Why FFXIV Content Doesn’t Feel like WoW | Gaming Kinda
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#ffxiv #wow #discussion
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Why FFXIV Content Doesn’t Feel like WoW | Gaming Kinda
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#ffxiv #wow #discussion
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Not sure if you read comments but as a WoW player dipping their toes in FFXIV I find these cross-referencing videos really insightful and helps me bridge the gap between the two games.
Seems mostly just poor decision making, adding more systems to artificially extend the game means they are perhaps more worried about quarterly meetings and statistics than making the game enjoyable, that amount of time in development could've been spent somewhere else.. more content.. fixes.. having more iterations/patches instead of just doing one overkill readjustment at a time.
Imma be honest i still much more enjoyed doing all of torghast rather than doing bozja/castrum. I couldnt care less about deep dungeons in FFXIV, i think torghast is decent but has a lot of potential and will be improwed, whereas i dont think deep dungeons will change much.
This is the reason i have decided to main FF14 and just do wow stuff casually on the weekends. The philosophy is just to have you play regardless of fun. The game just isn't fun anymore if you want to raid heroic/dabble in mythic or above.
I agree that WoW's dev did listen to what players want, but in my opinion they failed to see the big picture when it was implemented.
As Non-WoW players, in BFA era what do you think I heard from WoW community?
– WoW losing RPG element, there is no "meaningful choice" anymore
– Cosmetics reward suck, I want to do things that progress my power level
To be honest, if Yoshi-P listen to half of what hardcore players suggest I think that would make most FFXIV players feel like WoW players right now. Because as a player we often focus on what we want and fail to see the big picture on how it interact with different part of the game or how other group of people feel or some edge case that might occur. And that's developer's job to figure those things out before they implement something.
One aspect of the conversation on why WoW players are upset about torghast is the iteration that was in beta was actually fun. Several people I know tested and Preach even did some extensive videos on it. But if I'm remembering this correctly, in essence, it was a place where there were a lot of experimental systems that would essentially break the game if they were outside of torghast. A lot of testers loved that iteration, but when it actually went live, it was totally different. Players have been asking Blizzard for that iteration ever since, but the devs outright refuse to do it. Ion in an interview even blaming the playerbase for that.
BFA's alpha and beta and launch made it abundantly clear to players, particularly players who invested lots of time to test their games that the dev team does not listen I hard disagree with you here @16:08. Preach Especially preach (he was the first and loudest), Bellular and MANY MANY other raiders/ alpha-beta testers called those systems' problems when they were introduced at Blizzcon and immediately after they tested it in alpha and called it again… go take a look at how azerite armor developed Preach was right everything he and every other beta tester pointed out went live exactly like that, literally Like garbage.
Let me be clear they did not allow us to Test Azerite Armor until 3 days before BFA launched. Whether they knew it was shit and launched it anyway or they did not care to have our opinions on it that's up to you to decide I feel it's a bit of both.
Prior to 8.3's release, Ion Hazzikostas went to one of the largest publications in North America and said we hear players' complaints about titan forging "there is too much RNG in the game", we agree and we are going to introduce a new system to fix that.
They then introduced The corruption system A Three Layered RNG fuckfest of epic proportions where u need to believe in the heart of the fucking cards to get what you want out of it.
1) Extremely tedious RNG Acquisition
2) RNG to determine the Rank of Corruption
3) WILDY VARYING RNG to get it to actually proc and the power difference between a class that got a proc and one that didn't (assuming they have similar gear) was heaven and earth, they were worlds apart Particularly with Infinite stars and Twilight devastation.
Then if that was enough, as an extra fuck you, they put all of the corruption items on a vendor that had a rotation on a set amount of them so if you didn't get lucky you would have to grind the currency for weeks on end or even Months depending on what you wanted and what content you preferred to do (re Twilight Devastation III) and THEN wait anywhere from 1 week if you were on the ball and keeping up or up to 3 or more even months for some if you missed it logging in
here is the google doc for the corruption vendor
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19gmvcgbbvRPMesFJXYZUaGx7gku5tZ1HIl3qV3eNegg/edit#gid=0
Sorry bro that doesn't sound like listening to me. This is just one or two examples but I can tell you this kind of shit is repeated every expansion every single expansion since Wrath. I cannot speak to others prior to that I wasn't aware or competent enough prior that expac to have serious opinions on data from beta or how classes worked or how the game worked prior to that expansion nor did I take part in alphas/betas prior to that
If they really did this becuase of retention metric I think they got it all wrong.
In monthly subscription based service what they sell is "ability to access services for a month" so, for them it doesn't matter how much customer use their service per month as long as customer stay subscribe for next month it's all that matter.
Well, yes.. how much customer use service does affect perceived value and in turn does affect retention rate but is it really the most important factor here? I mean just go asking around why people subscribe to Prime Video or Netflix, what will most of them answer? "because I watch movies every night" or "because I want to watch X show"
In my opinion, subscription based model is all about finding that 1 reason that make customer stay with us.
