Xeno explains what he likes and what he dislikes about the World of Warcraft Race to World First and why he thinks the Ultimate Raid World Race in Final Fantasy 14 is better. He also talks about fflogs and hardcore raiding in general.
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Watching the end of that race was pretty insane though, close races are the best even if it's always the same teams
I've tried to get into the race as a viewer but half the time I switch over they're not actually progging a fight
WoW's RTWF is entertaining as fuck, but Xeems is right: it's not a true race, as it stands now.
The winner will always be one of Echo, Liquid or Method–and you could make the case that it's really just a two horse race between Echo and Liquid right now.
as a viewer one of the things I like about the race is that It's all streamed. I could see, live, when Echo took the win. I could feel the emotions of both the players and myself knowing that was it, it was the world first, the real world first.
I saw the struggles, I saw everything and I was sure that it was the world first.
As a competitor this may not matter or even be detirmental but as a viewer this is essential
different games, i agree its not really a race, but even without ptr, wow has the dungeon journal, in wow its fuguring HOW to do the thing u know the boss will do, wow fights have less mechs, but more constant
I really dislike the mentality of if one cheats, everybody does and it is the ONLY way to get things done, it just means that people at this point compete around themselves and not for the public or comunnity at all, because people might get the scene dead because everybody is "cheating" in world races in FFXIV, and I think after TOP is what happened, I also think FFLogs itself was never important and just a lot of people starting relying on it and "discovered" what was already there, that it does not means a thing in this game.
WoW I think the community itself and the people involved make the content fun to watch than the content itself like you mentioned.
fyrakk and tindral were cool to watch but like the other 70% of the race was just gearing
WoW bosses are unbalanced to the top, basically they buy equipments from other players (people sell their weekly drops to them) to increase their chances, their community think that undoable and unbalanced bosses are great to the game, the results we can see in the RWF only three groups are competing and after this, come the nerfs, basically Blizzard is using RWF to balance their game hahaha.
People remember the zoom hack because it got memed into the ground.
Yeah but the best part about WoW WFR is that it’s actually streamed. Instead of people not streaming. It’s such a buzz kill to hype. Thats why I at least only care about stream first in FFWF. If you cleared not on stream, cool but I dont care. FFWF is not fun to watch at all.
I completely get your point about fflogs and hardcore raiding. The problem is just that with that mindset, no one new will be able to join a decent group even if they might be good enough or better than you expect.
I started xiv during last tier of ShB, this expansions first tier was my first tier ever and I do not think I am a bad player.
The thing hindering me from going HC is just time. It makes no sense to me going HC if you don't race. Having to take days off just so that you clear the content in the first week is a no go to me. As far as now at least. I am looking for statics or likeminded people who are able to perform after a day of work and clear a raidtier in 6days with the limited hours. I got "gatekeeped" even from arguably worse players and that's just bs imo
please no more 14 content pepeW PUNCH
That last bit about logs is so true, people more concerned about looking good than being good. If you're 💩, own it! People don't care nearly as much as you think.
the zoom hack is a red flag imo. If they are willing to use it for, as you say, very little advantage… are you supposed to give them the benefict of the doubt that they are not using other stuff?
14 races are boring to me cause we have zero personalities in this game. I have no interest in watching a bunch of nerds who I don't know compete. I don't play WoW but have watched a few RWF and the hype and excitement surrounding WoW is way higher than 14 simply cause of the magnitude of the event. It's an official race with teams that are formed with the sole purpose of winning. If you watch football, it's the same thing there. The premier league while competitive, is really a 2 legged race between City and Liverpool, and La Liga with Real Madrid and Barcelona. Every year it's the same yet it's still exciting cause they're legimitately the best teams in their respective league go toe-to-toe.
Depending on where you stand on the debat. EU servers start later…
Something you didn't mention that limits other guilds from being competitive is the financial aspect, Echo and Liquid spend tens of thousands for these races. the WoW token ruins the actual "race" aspect of it because it limits it to a handful of guilds that can pay to be competitive.
Another important point for the WoW race is that the version of the final few bosses that the RWF gamers beat will never been seen by 98% of the raiding community. They will get nerfed multiple times over the space of a few months. There's nothing more disheartening in WoW raiding than working on a hard boss for a few weeks and getting closer and closer, and having it nerfed right in your face, killing it first pull post-nerf. Least with TOP and DSR, other than small bug fixes like the P3 and P5 autos in TOP, the version that Neverland cleared in Week 1 is the same as the one I cleared.
This race Blizzard took a better approach for the RWF tuning, overtuning the last 2 bosses and then applying total health nerfs while they were still progging and making small changes to phases they hadn't even seen yet. But the average 3-day a week raider will never get to play these bosses.
i hate how its not even about skill anymore in wow, its just about who can prepare better, get better addons, weakauras quicker etc
I can't believe people enjoy the WoW race. It lasts so long due to artificial difficulty that a lot of the viewers will miss the clear and a significant chunk of it is just gearing. Watching a race that lasts a day or a few hours sounds reasonable, but an entire week…?
Can confirm as a firm ultrawide believer. I've been using multiple ultrawides for about a decade now and I can never go back to a standard monitor especially for MMOs. The amount you can see at least from my personal experience is a major plus.
ive been so sick of log culture for so long yeah.
The thing I never see mentioned when it comes to fairness is that Liquid and Echo have been rewarded for the work they put in over literal years. The Echo team are the players that first started streaming the race after years of taking firsts offstream. Liquid, as Limit, was the unquestioned top NA guild for years. It's not that suddenly some org came in, dumped money, and now wins. These guilds built the event as we now understand it, and plenty of other guilds had their chances to compete at the start. They lost. To suddenly come back and argue about fairness is really just arguing about punishing the guilds that won and have just kept winning for nearly a decade.
good logs alone don't mean anything, you have to go check them and if you see the entire group is 98-99s, the parse doesn't represent skill. getting good parses in parse parties is stupidly easy. a high parse during just regular reclears is impressive tho.
Using a zoomhack in ultimates are lame. Particularly while in a race to get world first. No doubt they were amazing players but in the end they resorted to using a crutch to gain advantage over fellow competitors.
wow rwf is the super bowl…ff race is some elementary school math competition
I don't really have an issue with it always being the same two or three teams, wow mythic raids from what I can see aren't designed to be fully cleared in 1 lockout like how 14 raids and ultimate are, the first being balanced for a easily reachable min itemlevel (tho you need to be good to pull it off) and the latter being just solve the massive puzzle and have the dps (easier said than done). in wow you're really meant to do clear heroic a few times before even going into mythic and that what those top guilds do, they split run heroic and funnel gear to people, is it overly demanding and unrealistic for a massive amount of players, well yea, it's highly unrealistic and overly demanding because wasn't deigned to be done like this, but these top 1% players are crack heads and it's what they do.Not 1 to 1 but it's kind of like the difference between doing an ultimate day one/blind prog, vs doing an ultimate after a few months when it's been solved
The one thing I disagree is the broadcast. I like frosty and the guests but damn, people like preach and company in echos stream make it almost like a podcast, it's good enough both as a main program and as background noise
I think the biggest problem with ff14 world races is that all the teams that don't stream always get rank 1 due to obviously using "cheating" addons.
Wow plugins literally play the game for you, watch any high end raider they just have countdowns and boxes telling them what to do and where to stand
Thousands of parasocial plebs cheering for gold selling/streaming parasites while they battle it out in a content they will never even set foot in. Such a masterful, eternal design.