomes exciting, as any pull can be the kill., and I want to see echo execute that perfect run with inhuman precision.
Rwf is boring in a day
in wow raids difficulty are a must, like in story prog etc, in ff14 the difficulty parts are aside from it, is not a must content, is not mandatory, respects people who doesn't like to fight and like more like to RP or do other stuff rather than fighting, but don't understimate UcoB or TEA… you would be an idiot, i've seen sooo many "wow raiders" in ff14 that are literally trolling in ultimates and savages, like no joke.
WoW raids are only “harder” because of artificial time gating nonsense. When FFXIV last had nonsense between you and just going in and progging was Burden of the Father and Son Savage. Father took 34 days and Som took 30. People mistaking extra grinding just to be able to compete due to shit tuning, poorly tested mechanics, and skinner box shenanigans for more difficult deserve the time they wasted on Torghast and Maw and split runs.
Is a game really harder when addons tell you what to do?
Most of wow's difficulty is solely due to numbers from gear. There is some difficult mechanics, don't get me wrong, but so much of it is tied to gear that eventually becomes trivialized. Honestly a lot of what makes people think wow is harder I would say is the playerbase being so attached to things like DBM that its lower the playerbase's ability to deal with mechanics that its made it hard for players to adjust to mechanics without it guiding them.
It becomes a problem in WoW raids when you get the exact scripted instructions on how to beat a boss getting it drilled in your head by your guild lead/raid lead and by the addons, and the sucky part being that its needed otherwise you have no chance due to not understanding what is actually happening and needs to be done.
Making a difficult raid is not even hard. Just drag the boss fight to 1 hr and introduce 5 different mechanics every minute where every mechanic can cause a wipe and there, you have a “hard” fight. But if it’s not fun then why even bother?
It's funny that the people who claim WoW's difficulty is what makes it better when the vast majority of them will never clear it, if even any. Race to world first scaling is atrocious and designed literally around the best of the best and will then be nerfed or overgeared. They will never clear it in the state of release and yet claim it's superior. Not only this, the fights are designed to be more or less impossible without addons because the game allows them they need to overly complicate them since the addons will make them stupidly easy otherwise. And not to mention a part of this RTWF was spent just spamming the raid on heroic over and over to funnel gear. It's not entertaining at all.
A big reason why WoW raids are "hard" is because minor mistakes leads to party wipe due to inability to recover from said mistake. If your highest DPS player fails a mechanic and dies and you have no battle res then you very well may not beat the DPS check of the fight. If you keep losing people then you may as well just wipe because you wont be able to DPS the boss HP down before your floor is nothing but death swirlies. This pushes people to bring particular classes, warlocks, DKs, and resto druids, to have access to battle res and even then you got a global cooldown on battle res, a limited number of battle res to start with, and each battle res has its own 5 minute cooldown.
With flex raiding on top of that you also run into the issue that if someone is simply not that good at their class or RNG fucked them over and they simply lack good enough gear then they progressively become more of a deficit to bring to the fight because they massively increase the HP of the boss and at certain break point makes the mechanics worse. They put ever increasing strain on your best and best geared players to DPS ever higher to make up for the deficit of someone adding more HP to the boss then they will be able to DPS off on their own. This pushes people to exclude classes that are the current balance patch victims that do low maximum DPS.
It does not help either that WoW does not really teach you mechanics nor keep a unified look for same type mechanics. Sure they will throw bare bones descriptions of mechanics into the dungeon journal but then they leave it up to you to figure out what they look like. They also make the mechanics color wise fit the theme of the expansion/zone with the area also likely having the same color scheme. Nothing like green swirly on green floor to make it hard to see where to stand.
It furthermore does not help that WoW does not like to give you shortcuts back to a boss you wiped on. You get a walk of shame that burns your time and lets people stew their frustrations and begin to direct them towards other players instead of refocusing to try again. Even if you use a warlock to summon people back you still got to wait out any long cooldowns. If you had any food buffs they were lost on death and now more resources needs to be burned for everyone to get their buffs back.
A big reason why FFXIV raids are "easy" is because the game throws recovery options and convenience at you. Every healer can battle res, Summoner and Red Mage can also battle res. Battle res is only limited by a long cast time, its mana cost, and it inflicts a debuff that nerfs your damage output that gets worse if you die too quickly after getting ressed. Food buffs wont expire when you die, and if you wipe you are right in front of the boss again with all cooldowns refreshed.
FFXIV also goes out of its way to use a unified mechanics language that it teaches you all game. The animations may be thematic but the warning symbols are not and the response to said mechanics has already been coded into your muscle memory. This raises the average skill level of the average player doing the fight. This also means the only mechanics that really need to be learned are the unique mechanics of the given fight.
FFXIV also goes out of its way to have deterministic gearing options with bad luck protection, and the fight themselves have a minimum ilvl entry limit so that you can only enter the fight when you are geared enough to clear the fight.
