After a break to reflect on why the story of Endwalker bothered me so much, I decided to bring to you my biggest, but not only, issues, and see if anyone can change my mind.
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After a break to reflect on why the story of Endwalker bothered me so much, I decided to bring to you my biggest, but not only, issues, and see if anyone can change my mind.
Follow me here for more
https://twitter.com/micadoesstuff
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I'll just say this, I was not annoyed by the escort quests in this game at all. In fact, I went out of my way to find all the blue circles so I could make sure I got all the dialogue options. I really enjoyed that.
What I did not enjoy were the stalking quests, where I had to follow someone. Those were supremely annoying. Fortunately they were few.
Endwalker main story was complete dog water, how could they go from the well thought story on ShadowBringers to this complete train wreck of a story is beyond me
Just putting this here as I watch the video so if you answer this question in the video apologies. Did you hate the Garlemald stuff? And if you did what did you hate?
Rather that creating an argument, I'll simply say that I strongly disagree with all your presented opinions. Moving on.
Sorry in advance for the essay, hopeful it’s helpful or at least shares my insight well enough.
I think some of the things you dislike, in general from the few videos I’ve seen I’m a new viewer/sub, only been playing ffxiv for a year, are very personal. Some things you don’t like you generalize that no one likes or is just plain bad. The escort mission thing is something I think falls in to this category. These are hardly escorts and are used to make things feel more alive. A character doesn’t just teleport ahead of you, they walk next to you. They’re used in narrative situations, not the heat of battle where poor ai and danger lead to a plethora of restarts. Those lead to a dislike for these “escort” missions.
As a whole I think you make some good points. Endwalker is far from a masterpiece. I think the moon after zodiark is weak. I think that the fact that Zodiark is weak is more of a testament to the work put in before hand to stop him from being complete and it doesn’t seem to weaken the plot to me. I think your “theory” of maybe the warrior of light causing the end of the world is explored with Amon/fandaniel’s taunting of us after his defeat. Surely should’ve been done better to have that effect though. I think there is not nearly enough terror to the end of the world. Most I never really doubted that things wouldn’t just go back to normal. I think exploring the world unsundered was fascinating, and because they’re closing story thread, there wouldn’t be a good opportunity to explore it in later expansions. There weren’t good story explanations to give for exploring it, but it was an interesting avenue to explore before probably never having a chance to do so again.
Most other criticisms feel valid to me, although i felt like this was a decent amount of personal complaints/over dramatization. I do understand that it’s underwhelming for the culmination of 10 years, but I think it’s foolish to ever think that anything could be created to meet those kinds of expectations. Maybe I’m just a cynic. I also understand exaggerating for content.
For some of your criticisms about how a lot of the writing unfolds, I often feel like it’s about making the omelet. You break a lot of eggs to make this finished product and I’m sure lots of compromises were made that some creators/writers didn’t want. There was really no way for SE to tie up all the loose ends cleanly. Not that a story couldn’t be written to do so, but could you make a video game around that story?
I also got the impression that you think following tropes is inherently bad. This isn’t some high art, esoteric experience or story. It’s a video game that has a release date, a budget, and an insane amount of people they’re trying to not upset. I know that you may not feel that way as much considering how it bombed initially and the small following that remained, but ffxiv is far from that now. The story short cuts that are tropes help alleviate a lot of the pain that goes into it. Did that make it worse? I think so. Did it make it bad? I don’t think so. Maybe I’m too apologetic or just didn’t have my expectations set nearly as high as you, but the expansion is fine to me. Not good, not great. Just ok. I imagine seeing not enough people seeing it’s flaws may have driven you wild though.
You keep using "us" when you should be using "my edgelord self"
All of the things that you mentioned as problems with the story (aside from the pacing) I didn't have much of a problem with. Yeah they kind of pulled the space trave, time travel and mind wiping bull out of nowhere. but that was a conceit of the setting that we were already familiar with; the power of creation magic meant that the Ancients were capable of pretty much creating anything out of aether, only limited by their imagination. I scoffed when I saw them introducing Chekhov's memory wiping device, especially when I was wondering minutes before how in the world we would have been able to interact with the past in this manner without Emet-Selch remembering us.
