These theories have been with me since the second half of Dawntrail. I’m interested to see if anyone shared my view.
Which Reflection is it? – FFXIV Theory
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There's another way Living Memory could have a sky clear of Lightning as well: It's simply at a higher elevation than the storm is. Which was my initial thought on it as it was high elevation to begin with as well. Using Electrope they can easily turn Lightning Aether into Air Aether to keep things airborne.
Regarding the Slayborough Deadwalks: the portal leading to it is clearly a voidgate, and mentions of one are in the text leading up to it. Also, everything we see in there aligns with voidsent modeling themselves to their environment.
Also, it is mentioned that this chunk of LM was lost in the previous fusion, being scattered to other shards.
I'm of the firm belief that Slayburough Deadwalks is on the 13th.
For anyone wondering about the time inconsistencies between the second and fifth calamities as well as Alexandria: The Milala, Lalafell, and Sphene all used the "Key", which in the last trial had the symbol of Azem when we used our crystal.
I believe that Key is the answer to these time inconsistencies. It's unconfirmed but I believe it's a tool or a device used to travel through time and space; just like what we did with an abundance of Aether to travel back to Elpis in the Crystal Power; however, powered by fervent desires (possibly wishes and prayers too, like our crystal). To get even crazier, Azem probably made the tool to travel wherever they wished, knowing how much of an adventurer they also were I wouldn't dismiss it either.
I find it difficult to assume the unlost world is part of a rejoined reflection. The Ascian's, Emet specifically have been very honest about when they succeed and when they fail. I feel they would be aware that the second rejoining wasn't a 100%
Additionally in the Arcadion quest line we are teased about the president. A person who is apparently powerful enough to only be challenged by Sphene in Authority.
It is likely this president will be an Ascian who was assigned to this world, which would make it an unrejoined reflection.
After all the Ascian's were pushing their agenda's right up to the moment we killed Zodiark, so the unlost world being on the brink would fit the goal of another realm that was being primed.
I understand this seems like a stretch but one of the early solution nine arts did have the symbol resembling an Ascian's mask.
I do like your theory that living memory is probably connected to another reflection now do to Inter-dimensional Fusion, and hope that ends up being the truth.
The twelfth…the unlost is the twelfth. I did not realize people did not pick up on how clearly explained that was.
Hardly related but im sure the "Echoes" of Vanadiel has more of a meaning than we think. Echoes being the past, and Vanadiel taking place in our past would make some sense but if it is its own shard that would be sick too.
“Unaspected” is still correct. Dark and Light are not elemental aspects, they are polarities.
The Seventh wasn’t aspected towards any element, it was all elements tipped to the Astral polarity.
I'm of the mindset that Alexandria is from the 12th Reflection, and that Everkeep and its surrounding land, were kept safe in the interdimensional rift by Everkeep's Barrier.
The reason we see clouds and a sky after Living Memory gets shut down is because Living Memory itself is still inside of Everkeep. It is more or less Labyrinthos but at the top of a tower instead of down in a hole. The entire place was augmented reality, and this is just how it looks when there are no Endless to influence its appearance, much like how all of its Electrope structures turn from gold to grey.
As for the Millala fly in the ointment… the process for Interdimensional Fusion is unclear, but one thing about it is clear… It does not account for temporal displacement only spatial. The time progression of the initiator seeming to be the time that is run by the fused area. I think that when the Millala initiated an emergency interdimensional fusion, they did not realize what they were doing, and in the rushed doing of it, they actually crossed back in time in addition to just shard traveling, and that this will be a setup for the writers to do whatever they want in the future by having the WoL go to any shard they want, at any time period they want them in. (actually I think the writers weren't caring about the background detail of the order of the calamities. It is an easy thing to retcon, after all, as the order the calamities occurred in has not been important to the story until now).
It's at least supporting my theory from long ago that other worlds within the franchise would serve as reflections. Also, when they say they're aspected toward an element, is there a possibility in intervention that made one of the reflections that didn't have one, end up leaning toward an element. I could see Gaia falling victim to that.
Alexandria is like Eulmore, the last point of stability in an otherwise lost shard ready for rejoining. There are 13 reflections and 8 possible affinities, some are going to have to repeat, just so long as we follow up a neutral rejoining by getting back to the cycle it will be fine. The milala traveled to that reflection, likely with ascian help, after the fifth calmity which means it has to be after the second, because Emet didnt know how to manage time travel. This was supposed to be the reflection joined for the ninth calamity, just held in stasis. Its why we were told explicitly to go there, to clean up the mess the Ascians left after Hades fully entrusted us with the future of the star.
