【Turn on CC for eng subs! 】This one was a very delicate topic and Yoshi-P was very careful in the way he chose his words but I did my best to translate it as accurately as I could. This is his stance on third party tools, specifically ACTs in FFXIV.
Original stream: 2020/02/06
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so many people say they use ACT for personal purposes but lets not kid ourselves, a lot out there are posting the data into their personal discords and shitting on others outside of the game.
and some may even bring it up as a point of attack when having a disagreement, in a fit of anger.
You know what. I actually can't complain about their reasoning against ACT.
He clearly wants to steer away from the toxic environment of "Scores".
I respect that.
i understand the rationale, but at least they should give a proper clientside scripting language. no, not battlemacros or anything (they dont work with a serverside game) but formalize a set of things for manipulating the fuck out of the UI.
fuck it, even saving the UX settings serverside could help.
So harass people with an excel spreadsheet or a calculator got it
… But in seriousness you can already tell who is under performing on damage just by threat meter and where you stand if you know where each role ideally sits. Might not be be specific but it does ball park a problem with 0 third party influence.
50 GB game 200hr+ free trial
"we don't know what's installed on your PERSONAL pc"
"that is your PRIVATE information"
10 MB app
you agree to shared your phone number
you agree to shared your photo lib.
you agree to shared your calling history
you agree to shared your browsing history
you agree to shared your installed app
you agree to shared your …..
So basically Yoshi-P is saying I don't think you should since its a 3rd party program but at the same time we will never actually know your using it since we wont steal your information. HOWEVER if you used it to harass someone you will immediately be punished. I think that's fair. I use ACT because I want to make sure Im doing good dps. I also use it to weed out lazy people by that I mean people that join my group and afk and just auto attack the boss. If i see there literally ruining the party for everyone else ill kick them. As for posting dps meters ill never do that nor do I shame someone for doing low dps unless there doing it on purpose.
I use ACT but not always visible, so I need to alt-tab it to see my damage. If I wiped, I see it and I know the weakest link. If I got wiped again and its because the weakest link, I always ask the team to stop fighting for a second and read guide then try again to see where it went wrong.
He’s right about what would happen if they added their own. I remember when item level became a thing in WoW. From the day it was introduced people were demanding way higher than necessary to join.
Interesting!
Keeping it in a grey area is a smart call. I think the need of pushing to such level of efficiency are only need in savage and ultimates not even in EX Trials, which is only some 20% of the overall game content, where only some 20% of the playerbase actually engage in anyways.
Having one in-game for every single content unnecessarily, available to every single player, would just yield endless reporting war that they would need to have additional staff and address more reports, which means more costs, which means more people getting banned and potentially unsubbing, no-one wins.
So let the relatively small percentage of the playerbase who wishes to engage in such level of efficiency, operate in that grey area.
I fully understand why you are saying this.
But in my Oppinion it is difficult.
Personally i came from Wow cause i loved the linear Gearingprocess it has in WotLK. And this is what we get in your Game.Love it.
FF14 Provides Content to many Type of Players. And while in Randomcontent i fully understand the Problem with ATC knowing your Numbers when it comes to Progress is essentiell (when you know how to handle it). It is about Optimizing, not about blaming and insulting.
After reading these comments,
I’ve come to the conclusion conclusion that be FF14 community is so soft that they can’t handle being told to do their job better.
this is a new one in MMOs for me
Lol… That other guy looks like he's gonna fall asleep.
I use ACT to improve myself and learn from my mistakes. But if i see others not doing enough damage and we are wiping alot i excuse myself from that with as much as possible in a very very polite way. Also i dont mention my leave due to low damage i simply say sorry guys but i gotta go cuz i have work and then i do it later. So please give your team a chance, but if there is no progress at all then tell them you have to go. But please do not shame or harass them.
I know they never will, but I wouldn’t mind having a DPS meter against striking dummies so I can ensure I’ve got my rotations right. Just for myself to practice.
Blows my mind that they would take a hardline stance and just go "well it's technically a third party tool so it's now allowed". He literally talks about how absurd that distinction gets because I think it's fairly obvious the original intention behind not wanting third party tools is to avoid the type of stuff you see in WoW where add-ons basically tell you how to do every fight and you don't have to learn anything really.
So having that stance is fine, but what he should have done Is just say, "Look we are ok with people using ACT, however if they use that information to be caustic and nasty to other players, then they risk getting banned for their behavior. We will pursue reports of ACT related harassment fervently, do NOT engage in this behavior".
It's just dumb, it's like saying we are banning hammers because someone could hypothetically use a hammer to bash someone's head in. So now nobody gets to use this extremely useful tool without risking their account.
Edit: It's also kind of stupid because it's basically telling people who enjoy trying to improve their skill in a game that their desires way of playing the game is bad, and clearly the only reason they would want to do that is so they can be toxic pieces of shit. This is obviously untrue, and improving yourself is literally the core of just about every activity people engage in, whether it's sports, games, whatever. We shouldn't be demonizing that mentality. As I've said before we should be demonizing the unsportsmanlike conduct.
