World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy 14 online are competitors but one’s success does not mean the other one fails.
Shill Show: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheAccolonn
Exclusive Content: https://www.patreon.com/accolonn
Twitter: https://twitter.com/theaccolonn
Discord: https://discord.gg/JjR3pAR
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/accolonn
Everything Else: https://streamerlinks.com/Accolonn
#SHADOWLANDS #MMORPG #WARCRAFTLORE
source
WoW players for years: “psssh you’re playing [insert mmo]. You’re an idiot, WoW is the greatest mmo and no other game can compete with it.“
WoW players once the game begins to collapse and FFXIV explodes in popularity: “it’s not a competition guys”
But for real, it’s not a competition and more good game options are always good for gamers
I usually dont post about WoW cause, for me, WoW since the beginnig did more harm than good. I played Wow in 2004, to try the game, played Lineag2, Mu online, Ragnarok, and any MMORPG that i could put my hands on. Everyone of theses games were unic, than WoW came…
WoW looked good form the get go, and had some good things, but was not a game that made me want to spend my time on it, too much boring grind. As I said, I played Lineage2, Mu and Ragnarok, all of those were grind AF, but WoW didn't get me… Probally because i was already fed about grind the few hours when i got home after work (i was 20 at 2004).
I was not the only one who didnt like the grind, and at that time Warcraft was a RTS game, many RTS players tried WoW, inflating the numbers even more. Every other MMORPG start to copy WoW, and all the western MMORPGs became WoW clones.
WoW always had many bad game desing, but most of us didnt notice cause it we were too busy with the new shining thing. I played for 4 months and quit it, never went back, and stoped play western MMORPGs cause every game was a copy of WoW
Coexistence only
helpsboth games… that's something people don't get.I don't think FF community cares about WoW tbh. However, I do admit that former WoW players tend to sh*t talk WoW for no other reason (kinda weird I tell you). But I think the reason should be that they love WoW by heart and if WoW can change for the better, they are willing to leave any game and come back to WoW.
For FF community, they are all single players or FF hardcore fan or FF11 players. Of course we have a large number of other MMO migrants but the core of community revolves around the og fans who have played FF series and got converted to MMO players. That's the reason why the community in FF cares so much about story. If you see any other MMOs (Guild War, New World, etc.), story is there but it's just a bonus.
Other MMOs: Gameplay > Story
FF14: Story > Gameplay.
There is no denying that FF combat is chunky, not as smooth as Guild War 2, WoW, or even Lost Ark. It has flaw, and everyone knows it. But the whole FF community doesn't care to be honest. Is there any other MMO fanbase who cares about spoilers as much as FF14 fans? Just one spoiler in a Twitch chat and people will bash you for it. Everything in the game is locked behind MSQ, even you try to skip every cutscene possible, it will take you at least a day to progress through every cutscene with skipping.
If you ask any FF players (not former WoW or any other MMOs), they will not care if WoW turns bad or not. All they want is to log in daily, take picture of their catgirls, maybe decorate their lovely houses, and AFK in Limsa. I would say majority of WoW players do raid. In FF, if you beat a savage, congratulation, you are top 10~20% of playerbase already.
In short, FF will never be able to beat WoW, because WoW players always mourn about their game. But do we care? The answer is no tbh. We just want to relax in the game because in real life we suffer enough. So we don't want any culture war or MMO war in our beloved game. Just don't talk sh*t to our game. We welcome anyone, but please don't compare 2 games together. Because they are too different. WoW gives you the best raiding experience and FF gives you the best social experience.
So i can't complain about Warcraft III reforged because i didn't bought it? Ok i am sorry Blizzard.
World of Warcraft Delanda Est
Because competition breeds excellence. If your game is at the top and a contender rises up to your level and even dethrones you it tends to inspire you to make your game even better. While this may not explain why we as players compare the two it is what should happen. I mean look at the older days of wow, they used to see older games up and coming and it made blizzard want to do better to basically beat out the competition.
As a competition side of things, yeah it's certainly is one on business side of things because people's time is short. So as a player of both games for years I eventually stopped WoW and focused on FFXIV. One simple reason is it was more fun and I had a better experience. I also played other mmorpgs as well and nothing stuck. The main reason mmos are a competition with each other is because they last for years, and time investing into that mmo. I get what you are saying about other games but those are not meant to invest time over and over again and keep up a sub to.
It should be a friendly rivalry. Hell Yoshi P is a huge WoW fan. I want both games to be great. I want the Dev teams to be constantly borrowing systems and trying to one up each other. Am the same way with ALL genres of gaming.
If you're comparing your experience with WoW to a marriage, you are in a shitty relationship. You really got to step back and look at the situation logically.