I think the sky in living memory is actually outside of heritage found, since they partially rejoined already.
So I've seen this a few times now, that ffxi is only a shard of ffxiv's world. I don't think id like that very much. I like ffxiv referencing older FFs and even reflections that are similar to old FFs like Alexandria….. But to say an entire FF game is just a lesser version of FFXIV's fractured world rubs me the wrong way. Thinking of FF9 ending the way ffxiv's Alexandria ended is incredibly depressing. Itd be much better for both to be separate things. I dunno.
As for the topic at hand, i like your theories but it seems messy to make Living Memory need with another world. We've never a final zone be the foot on the proverbial door to a while nother region to explore. How would that be handled ? Would we just not to get to explore that region at all? Would it just be a throwaway line from an NPC that living memory is there if we do explore it? Would they do something new and make Living Memory the entrance to this new reflection?
I have other thoughts but they're probably all wrong so. 😂 Anyway.
Interesting theory, the issue with it is Krile's parents are descendents of those who came from the 5th Umbral Calamity. The Elder used the Keystone to travel from the Source to Alexandria.
If the reflection was the one described it would have already rejoined with the Source long long before Krile's ancestors left to escape the 5th.
If this holds true that places Alexandria as the 6th Reflection
Me: Focused on listening to the theory because this is a very interesting topic
Wyrm Limion: Let me put Living Memory OST in the background and remind you what you went through in the MSQ
It would need to be the twelfth. There was only one failed rejoining, the 13th. There were 7 successful rejoinings with an 8 narrowly averted. It was my impression that what we encountered was a pocket dimension from a rejoined shard. Thus the need to use souls in instant revivals as there was no lifestream left. I think the AloAlo Lalafels used the "key" to escape thge 5th and ended up on a doomed shard that, by source reckoning had already been rejoined a couple of thousand years prior. They escaped one calamity just to run right into another one.
During the final trial when the clouds part for the takeshi's castle/find a hole segment, if you look down the "world" is a dust cloud with large shattered rocks drifting in zero gravity, some with parts of ruined structures on them. This was likely a peek outside.
The theory on the trip to the deadwalk and the tie in to 11 is a very, very cool one.
it's not the 12th lol
it's one of the shards still unrejoined. so 4th 8th 9th or 11th
since these 4 are the choices it's clearly the 9th
Small clairification Light is astral Dark is umbral cuz ya know thats what astral and umbral mean…
I definitely think the Unlost World may very well not be situated in the reflection Alexandria is originally from. That was my original assumption even prior to watching your video, and I'm even more convinced now.
Alexandria being the 12th complicates things so much
It still can be explained by time dilation shenanigans that the lalas got there after the fifth but before the second but it adds so many complications
No shard can be straight up another game because it would undermine it.
Maybe in the post patches we can see what's around Living Memory. If its all emptiness than we are on the 12 floating in the rift. If there is land around us then we are on one of the four unaspected reflections seeing as there is clear skies. I think it's most likely we are on the 12 and the skies are clear because the 12th rejoined and there is no calamity presently going on. Then again The Straybourgh Deadwalk is in the 12th because there is endless there and the enemies are made of Electrope, and since the opening cutscene is the cutscene used for reflection travel that would imply that Living Memory is currently not in the 12th reflection. We cannot definitively say anything at this time.
Was going with Alexandria being the 12th as well mainly cause of the lightning. Found a theory chart online saying that the kingdom somehow time travelled and escaped the rejoining to the source. If it connected with the source through the portal in Skydeep Cenote, or that portal is to another reflection that Alexandria arrived on.
Started hearing it could just be the 9th reflection cause of FF9 references. But it could also be the 4th, 8th or 11th. Saying it's the 9th cause of FF9 could make sense.
But the 13th was FF4 mixed with FF3 when the world is covered in darkness. 7th reflection was lost to darkness when the ascians figured out how to use it and was probably FF3.
The calamity on the 12th would've also destroyed the aethereal sea, hence why Everkeep was running out of souls/aether to keep their civilization going. The calamity wouldn't have destroyed the planet, its just a overly Lightning aspected husk. I think the unlost world is still on the 12th.
11th is FFXI vanadiel
It's the 12th.
I always assumed reflections ceased to exist when rejoined.
2:30 The element the Ascians use to rejoin is irrelevant so far as having to maintain a "balance"; it only has to match the elemental leaning in the source to cause a rejoining to occur. They could have used 7 fire aspected rejoinings if they wanted to, but they probably found that impossible to achieve/inconvenient or found that rejoining the same element over and over would cause problems — in which case they probably only required a vague balance and could fix any leanings with time and effort afterwards. My guess is that each of the shards were more predisposed to certain elements and just exploited those pre-existing elemental leanings- whatever was most achievable in the least amount of time.