My biggest problem with the writing started in 5.3, believe it or not, because it was at that patch, I realized that absolutely no one of importance to the story was ever going to die again. During the final "suicide mission," when Estinien sacrificed himself, I was actually surprised, because hey, maybe they were going to try to give the ending some impact, but then it got to the point where every one of the Scions was dramatically stepping forward to sacrifice their lives for some reason I still don't understand in order to basically create one bridge after another, I was counting the minutes before they would miraculously all reappear and pat me on the back before we got on the ship to go back home. The melodrama had me rolling my eyes out of my head, when it was very clear that the writers weren't comfortable killing off any characters in order to provide a narrative stake that a story of this gravity deserves. And when I say that this began in 5.3, that's because I felt dirty basically allowing the Crystal Exarch to basically erase and replace the mind of his younger self just so he could continue to follow me around on my adventures and continue humping my leg like Haurchefant 2.0. I feel like he really should have died at that point.
At the very least, I can say that Endwalker provided closure so many story threads, and even though it was very clumsy, I recognize that this could not have been an easy task. It was also pretty frustrating to see that while some important parts of the story were rushed through without giving these story beats enough real room to breathe, there were these mandatory long stretches of absolutely nothing important happening, like you pointed out with the Post-Zodiark Mare Lamentorum quests, where I'm pretty sure they were just padding out the MSQ to add more quest content to Mare Lamentorum and have it fit more cleanly into the mold of the "mid expansion" zone and have you stick around for a full 2 levels, like Rak-tika and Azim Steppe.
And I'll say it; Labyrinthos music is dumpster juice lmao. Did Soken really write this? It stands out like a sore thumb, especially when there is so much great music in the rest of the xpac. Like, the Garlemald day theme is absolutely amazing. Wtf is up with this crickets and frogs circus choir, and what does it have to do with the Sharlayans?
I actually did quit the game though, not because of the story. I just hate the summoner redesign lol.
I wrote basically a whole essay, but oh boy it wasn't worth it so some pared down points:
-In the common vernacular of video games (and especially MMOs) "escort quest" means something specific, and the quests where scions follow us are are not it. If you did not like them, that's totally fine, but you cannot place the general distaste that gaming communities have for "escort quests" on them, because they are not those.
-Tempering has been de-fanged as a supreme threat since Shadowbringers 5.4 when we confirmed we have a cure for it. The anti-temper scales are an extension of this.
-The loporrit stuff post-Zodiark was obviously a narrative breather. It gives the audience time to catch their breath after the grim and dark of the Garlemald story and before we jump into more heavy stuff again with the Final Days in Thavnair.
-It's weird to hear you say that writers should never, ever use time travel as a plot point in story that is not based on it because it is never handled well and creates a plethora of plot holes in the same video where you talk about how you loved Shadowbringers… which had a time travel plot point in a story that otherwise had nothing to do with it. The Exarch traveled through time to change history.
-If you felt the spaceship came out of nowhere, fine, but I would issue a reminder that the Sharlayans have not only been working on facilitating the exodus to the moon for 270 years, but that they are also known for their accumulation of knowledge in a world where the insanely advanced technologies of the Allagans exist and have been in contact with the loporrits (who themselves have been preparing for interstellar travel for thousands of years with their own technology).
-I was also not the hugest fan of Meteion, but I acknowledge that, as a villain, she was less an actual villain and more a face and voice for the concept of despair until we get the reveal of the Endsinger, who then immediately became the new face/voice of the true villain, despair.
There is something you might not be aware of with regard to the reason they implemented the new type of escort quest that we see in Endwalker: many players felt that their characters had a deep connection with the Scions and wanted the opportunity to do more with them in addition to spending time with them. Lore drops are always appreciated, and were the main purpose of these escort quests since you could stop in places and talk to the character(s) for some additional lore text, but it was the time we got to spend with the Scions and the opportunities for Gposing that were the real treat here. If you want to be annoyed by the escort quests, it would in my opinion be better to direct that criticism at the sidequests. Used in MSQ, escort quests were perfect; but used for several sidequests, it became annoying as we had no real reason to care about these random characters.