FFXIV also uses fixed raiding, the amount of people you bring is fixed and since everyone entering is capable of clearing the fight the only thing they need to focus on is doing mechanics and playing their class correctly throughout.
Stop crying and get better, stop complaining for being casual garbage.
I'm currently grinding out the current savage raid tiers in FF14 and none of them are clearable without looking at a guide. The others are also just too difficult that they feel impossible without a static group.
The struggle would be worth it if the end result either accomodated you fairly for your efforts, or mattered very little and emphasized on a fun raid mechanic in general. You don't NEED the gear from World of Darkness, but you need it for the Khloe Wonder Tail Journal and that DOES reward something for your efforts.
The current WoW raids? "Struggle for three hours at least. Here's some [insert expansion appropriate currency that cannot trade over anywhere else] and maybe something good next week". That's baffling, but at base, it's insulting that they justify it as 'fun'. Says a lot about the people who work on the games and turned what was once 'entertainment' into 'educational'.
"Raid in world of warcraft is better because it's hard." Said my friend who does LFR and Normal.
It's practically a herd argument, the amount of people who will really do this difficult Raid are probably the first 100 or 200 guilds that kill on mythic difficulty? the rest have already taken the nerf that Blizzard gave the bosses or will just overgear.
Raids in XIV will ramp up in difficulty later. I have raged and yelled at the screen like an asshat before lol. Earlier xpacs are more forgiving. I enjoy both(early and later), and both are fun and fulfilling.
No the human psychology around “hard” is to some people “hard’ is easy or they have made it easy for them . So now they can easily do something that is “hard” for others , that makes them feel special , they like feeling special and don’t want the situation to change and then they are not special . When a game is fun , that fun is the focus , for ALL the players , the “hard” ones and the soft ones. But wow is run by a man called ion , he runs in a guild called elitist jerks , I wish you could make this up , but you can’t . So elitist jerks like to keep being elite , and they want to do that at others people expense , that’s the whole,point of being a elite jerk . So with that kind of attitude , you have a “ hard “ game, which is not hard , it’s a barrier of entry that is easy to a small group of people but “ hard enough “ to create the elite jerk line . There are a lot of good people in wow , the elite jerks have VERY loud voices and they never ever shut up . So that’s how wow is where it is. Focus on making the game FUN and sometimes hard is fun , but just saying hard is fun for hard sake , your an elitist and probably honestly a huge jerk , whose self worth is tied up mainly in their pixelated victories .
I just gotta disagree with you here. This rtwf wasn’t even close to one of the best and it still had way more hype and was way more exciting than any raid in FF. While I think FF is fun I don’t think there is much of a comparison when it comes to this.
The video description might be a bit mistyped, mate, jsyk.
If dificulty is equivalent to fun, then Dante Must Die would be the best mode in DMC3, and thats not necerily true. The fun is in overcoming a chalenge that tied to a good combat system, and that why DMC3 is good in booth harder an also more casual modes.
Dark Souls fandom is a lot too blame because of this false equivalence of fun =difficult. DS ia fun becauae it has responsive combat, rewarding exploration, good art and intereating lore. The chalenge was part of the reward, but for the past 6 years or so, prople only seen to talk about the it.
world first for wow raid doesn't take time because it's hard, it's because dbm isn't holding their hand hard enough and they can't rely on their inexistant skill of taking decision by yourself
As i get older i find that having to do a lot of prep work in order to be effective in WoW's raids now days is insane. I have to play this game all day just to be ready for raid night or im falling behind the other teammates. As i understand it in FFXIV you mostly just have to show up, no need to do chores every day to stay on top of things. I no longer have all day to spend in a single game in order to raid. Plus raids in WoW are way too long IMO with way too much unnecessary trash in between each boss. And i have having to rebuff after each death. And as someone who only plays dps caster classes i find it especially frustrating having to move every fcking second to do numerous mechanics when i should be doing dps instead and maybe occasionally move out of the way of something. Its just too much. I ain't getting any younger either and the speed you have to hit your buttons in order to do effective dps is often times insane as well, im not a computer lol, i can only hit so many buttons at once. To me WoW's raids are not necessarily too hard but they are just too damn frustrating at this point. I played pretty much every MMORPG that has raiding under the sun and out of all i have to say the most fun i had in SWTOR raids, they are just so well designed for the most part and the mechanics are not too complex, and the best of all they have probably the best telegraph system i have ever seen in an MMO, everything is clearly visible and you instantly know what means what even if you are first time in the raid
The need for either side to defend why they like the game they do is honestly pretty funny and the incessant whining about "X is better then Y" is getting reaaally old lol Shit is flooding my feed cause I click on the occasional video. No one cares, play wtv the fuck you want, stop trying to justify a preference.