Also, Etheirys always returns to normal after a calamity despite an entire shard aspected to a single element rejoining- there being an additional rejoining of another element has no precedent for causing an irreversible imbalance. Also, the way we know rejoinings to work means they MUST be aspected to an element: the 7th being unaspected cannot be and it being aspected to darkness was always the case or (if otherwise stated) a necessary retcon to make the method used to rejoin consistent.
the most likely reasoning is that whatever shard Alexandria exists in is one that was primed to be rejoined like the first was and only required a lightning aspected calamity to occur in the source for a rejoining to occur. This would also explain why Emet sent us looking for the golden city, him and his comrades would be more than aware of their meddling in pushing Alexandria's shard to the brink of rejoining as well as the presence of the Azem Artifact. Unless demonstrated otherwise, shards that are rejoined no longer exist.
Can the living memory not also be just a digital world? Like a cloud? The weather in that area is the think that confused me too.
I think the new world could be number 9 just because of FFIX
If Living Memory had merged with another shard, I would have expected the golden gate to have shut itself or malfunctioned. Nothing happened to the gate at all, however.
There was an interview recently that touched upon this.
I recommend to look up: "JE 2024 : Interview Naoki Yoshida (FF14 – EN)" on google.
Which is where I copy and pasted this part from.
Finaland : I haven't had a chance to do it yet, but following what we learn in the Living Memory, my friends told me about it with a summary.
Naoki Yoshida : It's a pretty important point of lore. If you're interested, I urge you to play the Aloalo Island dungeon, because you're going to learn a lot of things that are linked to what's going on, particularly with Krile's story. Rather than listening to a summary, I invite you to dive in, and I think the various clues in this content should help you to understand a little better the situation you've found yourself in.
I'm going to make a small point about reflections. What you can find in the Encyclopaedia Eorzea is considered canon. There won't be any plot twists like “It was written in the Enclyclopaedia Eorzea that this world had disappeared because of a calamity and rejoined the Source, but in reality it hadn't disappeared at all”. On the other hand, it's important to understand that when a reflection disappears, it's a world that had a history, that had a civilization, and we don't know exactly what may have happened on this world and the history of this people at the time of the calamity.
The Ascians and creatures who are able to navigate through space and time are the ones who cause the calamity in differents worlds. The clues you may be looking for, or at least the answers you're looking for, surely lie in the events that led to the different calamity, since we've seen that in the First, it's a flood of light… But there can be different floods. We saw the Flood of Darkness in the 13th reflection. So what kind of flood, what kind of calamity could have affected the various reflections to bring them into the Source, and what about the history, what about the events occurred up to that point to arrive at these consequences? Perhaps these are the answers to the game's many remaining mysteries.
For example, if you did the Warring Triad quests in the Heavensward era, you met a character called Unukalhai, a young boy who was brought back from the 13th reflection by Elidibus. He is a character who arrived on this world before the Flood of Darkness and the transformation of the inhabitants into Voidsent. If he could have been transported from one world to another before the arrival of a flood and a calamity, perhaps it's possible that other peoples could have crossed reflections and other worlds, moving from one world to another to avoid certain catastrophes. I'm going to stop here because I feel I'm revealing too much (laughs). I'd have to draw up a diagram to explain it in more detail!
Go back to the Encyclopaedia Eorzea, take a look at the diagram of the different reflections and make a history of what has disappeared. This should help you.
The way we imagine space-time in FFXIV is what's known as the branch theory, i.e. there isn't just one timeline, but each time an event occurs, it splits into different branches. So the branch where the 8th Umbral Calamity took place, i.e. the poisoning of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and the Warrior of Light, their death, the awakening of G'raha Tia in the Crystal Tower, who will return to the past with the Crystal Tower etc… This branch of space-time, it still exists and indeed it continues even after G'raha's departure. If we had to sum it up in a single word, it's a bit like the theory of the Multiverse.
There's a story in Tales from the Shadows, after the 8th Calamity and after G'raha's departure, to show you that life somewhere continues on this version of the Source which is no longer ours, since the future has been changed. I think that, having sent G'raha Tia into the past, those who remained are still fighting to defend their future, and in this version of reality, Emet-Selch is surely their greatest foe, and they're facing unknown threats. Since the Warrior of Light is dead, no one can stop or kill him, so somewhat he's still alive there.
isn't it the 12th since thats the shard collapsed by lightning during Emet-Selch's Crystal Tower Powerpoint? I mean, we know that portions of sundered shards can appear on other shards, so I figured the preserved Alexandria 'landed' on Etherys.. hmmm
I'm still personally curious about how the Millala escaped the 5th calamity by seemingly time traveling to the 12th at a time before the 2nd calamity happened. With how Azem seems to have a weird relation with time (ie; telling Themis that he could meet the WoL in Elpis), it may very well be that the key can just do that.