Endwalker ALONE has more lore, intense moments and meaningful character progression than WoW has had since 2010
It's more like the games themselves are competing for your time and attention. (Granted Yoshi P has said to take breaks) but with MMOs most people just stick to one. So id say yeah the games are in competition. I loved WoW for a time and was satisfied when I stopped after legion. To me that was a good way to end it. Moved on to monster hunter than destiny than ff14. All while playing other single player games.
Bruh they launched their ptr for their raids on the 3rd woops just the early access for endwalker so don’t act like we as gamers are making them do this they see ff14 as a threat and want too undermind the game, I mean just look at what they did with overwatch beta that literally killed whatever that game was called cause it’s that dead I don’t even remember the name. I enjoy your content and your talking points, but too say we are the ones making blizzard do the things they do is completely off base played since wrath so dunno if you consider that my game or not
I logged in to wow retail for the last two weeks to get up to date on a couple of my alts and my main.
What a shock it is to level..I'm being honest when I say I felt like my journey from 50 to 60 doing the main story was a solo player game.
I honestly didn't see all that many people leveling up especially Bastion and maldraxxus.
Once I got to the new content for end game of course there were players but not as many as I expected. I play on US Stormrage so it's not a low pop server.
I think I'm done for now until last major patch / pre latch of next expansion if there is one..I'm sure there will be.
It's a competition because both games are fighting for your time
Dude your shilling now you get that? WOW is Dead and I did play that shit now I look back and think what a fucking moron I was
Because it's fun comparing 2 games in the same genre.
most people don't have the time to really get invested into two MMOs at the same time. Especially with MMOs like WoW time gating their shit and requiring tons of grinding.
But I also think some competition is good. If one game innovates on a system, we should make comparisons and say "hey that is a cool thing, we should have that in our game!" I truly believe that MMOs could become better if they looked more to their competition and the cool things others have. For example, Chocobo racing is really cool, and WoW could easily do something like that, just think about the mudcart racing WQ in Revendreth, you'd but need to make it bigger, multiplayer and a bit less jank. You could even let players customize mud carts.
On the other hand, I have always loved Pokemon, and thus the WoW pet battle system. True they really overtuned the npcs in recent expansions, slowly draining the fun from it, but it was a cool thing for years. I'd love to have that in FF14 as well. And those are just two examples, obviously there's loads more. I'd want to see these games thrive on competition, but it's certainly not helpful to claim everything your cometitors do is shit.
I would say they are in healthy competition from the perspective of the developers. The games are both sub based and in the same genre. A good example is call of duty vs battlefield these two games are competing for the same market.
I mean, they're both mmos and they're both similar kinds of mmos. So ya people are going to treat them as competing. I do agree they can coexist. But that doesn't mean they aren't competing.
That said, the biggest reason why people do this with these two games specifically, is because on the WoW side you have people who have played it for 15+ years, and for many of them that's more than half their life. It's part of their identity. So a competing game to them feels like a personal threat.
And on the FF side, honestly from what I've experienced as someone who played WoW for a long time, quit a few years ago, and now have played FF for a couple years now, the vast majority of the FF players that treat it as that sort of hardcore competition are former WoW players. Most people who only ever played FF and never played WoW don't really care much about the WoW vs FF thing beyond just being happy that FF is now getting more recognition. And the former WoW players only do it because they now feel vindicated that there's a game that's getting attention that's threatening WoW and finally making Blizzard have to start at least trying to give somewhat of a shit instead of just sitting on the laurels because they think they can never be touched.
Really, Blizzard created this. They created a situation where many players resent them to the point where when they finally find something that feels better, they're SUPER excited to shit on Blizz at every opportunity. If the resentment wasn't there, there would be far less of this A vs B mentality beyond the standard competition of them being games competing in the same genre.
To be fair the ffxiv community didn’t have an issue with WoW on the beginning. It build up after hearing the WoW community talk shit constantly about ffxiv (btw I played both so not just an ffxiv player here) another note is that you don’t need to play WoW to know how toxic the player base is in game when you’re not running with friends. Now ffxiv has its own “positive toxicity” which is more just white knighting and passive aggressive bullshit. But WoW by the time ffxiv came out was well known for its horrible experiences especially as a new player. This all actually leads into wow’s problems. You jump into WoW where both the devs and the player base expect you to know your class while leveling it so instead of teaching they attack you, then you hope into ffxiv where you’re more likely to get help and support. Which game does a newly mmo player stick with? Now I want WoW to get better too, but the problem is and I think most WoW vets who left can agree is that too many wow players don’t.
youre right, it is no contest currently. XIV is curb stomping WoW at the moment. the question is, will blizzard decide to step up their game or just let it die off. looking at the 9.2 ptr and seeing things like possible gender pronouns doesnt fill me with much hope that they will. seems at best, they will just elevate it back to where is was pre-BFA, at worst, they will just censor the shit out of everything, add unnecessary bullshit, and call it a day. even the tier sets are rather underwhelming.