The theme in Shadowbringers was mainly about finding hope in deep despair, and the First reflected that by showing you the tragic circumstances the people endured on a daily basis. By contrast, the theme of Endwalker was an actual story of hope in which we went with the intent to prevent a disaster, as opposed to rolling back one in the First. The instances of trouble we saw in Thavnair and Labyrinthos were therefore of course nothing like the sheer despair of having their lives threatened on an everyday basis like we saw in the First. Even so, characters like Khalzahl made a deep impression with how much he struggled against the difficulties his business was facing, as did Erenville with his frustrations about being greatly overworked as a gleaner.
Why would the construction of the talismans have been mentioned in Shadowbringers when not even Krile, Nidhana's friend, knew anything about them? Since they were still in an experimental phase, there was no reason for Thavnair's alchemists to mention them to the world yet. Just the same, there was no reason for Thavnair to know of a cure for tempering before Endwalker because apart from being largely an unknown to Eorzea (and especially the Scions), we also heard nothing about Primals having appeared there. You weren't paying attention to the story if you believe the towers were resolved within the first hour of the MSQ. It was not until we went to Garlemald and dealt with the Primal Anima that the towers were at all resolved as a major issue, and even then, the aether they had gathered for Fandaniel served its purpose in helping him break the seals on Zodiark's prison. This all happened at least a good 6 hours into the story, at approximately a third of the full MSQ.
There was no place for Anima and the Magus Sisters as anything other than dungeon bosses, temporary annoyances that could be dealt with expediently, because Primals were not a major focus in this expansion, and least of all those. And while I've seen some mild annoyance expressed about it, no one I've spoken to was anywhere near as angry as you seem to believe.
Zodiark was never an evil Primal, nor ever supposed to be either. Also, you are aware that the Warrior of Light's strength grows with each expansion, right? Couple that with the fact that Fandaniel always meant for us to kill Zodiark, and you have the reason why Zodiark was never going to be a real threat. Also, we did deal with the fallout of killing Zodiark, and much as I personally did not find them as interesting as other characters at first, the Loporrits were very much a part of that.
I have a feeling you missed several key parts of the expansion if you think that we didn't stay to deal with the problems in Thavnair, which is blatantly false: we stayed until matters had been somewhat stabilized through the saving of as many people as we could and the culling of as many blasphemies as we could. Past that, the only way we could aid at all in dealing with this problem was finding its source, for which we had no answers and were relying upon the Ancients, of which only one was left whom we could ask. However, not even Elidibus had any answers for us and he sent us to the only place and time where we might find them. And you know exactly why they sent us: Elidibus was sealed within the Crystal Tower on the First and we were the only person capable of traveling there.
Hydaelyn, like Zodiark, was always a Primal, though more akin to Shiva in the manner of her creation. Like all Primals, she was flawed, and like Shiva, she was born of the faith of Venat, her Heart. For you to try (and fail btw) to reduce her to some unimportant and idiotic character is proof that you're arguing in bad faith. Venat only did her best, what she felt was best, based on her many years of experience as a researcher, explorer, advisor and, most importantly, as a former Azem.
You say yourself that you liked Old Sharlayan as a country of scholars, so it makes sense that they have had people studying something that they had been warned about for a very long period of time. In addition, the Loporrits had more knowledge and expertise to provide on the topic as both Hydaelyn's creations and a tribe that had been researching and working with this type of technology for literal millenia. Also, why would Atomos make sense for you as an ultimate villain when it is nothing more than a Voidsent? It's a shame that you couldn't see the story for what it was and instead took everything at face value because the Meteia were empaths and embodiments of despair. They were not even a true villain but rather a focal point for all of the negative energies of the universe gathered from the many civilizations that they had come across. And you completely failed to bring the story back around to Hermes and instead made it seem as though Elpis was a random pit stop.
You ask SE to do better, but I'm going to ask you to do better instead. Do better in the sense of think more deeply about the story, theorize more, and give the story writers some credit because this was an amazing story. If anything, the only thing that nearly ruined this entire expansion was Zenos' continued existence because the man was a waste of space.
So you are one of 5 who hate it. Good for you 😑
Oh man, I thought I was the only one. Thanks for making this. Its a brave move considering the amount of vitriol that will be aimed at you because of it.