I am also still unconvinced that they would relegate any other FF game to being a shard within 14, it just seems incredibly diminishing towards those other titles and their stories, and I don't think the XIV team would do that. I'm more expecting a Dark Apocalypse type raid series, where an unexplained portal links the two worlds without forcing one to exist within the same reality as the other.
I always thought it was kinda obvious which reflection it was, as I understand it. The Alexandrians are residents of 11th shard and the reason why they experienced the massive Lightning storms was because they were doing some interdimensional shenanigans and pulled some of the Lightning aspected aether from now joined 12th shard.
OR, They also could have just experienced decades long massive Lightning storms becuz the 12th was rejoining only because they were so close to it and there was alot of spillover Lightning aether close to them.
And the only reason why they didnt notice the massive floods of the Rejoining of 10th was because they were already living under a dome by then. That is the only way to make sense the entire sequence of events which doesnt speculate massively and doesnt make some weird exceptions to the rules of the Universe.
My proof is that there is already evidence of something like thay happening, Source having Calamities with each Rejoining becuz of the massive flow of aether moving from one to another. AND also Source gets alot of voidsent only because they are so close to the 13th. There is no reason to assume that other reflection arent affected by their Neibhouring reflections Rejoining either.
I hate that people assume its the 9th just because its from FF9. Ive never played the game so for me it doesnt matter.
Also look back on Emet Selchs explanation of the reflections, there is no proof that anything from a reflection remains after Rejoining. if Alexandrians were from 12th then they would have also rejoined with their reflection counterpart. The dome and people in it also had aether, the Great Rejoining would have swallowed them all. They especially reminded us about that with the Trolley Guy form the First. I would have accepted your theory alot more if the Lalafells moving to Alexandria during 5th Calamity from the Source which is easily thousands of years after the Second Calamity wouldnt have been hammered into us so hard during MSQ. We went on a tour guide about it lol.
Why is time travel suddenly such a hurdle when G'raha did it in Shadowbringers, and the WoL did it in Endwalker? Endwalker, in fact, proved a person can go to a world that has been destroyed. I think it's much more likely that Azem's Key is a compliment to Azem's Crystals. Instead of summoning allies, it sends you to potential allies. That would explain why the gate opened at the exact moment Baldesion was around to take Krile into his care. If Azem did in fact create the crystal the key is built around, it's original purpose could not have been travel between reflections because, as far as we know, Azem was sundered with the rest of Etheirys before there were any reflections to travel to. My assumption is that the chaos of a Calamity, when the walls between reflections are weakest, the Key ripped a hole in spacetime, much like the Crystal Tower did in previous expansion, and the tracking spell drew them into the past of the 12th more or less on accident. Hydaelyn was more active then and we know she's aware of time travel and Azem's magic, so maybe she guided them there. I've seen some comments on other website about why the ascians wouldn't realize a group of lalafels suddenly disappeared on the Source and/or appeared on the 12th in the past. My answer is the Ascians are not omniscient and are numb to the genocides they commit. What's one small island nation vanished beneath the ice to creatures that are bored of murdering entire worlds? Also we met Lahabrea and Ilidibus in the past, and neither of them realized we were time travelers. I don't think Emet even realized G'raha was a time traveler until he took his hood off, despite the massive flipping Tower staring him in the face.
Also we don't know enough about how three rejoining works, during the world be Calamity and rehoming of the first, Graha used the other in the crystal tower to travel back in time to the first, before the rejoining, but is the rejoining was already happening, the first wouldn't even exist. The mechanisations of reminding could mean that the world is just left aetherless, much like living memory is more (but there are still pockets if aether left).
So, if civilizations like Alexandria are able to save themselves from the remaining then they could still be left in tact on an aetherless world, making aether a finite resource like we see with Alexandria.