Witcher 3 and Farcry 6 are totally different kinds of games and came out 5 years apart, it's a bad example. A better one would be how Overwatch competed with Battleborn, or Fortnite with PUBG, League of Legends with Heroes of the Storm, etc. WoW and FF14 are both MMORPG in a medieval fantasy setting, with a monthly sub. They are aiming for the same gaming audience and most people will not want to play both at the same time, but rather focus on one mmo at a time. If you don't think this creates competition that's like seeing a Mc'Donalds open across the street from your burger joint and thinking it won't create any competition at all. Lmao.
The only competition the two should have is who can make a better game. That way the players win regardless.
I would like to counter the 'You cant complain about a game if you have not played it' argument.
Firstly I would like to state that I'm not usually a complainer, and I feel bad for those people who have had to watch a game they enjoy slowly change and die. I am not advocating the right to complain from a position of hate towards WoW.
Hear is the thing. I believe any one has the right to complain about something, if it effects them. WoW has effected every one who has played an MMO since about around 2005 or so. So any MMO gamers from that point on, can have reason to complain about it, even if they have not played it themselves.
Prior to WoW, the MMO genera was, trending toward increasing complexity and world immersion. It was aimed at the kind of nerdy neich audience that was a little bit techy, affluent enough to afford a subscription fee, and nerdy enough to be prepared to pay it.
I remember in 2004, when EQ2 and WoW were to be released within just a month or so of each other, I chose to play EQ2, because I wanted a more immersive, and more complicated game. Despite having enjoyed the Warcraft games and lore, Everquest just seemed to be focusing more on the things I was looking for in my next MMO.
At first it seemed like the rest of the MMO world agreed with me. Existing MMO gamers derided WoW and for the first year or so, there were many bleak expectations that it would fail.
But WoW didn't fail. While it failed to capture a lot of the genera's existing enthusiasts, it went on to nail the MMO formula to capture a much larger audience of people who had never played an MMO before, and would never have considered any game with a monthly fee prior. It was a massive success.
But WoW did not exist in isolation. It was so successful that it turned the heads of every MMO developer and investor, from the new to the established. Every other MMO developer started trying to emulate it. Over time the pre-existing games were patched and changed to become less complex, less immersive, and more like wow. less content was made to flesh out their worlds, and everything became about gameplay loops designed to turn the games into Jobs.
So you see, a lot of folks are bitter, and blame WoW for the loss of their favorite MMOs. Even those that are still going, are largely unrecognizable from their original visions. This isn't just WoWs fault. The no-sub guild wars, and then the rise of microtransaction games also influenced things. But no villain has a large and more obvious mustache than WoW.
I've lost more then a few MMOs that I once enjoyed, as they switched to follow WoWs metric driven game design. And I have still never played WoW. The changes I disliked in the games I played were made to emulate WoW, so I don't imagine that I would like it much. None of this is WoW's 'fault', but it is WoW's 'consequence'.
I am very sorry for the WoW players though, who have lost the game they loved. Sure they can still pay their sub, and login to a game that has the same name. But its not actually that game any more is it? Its something else. A job maybe. Its not the WoW that captured their imagination, in which they built positive memories.
Good luck WoW players. I hope Blizzard find there way and give you back the game you loved one day. The games I loved, that died a slow death to genre homogenization, aren't coming back, and the reason they turned into… the malformed things they ultimately became, was the success of WoW.
WoW set the shining financial successful example for how all MMOs should be. WoW won, and that was good for the new majority of MMO players. Because the new majority of MMO players enjoyed its solution to the MMO formula. But it won so big, and so hard, that nothing dissimilar could survive in the MMO space. It completely killed investment in innovation and deviation for close to 20 years. Am I to be denied the right to complain about that? Do I really have to have played WoW to have an opinion?
My perspective differs as a consequence of being without, while a wow players differs as a consequence of being within. In either case the right to complain is important, because complaints invite discussion, and without discussion we can not share our flawed perspectives, and will always be partial blind.
I don't actually want to complain. But I would like to reserve the right to do so.
Lol not a competition…so thats why Blizzard would constantly try to kill other mmo debuts with expansions or patches…Fuck that that. King of the mountain doesn't get to claim it was no competition when he is finally kicked off it.
Lol world of warcraft players in 2015…. warcraft is #1! I'll never play final fantasy! Thats a dumb weeb game! Warcraft is king!……..
World of warcraft players in 2021…. you know now that warcraft is losing the mmo war, it's not really fair to compare these two games…. it's not a competition guys! Come on! You can't talk bad about a game that isn't yours.
HAHAHAHAHA
I want that we have many MMOs and that they push each other to be the best they can be.
But the comparison between WoW and FF14 is no longer possible. WoW did too much wrong and (in my opinion) is dead and you can't save it anymore (at least Blizzard would never do the steps that are needed to save it, so they will basically let it die).