If the title of your video is "My criticism for Endwalker story", maybe people will try to consider your points, instead of making a counter-argument against yours. But your title and the way you presented your arguments made it sounds like the story is really bad and your opinion is the only valid one, while actually its not. I think some people already know that Endwalker is not perfect, that the story is somehow different from their expectations, but theres still some things that they love about it. This is a story for MMO Expansion, it has some limitations and differences from stories for single player games.
Shadowbringers isn't perfect either. There are some people who don't like it. I personally still don't understand some aspects about the story (including Emet Selch's motive), but I chose not to be so vocal about it bcus the things that I love about the story are more than what I dislike
I too was disappointed that our arch nemesis Zodiark died so easily. I remember playing and thinking, really, that's it? That part felt like a huge letdown. The coolest part of the whole thing for me was fist fighting Zenos.
So many of the locations felt like part one of a story that we were meant to go back to, and didn't. And it seemed like it was all in the wrong order, like the End Times presumably were meant to feel like a nightmare that covered the entire back half of the game, but we were off doing other things under no pressure at all for most of it. We got Big Unearned Closure when we should've been getting Self-contained Expansion, and vice versa. Meteion at 85, Zodiark at 90, work from there. It's crazy how unplanned this felt, for a story that was so focused on giving closure.
I actually hated how much Epiloguing they were doing by the end, all the past characters coming up in scene after scene to say "We're feeling vaguely benevolent about all this!" Couldn't they spend some of that time giving Ahewann a sendoff? Maybe check in properly with Nidhana and Matsya? Have any sort of connection with that Viera dude who just seemed to be there?
Being able to travel to the literal end of the universe was so funny, I know they wanted to make it seem like we had done A Big Thing but all it does is make the universe seem tiny and trivial. And now I'm worried that we were going to be part of a larger World of Final Fantasy multiverse lore explosion.
I actually really enjoyed Endwalker, and I don’t agree with everything that was said, but this is coming from someone who is a casual player that didn’t expect much (not saying causal players don’t have a say) and wasn’t invested in this game for a decade. Although, I really appreciate this video because it gave me another perspective from those who feel very passionate and have been invested in this game for awhile. So while I disagree with some points, I totally understand your POV in this.
You made some really great points that made me realize I naturally had the same disappointment such as the ones related to Anima, Magus sisters, and Zodiark. I was surprised to see Anima in a dungeon vs a trial, but didn’t really think much of the feelings I had then until I watched your video! As a FFX lover, I really did want more with Anima and the Magus sisters!
In the end, I’m still glad you’re sticking around, lol! I truly enjoy all your videos!
When we went to elpis I thought it was going to be a long cutscene, I was not expecting a zone and dungeon. I understood the reason they needed to fill in some gaps. But I also felt it could have been done differently.
My problem with Endwalker is it doesn't feel like an ending to anything. I feels like an excuse to wrap up some side stories…
Shadowbringers felt like the actual story's ending!
I didn't like the story for the Endwalker physical-ranged role quest. For one there was nothing 'ranged' about it and the role quest story itself was ground already covered extensively in the ShB MSQ, so was boring and predictable (to me). It felt like a throw-away storyline devised at the last minute that didn't add anything. The previous physical dps role quest (from the Crystarium) was original and made a lot more sense (as a bard anyway) because you were paired up with a hunter investigating what happened to other hunters (more or less). Plus you were given more information about the other warriors of light/darkness from that world. It added to the story.
The escorting didn't bug me that much. It just didn't seem necessary and slowed everything down. Again, it didn't add anything.
You're right about the towers. I forgot about them completely, aside from the first EW dungeon, and the only important thing about that dungeon was to get the elephant lady back. "Towers have appeared everywhere. Ack!"…"Nevermind".
With "In From the Cold", I simply despise every time they make me play as another character where every fricking ability is unfamiliar to me and I can't play in a way I feel remotely comfortable. Some people love the variety but it makes me want to pull my hair out. "What do you want from meeeee?" :'( I personally don't want any more of that, especially being forced to do it or stop advancing the MSQ. I don't feel accomplishment when I finally get through one of those duties, I am usually pissed that I had to do it at all.
As for the Endwalker story, sure it could have been done better with less confusion, plot holes, leaps in logic and last minute characters, but as someone who's only been playing half a year, I find the whole storyline for FFXIV pretty befuddling anyhow. "The story is so good!" will never come out of my mouth. Without playing previous FF's and without a wiki, most of it's a mess for me. The dragon expansion made sense, but the rest didn't really.