A lot of people in the facebook groups use 3rd party act to badmouth other player.. they just dont get banned since no one can report them based on fb post
Yoshida: incorporating ACT into in game, will be the root of bullying. Enuff said. I suggest those players that want it stop beating on the dead horse.
I understand the concept that parsers can encourage elitism and cyber bullying. They can also be very beneficial to the party too though, it's not all negative. If you were to say notice in your party that a player had much lower health than expected and their parser info showed they were doing really low damage that would be a clear indication that they are not as well geared as the remaining players. You could use that information to adjust your party so that you don't put as much pressure on the undergeared player and can offer them advice on how to improve their gear if they're struggling to find new pieces. Poor DPS can also be attributed to not knowing how to use a rotation or being new to the dungeon and unsure of what to do, this can also be helped if players can see a person is well geared but performing poorly and can offer advice on how to improve their rotation if necessary and adjust the party to ease pressure off them or give advice on mechanics. In the end it's how the information is used, it can be used to benefit or bully with the latter being unacceptable, FFXIV has no place for detrimental behaviour or elitism.
In endgame raid content parser information is vital to be able to determine whether or not you can push pash enrage mechanics. If one player is holding your entire team back it's not fair on the rest of the team to try to force carry on and waste time and resources over one badly performing player. Sometimes it's necessary to stop and say "I'm sorry, player, but you're just not pulling your weight as you are, you need more practice or more better gear as we cannot do this with you in the team."
With the quickly growing player population (servers filling up/budget for server expansion, and store selling out of codes) they may turn to penalizing accounts that use ACTs to free up some of that space and set a firm precedent that they are not intended for the game. Better to not even try to use it.
I don't know how many of yalls that are against bringing up dps number as a critique actually do raid content. And if you guys do, how many of yalls are actually competence. How can people get better if no one let them know they can be better.
It realy is a tough situation. he clearly doesnt mind people using it. But saying it is allowed would make players more open about it ingame and would breed a toxic environment, destroying the friendly welcoming game it is now. having it the way it is now is probably for the best.
"Efficiency" is exactly how you made the game. With strict strategies along with enrage timers YOU FORCE THE PLAYERS TO BE EFFICIENT! Of course, I am referring to end game raiding. In the first set of coils this wasn't the case, Tanks tanked… Healers healed… DPS did their thing, and it was hard! But now every class is forced to DPS and DPS is a key factor in raid success. I am sorry but Yoshi makes no sense here… The game by design forces players to be efficient making tools like ACT an absolute requirement. Sad really because FFXIV did not start out like this. It's like the dev's/producers got lazy and just did the same old rinse and repeat routine (learn the dance, do optimal DPS, if you fail you get one shot and reset).
“If you wipe to enrage, you’re not allowed to know who is preventing you from clearing.” Do you realize how inane this sounds? Every example he was giving considers actually doing damage as a non-issue. If you’re unable to clear content because you can’t beat the enrage because people don’t know how to play their class you should have every right to know who the culprit is, and be able to deal with them.
Woaaaa they're so wise, calm and admirable…
bowsI'm happy I'm a part of FF14's community
It’s good to see how you’re performing compared to others as long as you don’t use it to flame people
Having played many years in WoW with Recount or something, I can completely agree with the bullying thing. At higher tiers of play you will be kicked if you can't output enough damage, if not just shit on by everyone else, outside factors or direct boss mechanics, or even being dead, don't matter. People look at the meters, draw their conclusions, and nothing can change them.
thats some genuine hacker's etiquette right there
@5:39 that already happens my dear, every ACT user posts our data into fflogs.. I play on PS4 ever since XIV released to it (I guess 2014?), yet, I have many entries in the fflogs because people in my party were logging. Care to ban them since you say it's harassment?
I totally agree that ACT should not be use for harassment purpose, however talking about it for me isnt automatically harassment or bullying.
When you a join a savage fight and you expect to realistically clear it there is a dps check involve its just how it works, so lets say 3 dps is doing 15k damage the last one is doing 10k, if the fights get cleared who cares right, but if it doesnt while the mechanics are being respected then its a dps issue its just how it is.
Of course we should not be shitting on that 10k dps guy, but is it harassment to kindly tell him that we are missing a bit of dps from him and it could help us clear the fight.
Now imagine it rubs him the wrong way, "what, you are saying im bad, im gonna report you for using ACT", and the other guy gets banned was that reamly a case of harassment ? Will they really look into it if the guy was really mean to him or will they just punish for talking about his dps ?
I repeat I condemn any kind of harassment however some people or just too sensitive about it, people are making progress, there is dps check, those fights are in the game they have design, so its ridiculous to have to act like it doesnt exist or should not be in the game, i get that he indirectly said if you use it dont talk about it but for me even if you talk about it as long as you dont harass people with it, it should be fine.
Yoshi P is very wise.
As a WoW refugee, It's honestly refreshing not being gated by achievements or DPS meters or raider.io stuff. It's fucked up how it became the norm.
So YoshiP is telling us to git gud and use our brain for calculating, i mean its not that Hard if you know the dmg of your rotations and the output/outcomming on all Mmobs and bosses