I don't want to say FF14 has won because it's not a competition between them. I think more I should say WoW has left the game.
I suppose it depends on how you define competition. I forget who said this but basically they said "Competition is good as long it's to raise you and not just bring other down." Having both compete with each other to be the better MMO will only make both games better, provided they don't try to outright undermine each other.
I kinda miss the whole of horde and alliance finally putting down their shit and working together to fight the legion, I liked the story of legion and prior expacs, because it wasn't Sylvanas windrunner the expac
I disagree with your opinion that people can't complain about the game because they haven't complained it. You can see a disaster and comment on it and see what is obviously wrong.
I played in classic, for me the game was dead since ICC 25 man heroic and every expansion I have played for a short time and quit for being a bad game with an updated list of complaints which I have told friends and mentioned in forums, and no, these were never a problem. Until it was a problem.
Now the common bandwagon is wow bad… and wow deserves it, these problems were obvious and now that other games have finally started pulling themselves out of wows shadow, wow has become a laughingstock. This doesn't even just apply to FF14.
I didn't came to FF14 from WoW, but I came from another Blizzard IP (Overwatch), and I notice a lot of similarities when people complain about WoW and what I heard and felt before I quit Overwatch: Devs losing touch with the community, upper-ups more worried about inflating statistics for shareholders than simply making a better game, increase in FOMO tactics for revenue, balance dedicated for the top 1% while everyone else is relegated to the void, etc.
Yet, when I voice my complaints about Overwatch on the forums, inevitably someone comes and say "well, I like the thing you are complaining about", and I always have to say that I hope they keep enjoying it, because at least that means the game is still bringing joy to a set of players, it's just that I'm not in that group anymore, and that's ok.
Just because I no longer enjoy a game, don't mean I want everyone to quit and the game to crash and burn. Quite the opposite.
I played Wow in high-school when ffxiv wasn't out from classic till pandaria when I decided to fulltime ffxiv.
I’d rather do cock and ball torture than play WoW. Spoiler alert: they’re the same thing.
I haven't played the new battlefield and it fucking sucks…so idk what u mean
Because blizzard for the past 10+ years have been grabbing ass and making it a competition. Overwatch vs battle born Wow vs literally every MMO that released. They delayed an expansion just to try to fuck over GW2. Now their community is pointing at FFXIV and asking why ass grabbing blizzard isn't putting them in their place while the FFXIV community is flaunting their time on the throne.
This isn't the first time people have tried to put WoW up against another MMO. There has been many MMOs people have tried to say are the next WoW killer.
Right? Right? Right, right?
It IS a competition to some extent and saying otherwise is a bit disingenuous. We do it with these games and not others because MMOs are VERY different from other types of games. MMOs demand an enormous amount of your time and attention. If your MMO is shit it dies. Plain and simple. People aren't going to spend a large amount of their finite time playing a dead game, even if it's AMAZING. WoW is slowly dying and FFXIV is experiencing a massive resurgence and pretending those two things aren't intrinsically linked is obviously wrong. And I say this as a 16 year WoW vet.
Complaining that game communities are tribalistic and then going on to say "you can't judge MY game" . . . Sorry but that IS the definition of tribalism. If a game is shit it's shit whether or not you've invested years of your life playing it.
you are on cppium sooo ficking hard right now
I for once is sick and tired of pretending to be nice and try to acknowledge something as being good enough because it may offence people and make me come off as a fanboy. It sucks to be on the losing side, well then suck to be you. It’s is a competition, a business competition. YoshiP doesn’t do what he does because he is a nice person, he is a businessman, and he does aim to crush the competition. Do you think he doesn’t get a pat on the back when his game overshadow WoW? The entire business strategy of FF14 since Fanfest has been to murder with kindness. Everything they have done was to show how bad WoW is and how good they are, and they have a good product to back it up. It is a ruthless competition, the amount of players that WoW bleed is the proof of that. It’s not a competition when the FF14 players say Wow suck, it’s a competition when Asmongold spent his time in the Gold Saucer doing jumping puzzles and the one moments he came back to play classic TBC he said FF14 spoiled him. It’s a bloodletting contest when YoshiP said “do these developers even play their own game?” To the most prolific WoW streamers that he invited to interview him and opened the interview by asking how Zack’s personal problem was going.
I tried wow during cataclysm and I just couldn't get into it. It just wasn't for me
Because WoW was the king for over a decade and people like kicking things when they are down.
When WoW was on the rise years ago and ffxiv was starting, everyone was saying that wow was too much, there was no way to compete against it, that it crushed the competition. Now that ffxiv is on the rise and WoW is ruined, do you change the argument saying there can be coexistence? There always could have been, but many players, especially wow players, saw everyone else as enemies rather than just different tastes. Lets just play games for fun and satisfaction