But being mad that they didn't make the end plot so everything is our fault…really? It would have had to be our fault they made Zodiark, and without the time travel you also don't like, how would that have happened? Hydaelyn IS our fault. So they at least went that far. But again, without time travel, that wouldn't be our fault either. Making it fit all together would be difficult for a group of writers. They've thrown so much sh*t in there over the years that tying it up had to be a nightmare. That's the problem with Endwalker really, working it out so there is some sort of answer for everything that was stuck in before. Either they didn't have the plot worked out all along, or they added in a lot that didn't fit saying "we'll figure it out later" and then really couldn't. I'm sure they did their best to work within their set parameters. For them to do it better, they would have had to close down the story over several expansions which would have caused even more loose ends, and it seems like Yoshi P. just wanted to move on ASAP, that he has a new story in mind. Endwalker is not as good as it could have been but it's definitely not as bad as it could have been either.
Good thing there is no number beside the Dislike button anymore. lol. But if this is an opinion video, I will probably respect it. No need to actually change your mind since you probably have your own already. But if this is some form of validation video for your dislike then you probably should quit, in my opinion. Remember, this is a fantasy MMORPG. All elements are there and they made sense because it has a background/lore already. Well as they say, you can't please everyone (even if it's a FFXIV/SE). If you don't like it, best to probably move on and never go back. Hehe
I am unsure whether i liked Shadowbringers more. Really hard to tell, the story in both expansions was really good.
I do agree with you that they went a bit more anime with Endwalker, but whether that was a mistake or not it's subjective.
Another subjective opinion is that the FFXIV story is the best story i've seen in any video games and i might go even further and say in any type of media.
I'll end with a fact, if you were to compare other games within the MMORPG genre you won't find any other game that comes even close to the level of storytelling that ffxiv has and it will probably remain this way for a very long time.
It's quite incredible how a guy spent 40 hours playing the new expansion and still missed all the points. But then again, if that's how he interprets the story, it his loss for lack of insight, not ours
My biggest gripe with this expansion was that I never felt like I was in the end of times, the unraveling of the star etc. ShB did give me a sense of dread and urgency after Emet took the exarch with him. The other thing that bothered me was how there was no real threat against the scions. The only time where it feels like they were in danger was the Garlemald scene with Zenos and the one with Endsinger. I knew they wouldn't kill any of them for the closing chapter, but that definitely left me disappointed. Overall ShB and HW remain at the top for me.
Alright a very long one, But I would like to first say Thank you for the video, I appreciate your critical take on the story, but I reckon you are marking the story way past what an MMO story can afford to do.
Escort Quests: You are looking it from an MMO Player POV, RPG games have plenty of it, FFXIV is RPG first MMO second. Furthermore the escort quests aren't mainly battle and protect escorts, it gives more lore. At the same time, you states that you like lore but lament the fact that the escort system doesn't allow easy story skip? I would say most FFXIV players who did not boost, and played all the way to Endwalker would welcome more time spent with their fav characters and more lore.
Shdowbrings was a world dying, whereas in Endwalker we barely even left (time flows different in the first), makes sense that it felt like any other day, most of its inhabitans are still in the dark with what is about to transpire. The towers, Garleans, Tempered People wreaking havoc, and what not is LITERALLY part of everyday life in Eorzea the live in constant danger knowing that their End is certain, one new tower on the corner of the eye just means one new threat, whats next?
The towers are Aether wells and thats all. I can agree that those massive towers are only really used as plot devices and thrown away once we went past Anima. Well …… I don't think this is really that big of a deal, not like there are anything unresolved there. Short it may be, but the towers did their job.
In regards to the part where Alphinaud's interaction with the Garleans, I can agree that it isn't the best. But it is not like they can do it any other way, not like they have an open link shell or pearl channel with the Garleans, it is a "we must go now, I am sure they are happy to receive help" mindset.
Anima and Magus Sisters, can agree, wish they were trials or raids, who knows maybe they will be a hard mode later.
Zodiark being the first Trial, there are only 3 Trials, you gotta fit him in somewhere. Also I assume that they did it like this to make you go "WTF Zodiark is the FIRST TRIAL? WHOS THE OTHER TWO?"