Torghast's issue is simply, it was made mandatory. Forcing people to do it multiple times potentially multiple toons per week quickly made it lose it's uniqueness and fun as it just became for quite a few a grueling chore.
All of the wow systems seem to burn u out while ff has a way of re engaging you with new systems
Just to add a little insight to the drive, last night about a dozen of my FC members just sat in the gazebo at our FC house for about two hours just hanging out.
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Subbed up, this is a fantastic channel!
tl;dr: If you don't like Palace of the dead you don't have to touch it. EVER
-"But it is the most efficient way to level a DPS alt"
Barely. If 4% is a big enough difference to make you spend 19h doing a mindnumbing soulcrushing grind instead of 20h doing a slightly more varied content, I guess!?
(disclaimer: I actually like potd. but 19h repeating floors 51~60 is mindnumbing and soulcrushing)
I don't get what full time job in WoW people are taking about. In 9.0 you only needed Torghast which could be completed in under an hour in good gear, and you would be doing it for months only if you wanted more than one or two legendaries. Outside of that you could be doing only the fun stuff (raids/M+/PvP) and never bother with anything else. That was a huge step from endless grinds of Legion and BFA.
It's so sad to me because I actually like the aesthetics of Torghast better than deep dungeons, at least better than POTD, but the implementation is awful and and the fact that it is required content somehow makes it off-putting. The other thing is all blizzard had to do was create mage tower 2.0 and it would have been a massive success, but once again instead of iterating on an idea Blizzard chose to reinvent their own wheel. It fundamentally comes down to this difference for me: In XIV i get to do what I want for the most part and I feel like I am progressing, in WOW I have to do it exactly how Blizzard wants or I feel like I am falling behind.
17:34 is a really great point. Blizzard goes radio silent, but FF keeps putting out Letters from the Producer and Fanfests between patches and expansions; they communicate with the players regularly and that makes a huge difference. The 'baby-step' approach also allows devs to see how a change is being received and if they might have to reverse it. For example, the removal of Protect. Some liked it, some initially didn't (like me). I liked that brief moment at the beginning of a dungeon when everyone waited while it was cast. It gave a pause so that dps (who let's face it were probably waiting 20 minutes or more) to get their 'head in the game' so to speak. I expected dps to go running off like idiots (scars from WoW tbh). That didn't happen, and now I'm fine with it being gone. I still miss it, but only because the spell is so iconic of FF.
The reason Torghast doesn't work, while Deep Dungeons do, is because is mandatory to get into content due to the rewards being required to make items that are BIS, and another is an optional way to progress an "alt" with rewards that are almost entirely cosmetic. Amusingly, a lot of the ideas you have with regards to Torghast are things available in the game. (Faster Hearthing, etc.) But are considered actual power gains, on item sets, etc. Because, WoW is not a game made around fun, but in fact considers time it takes to do something, a power gain. So a faster hearth, is totally powerful, since it cuts down on the time you have to spend in the game.
Also, there is that, Ultimates are quite literally, just for glamor, as are the relics for 95% of an expansion, I do wish Blizzard would just take that time, to change that unhealthy approach, about it being all about how many people do things, and make the players feel like they're playing not just their own game, but other games as well, and not just steal ideas from other games, and then rather than making them fun with their own spin, trying to make them make you feel like you have to do them, to be able to enjoy other things.
Deep dungeon solo, all day.
"IN FFXIV there's nothing that's required". MSQ: Did somebody say something just now?
Mostly yeah, things aren't required. But there is this big thing in the middle of it all that is. Still, it's a big consistent thing that doesn't get added or deleted every few patches – so you can plan around and for it.
The quality of gear should always be tied to the level of content you have cleared. Always. That's kind of the point. If all you do is standard dungeons, you don't need super-duper-uber-badass-gear. I'd love to have the gear from Savage content in FFXIV. I don't have the time to do that, however. Therefore, I'm not getting it. It's pretty simple and it works.
I really enjoyed this video. I've been listening to more FFXIV v. WoW content recently than I probably should (I think I'm missing what WoW used to be), and I've come to appreciate the conversations about design differences. Especially ones like this that look at objective data. People can talk about "fun" or "wasting time", but this did a good job of tying those feelings to game mechanics in a relatable way.
The last time I enjoyed WoW was during Legion. I played more than I had in years. The class halls and artifact weapons reminded me of my early days in WoW when I had to do rogue quests to get certain abilities. When I took a break and came back to BFA, finding that all of that content was invalidated felt awful. That's when I started distancing myself from the game.
I understand why they did it from a design point of view, but it highlights something I appreciate about FFXIV: experimental design (PotD, Eureka, Sorrow of Werlyt solo duty) goes into optional side content. If it doesn't work, it doesn't affect the core game. So you can continue to enjoy it, even if the dev team moves away from that design in the future.
Man at the very end of the video, I realized "Yeah I do Savage on Static night and that's it, I can do anything else when it isn't."
I'm not playing FFXIV to play a specific part of it. I'm playing FFXIV because I want to play FFXIV.
I was thinking about this the other day, and it might be that the two devs are working with two different measures of success. If so they're using a different metric when structuring an expansion.