I don't believe a rejoining can happen with a neutral or balanced shard. If memory serves, Emet-Selch explains it during ShB – they have to tip a shard to an aspect, and use a countering aspect in the source to trigger the rejoining itself. With the first, he tipped it towards Light. Alongside that, he promoted the use of Black Rose in the source to increase the balance of dark here – the rejoining taking place to neutralise it as the opposites are drawn into each other, as happened in the original timeline that we averted. It also makes sense that the Ascians would likely prime multiple shards concurrently once they'd worked out how to get the rejoining working – this world being lined up as the 9th rejoining. (fitting as our 8th rejoining had Eden and the VIII-inspired content), and as an Astral element, would help mitigate the effects of rejoining with the First, and keeps with the alternating Umbral-Astral pattern seen so far with rejoinings 1 through 8, presumably using a pendulums momentum to help trigger each successive rejoining.
Additionally, so far any time-travel shenanigans have been related to Alexander. Either by Alexander itself, or by one created in the future to replicate the effects (pushing the Crystal Tower into the past, and the same used to help open the passage to Elpis). While I can't rule out the key having such powers as it's largely unknown, it makes sense that it would keep this link.
I dont know if it matters but living memory has the same skybox as elpis except it has a moon when elpis doesnt
I think it's the fourth, it's the only one that makes sense.Besides just going, it's based off final fantasy, nine ninth shard
The 8th is earth 616. jk. One reflection, possibly the last one, should be the player's world. Ours, with a little bit of Final Fantasy twists. Aethrytes are hidden in famous landmarks. Big Ben, Statue of Liberty, Burj Khalifa, etc. That, or make it different names and such but very obvious it's our world.
For the sake of simplicity, I'd say it's the 9th, because it's based of Final Fantasy 9
i think its also worth noting that dt's msq employs the first coins and have also changed the description of them
why give us nightworld pieces if there is some other ancient civilisation
It should be the ninth lol
9th
All this wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff 🤯
We don't really even have a confirmation that their world was destroyed. Preservation was only able to save a portion of their people from what was effectively a lightning nuke that wiped out the entire continent, but we don't know that it hit the entire rest of their world. I'm against the idea of it being the 12th largely because it's too easy of an explanation. It's not really even that easy of an explanation because it has to jump through hoops to get there, considering the Millala are all but openly stated to be from the south sea islands, which froze over during the ice calamity. The key can traverse worlds, but it's not been shown to traverse time, and time only moves forwards (unless you're Alexander, then it moves whatever direction you want). At the end of the day, though, it's just too easy of an explanation. It'd be even more poetic that Living Memory was so distracted by its own delusions that it failed to notice that its own world had recovered all on its own, without Ascians to push it to a rejoining.
My take on living memory was it was a mockup of what Alexandria used to be and had basically a VR projection over the buildings which is why when you turn off the towers they go gray like that.
I'm still sticking to my theory about the axis in the reflections that splits them in the middle between the source and the seventh.
I think the Thirteenth and First should never have been attempted to be rejoined with darkness and light.
And the 6.x story is set up to cancel out the darkness and light abundance in the Thirteenth and First.
Assuming this will make it possible for all the elements in each astral and umbral aspect be able to be represented in the reflections.
Not exactly about Alexandria, but it narrows the possibility for which reflection Alexandria came from to the Twelfth, since no other reflection has been rejoined with lightning.
The interdimensional fusion device simply "safely" rejoined the rest of the Twelfth.
I think the unlost world is a construct just like the matrix.
And defeating the AI that assumed control of Sphene's stored memories just made the system reset.
I would agree with this theory but given the chronological order of rejoinings, and how the Second Umbral Calamity (Levin) happened thousands of years before the Fifth Umbral Calamity, that being of Ice, it simply doesn't make sense to me. To explain, in Living Memory we discover that the Milala peoples hailed from 'another world' and brought with them a various few things along with them, that being arcanistry (arcanist / scholar abilities), and the key, and spoke of an island homeland that froze over that pushed them to find a new home. This happened before the great calamity that swallowed the Unlost World. Regardless in which way the messy timeways of the interdimensional rift provide to each shard, it by the end has to come back relative to the source, and up to this point, the Twelfth world was gone by thousands of years before Electrope, Interdimensional Fusion, and the subsequent building of Everkeep could even take place.
We learn that this is the connection due to the Aloalo Island variant dungeon in Endwalker, where we learn about the mysterious disappearance of the Lalafell civilization that vanished at the cusp of the Fifth Umbral Calamity, in which Etheiryian historians believe the tribes and civilizations present went extinct. Thorough analysis however proves that they didn't really go anywhere else, and that they're more or less an empty spot on the map where their trail simply ends. It's effectively all but directly stated that the Milala of the Unlost World are simply the native Lalafell of the South Sea Isles. Meaning, it cannot be the Twelfth, as the Fifth Umbral Calamity is a direct catalyst for the understanding of Dimensional Fusion, among other interactions in Alexandria's world.