Loporrits, its the downtime for the story, you literally just fought Zodiark. Also if you keep pushing the Zodiark Story back you aren't going to fight a Trial until like 15 hours in. The story is about 6~8 hours in at this point. Yes you want Anime to be a Trial, but from what I can see, the trial bosses in each Expansion has a theme, this one seems to be the First and Oldest Primal Forces, Anima would stick out like a sore thumb along side here, or its going to be a massive re shuffle of the story.
I am with you on the time travel and Memory device, I especially hated that McGuffin memory erasure hack. But we get to see Emet Selch and Hydelyn so I forgive them. Also the fact that you are viewing the story as a story piece that needs to be more than an MMO story shows that you already see it as not an MMO story. Please take a step back and see that this is in the end an MMO so it needs to produce enough content to allow the players to "BE" in, so of course they need to shoehorn something in from time to time.
Ixall Air ship to Intergalactic Space Ship. The truth about space travel is that Energy is the biggest and only problem, the Ixall don't have the mother crystal. Also the Sharlyans Hoarded all the tech and are isolationists. Another analogy is, we have in America space ships that can carry ppl to the moon, but in Africa, some part of Indonesia and Amazon, some tribes still thought that Airplanes are dragons and white people are demons.
Atomos/Meteion, We caused the End of Days? I think you compartmentalized the story too much here on your critic, you wish that WE where the caused for the end of days, but that doesn't work well with the Ascians plotline which means a full rewrite. I can agree with Meteion being introduced a bit late and abrupt, but the very concept of "Hear Feel Think" was already hinted from ARR with the song "Answers" which becomes a "Revelation" to the meaning of the lyrics of those song.
ya escort quests and fetch quests are annoying but the game is called EndWalker it's in the title
Don't think you deserve any vitriol for honest opinions and I actually kinda agree with regards to Garlemald, the city/region felt scaled down and underwhelming to what I had envisioned in my head.
But that's just critique, I wasn't gonna let that subjective blemish ruin the rest of the experience for me. Endwalker for me is a masterpiece, I've even spent hours watching streamers go through my favourite story parts
Yeah I totally 110% agree with you. meteon was terrible to the point where it made me bust up laughing. the end of the universe was because of a 13 year old girl with mental issues
Garla-Mald was the biggest letdown
It sure is refreshing listening to a more critical take on Endwalker.
I think some of your points are fair (like pretty much everything about the Loporits). But most of them are just "i would have prefered this, not that" or just having your personal expectations betrayed.
In the time travel part you say that its bad and should not have been done but gives no reasons why that is apart from "its a disservice and create questions". Why is it a disservice and what questions? Emet-Selc and Hydaelin were made to look bad, according to you, but again, this is just your expectation about those characters being betrayed, not having your wishful thinking about what the characters and the story should be satisfied.
About Meteion i think (im really not sure, since you dont talk about this) you totally missed how they pretty much fit exactly on FFXIV themes since 1.0. That life is worth living (in short). If you take the story merely by its mechanical functionalities lore wise youll always have hollow and obsolete fantasies, the realisation and explorations of themes is what really matters about any story as im sure the writers that hate time travel would agree about. And this is what makes this story so powerfull and meaninfull for so many that went through it.
Well, thats all that my english writing skills allow me to say for now. Thanks for doing this video. Again, more critical takes are always welcome. Universal praise sure is boring.
I can understand your critisicim of escort quests because they are so "slow" and need the player to go on a slower pace. but Honestly I couldn't get past 7mins of the video because it was sooooooooooo slow.
Again I don't mean hate or anything, this is the first video I see on your channel so I don't know your style but just thought it was kind off weird.
I'm not sure what your expectations are. I mean during msq at the start of expansions are always easier than one that come later in the expansion. Without rotations to be hammered down by many if you make the trials at the beginning of a story too hard people will never enjoy and not invest in the story. Tbh whether an encounter is difficult or hard doesn't change the narrative of the story since is already predetermined that you will beat it and the story moves on. I will agree some of the questing could have been better let the npc ride the mount with you as an example. But the rest I can't agree with since the expectation was just far too high to support especially for the majority of the player base.
Good for you for making this…cause it's gonna get a whole lot of hate from the MSQ hardcores.
However, if I could challenge you on a few of your points, cause while I love ffxiv as a super fun theme park, I have a lot of issues with the story and its general design. Overall, I have WAY more fun than annoyances, but I still have beef. I should also mention, I think ShB is WAY overrated. IMO, the first 2/3 of ShB is filler with a really interesting ending 1/3 (comically, while paced hilariously poorly, I prefered the first 2/3 of EW and could not stand the last 1/3). As a thesis, I would say a lot of your complaints are kinda baked right into the product….i.e. it's not an issue, it's a feature.
First, your comment on epilogue, while the point stands that it could be epilogued to death in 6.1 and onwards, this game does not do denouement well AT ALL. I mean, ShB is probably the worst offender here. You play through a whole expansion learning about zodiark and emet-selch only to go – yeah, kill him….there, story done. He gets a sad end cutscene, but there is no dealing with the choices he made and our relationship to him. Don't even get me started on Elidibus….we basically kill a child who was turned to the spirit of salvation and the end point is Alisae lol so random jumping off a building after the scions jojo pose. Like….are you fucking kidding me? This especially drives me nuts as a fan of the doman restoration and all the repatriation work you do in post SB; they actually showed that there was fallout and there's more to a story than punching a villain in the face.
Second, the lack of threat the towers posed…basically cutting them off at the knee pretty much from the get go. Let's be honest, that's a good point….but, sorry, this game has consequencexiety. When it comes to tackling bigger themes/issues or handling fan favourite characters….yeah, the game is gonna kowtow to the fans. Eorzea is massively racist….what? NOOOOOOO, it's cause they're tempered, so we'll just slap a cure on that and look how good they are (despite this being the racist argument of – i'm not racist, they're just crackheads). Y'shtola dying….HA! Any kind of ramifications for G'raha lying in ShB (which I still don't get why)….nah, NOT FOR MY CUTE CATBOI….LOOK, HE'S EATING A CHEESEBURGER. There's no way they're gonna put an actual threat with any kind of consequences in front of fan favorite characters in a world they know their fans have adopted as their personality. It's a crying shame, but that's the reality.
Third – Loporrits are filler….I mean…..again, using ShB….the mine cart (they did ranjit so dirty imo…I'm interested AF about his time with the previous Minfilia's), pretty much all of raktika (coulda just been a cutscene….especially when so much of the lore of the area is done via beast tribe). Sorry, but this is a feature. And, to my understanding, is fairly common in jrpg's and anime in general….lots of filler and downtime (the classic example being dragonball z….50 episodes of yelling and screaming to prepare for a fight, then a 10 minute fight….obviously sarcasm, but memes start somewhere). In addition, some of this is gonna be for the sake of MMO….to keep people subbed and to provide gear, sidequests, eventually beast tribes, etc.
From there, I could not agree with you more. Basically you get to Elpis and find out that vegan hot topic made an emotion bomb that's gonna end the universe cause she's sadge due to vegan hot topic asking a stupid question; I actually laughed out loud when that came about. But to wrap up my point – you say that any writing guide would tell you time travel is bad unless it's a central premise….the same could go with memory manipulation….but I'm gonna take a step further: I don't think anyone who deals with story in any serious way (guide, academic, successful author) is gonna hold up MSQ as a gold standard. It's poorly paced, rarely creates any kind of real tension or stakes, is VERY trope/cliche heavy, and loves its character archetypes just a bit too much (I would also add that, personally, I think the fandom does a lot of the heavy lifting with respect to the story with very complex interpretations of what occurs and using headcanons without realizing it). That's not to say it's all bad….I think there's loads to love in the game…personally, my favourite story beats are outside of MSQ, but that's just me. In addition, who says it has to judged as gold standard but some academic….I love loads of hot garbage B movies and trash book series…that being written, I also take them for what they are. But ffxiv falls into that type of game that is the reason people like Brian David Gilbert can make hilarious youtube content ripping apart games like Kingdom Hearts for its story structure and Fire Emblem for its characters…..it's not really written to be a masterclass in storytelling, it's written for people who are looking for that kind of stuff. Like John Wick….story, garbage….action, amazing….and wouldn't you know it – it's written for people looking for the action.
Final point – you mentioned the escort quests. Yeah, I agree….but you know what gamers hate just about as much escort quests? Fetch quests. I mean, come on, if you're being honest, the quest design in ffxiv has always been kinda ass. Jocat made an….interesting?…..video on getting into ffxiv and he absolutely nails the comically bad quest design of the game. Me personally, I kinda like it…but I like easy tasks that make numbers go up…..heck, that's probably why I like the game so much. But if you're gonna have a go at escort quests, there is A LOT more to unpack there.
Honestly, I'm glad you made this video. I think too much of the ffxiv online community has smeared a bit too much toxic positivity over MSQ and is a touch too aggressive in defending it. We'd probably all be better off if we just admitted the game is a theme park to be enjoyed, not an artifact for study….
P.S. massive personal opinion, so don't take it personally – I could not disagree with you more about Alphinaud. Master diplomat? Really? I mean other than the story constantly dumping exposition on me about how super smart he is, I can't recall many instances of him demonstrating any kind of higher level intellect (hell, the first 2 expansions kinda turn around his screw ups). And his personality, I can't abide. Ultimately, he's a child and everything that comes with that (selfish, immature, etc.)…and while ShB did a lot to make him much more likeable IMO, I absolutely cannot forgive his last scene with Arenvald. Having worked with injured soldiers, the first rule is you do not make it about yourself….you try to help them. Hell, nurses in WW2 would beat the shit out of other nurses that would cry in front injured soldiers reasoning that they were just adding to the burden. Yet there Alphinaud was crying in front of someone who may never walk again being consoled by the VICTIM. Unacceptable. I get it, as a plot device he's a child who's there to move the plot forward and cause jrpg's are always about the underaged. As a character….if he were real…..I'd knock his teeth in.
Agree with everything, I would just add the unecessary "sacrifices" at the end and Zenos ex-machina, with an extremally boring scripted fight were you can't lose.
Fair assessment of your thoughts and opinions on the expansion. The primals being dungeon bosses: personally I take it as a show of just how strong we've become but I can understand your frustration. I will say that their designation as such is not set in stone ala the changes to Praetorium. As a side note, someone please explain lower Anima to me. Seriously, what's up with it? Even in X I was confused by it. Okay we got a demonic looking Virgin Mary and then… Punchy goblin
Since this video is from three months ago and the most recently uploaded I feel I should ask if you're doing alright?
Geez Louise. The only thing I agreed with is I thought the Towers were gonna play a bigger role. You know I was gonna say more on the subject but by god, I'd end up covering the whole video, I'll digress and say I vehemently disagree with everything you've said here to the very letter. This video was just grating, I can tell you dislike the game because it's like everything you said had this added stabbing twisting of a knife edge to it, where you were really over emphasizing it to the point it was discomforting to listen to.
While I personally disagree on most of this, I will completely agree on the Loporrits section. I get the point of it, but at that point of the story I just wanted to get back to Etheirys to see how events down there were progressing. I have to admit that there were two or three quests during the return to Labyrinthos that I didn't particularly enjoy either, even if I DID enjoy what they led to.
On a side not for the guys in the comments section; try not to take everything in this video too seriously. Listen to how Mica speaks about Shadowbringers here and then take a listen to his review of Shadowbringers. You might be surprised. That being said, you really shouldn't take the views of others on a narrative seriously regardless of whether they're positive or negative. The only person whose view should matter to you is your own.
I feel like I just spent 26 minutes listening to Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons.
Seriously, this is why we should ENCOURAGE bullies to beat the snot out of nerds while they are young.
This is to negative for me 😅 if I dislike soooooo much (basically everything) about a games story, I don’t waste no time and quit….. no matter how much time I’ve invested…
Also I don’t like that you generalised all your view points…. While you may disliked all of this expansion, many other really enjoyed it.
For me you sound like a burned out person, whom focuses so much on the negative because you only want to see the negative……and want everybody else to dislike it es well just because you don’t like it 😅 (I’ve met a lot of ppl like that, in different work places it’s always the same especially the generalisation of personal views)
Pls quit if u feel like it, don’t burn yourself out on stuff that YOU don’t enjoy, while OTHERS do 😅😅