It might not be particularly clear where in the hierarchy of skill a Mentor is supposed to be, or how much they are supposed to know, or how well they are supposed to teach. In this video, I will go over these things from the perspective of real mentors in real life!
Other videos mentioned in this video:
10 More mechanics the game doesn’t explain: https://youtu.be/O9Sw4Xk0eRg
Mentor Roulette Sucks: https://youtu.be/VRgLiprMS74
How to Report Another Player: https://youtu.be/OWy4EpAAgqs
Discord Community Server, come hang out:
https://discord.gg/FDNFgEYyaT
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CaetsuChaijiCh
Music Used:
FFXIV Endwalker – Cradle of Hope
#ffxiv #endwalker
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:20 The Mentor Contract
01:56 What IS a Mentor?
04:13 “All Mentors I see are Bad”
05:44 “All Mentors think they know better!”
07:17 “Mentors never help!”
08:11 “Mentors should be Legends and know all content!”
09:17 “Mentors are Rude, Toxic, or Worse!”
10:12 Conclusion
11:27 Fun Fact
source
I really like helping people with anything game related, but I take my crown off unless I do mentor roulettes which forces it on. The mentor stigma rubs on me way too hard. I also used to try my best to help people which resulted in them being very hostile or passive agressive towards me despite me wording things kindly. I wish people were more open to advice but I won't really give out any unless it's extremely crucial or people ask for it. When I try to give advice I usually do it at the end of the dungeon before leaving because I am scared of the backlash if it ever happens.
As a proud member of, shout out to the Faerie NN community, definitely an amazing community full of helpful and friendly people, sprouts and mentors alike.
As a mentor with Astrope, I certainly agree with what's been said as a whole. Even as experienced as I am, I still mess up in dungeons from time to time and certainly don't think myself as knowing better than others or perfect. Though, I certainly recognise I know more basic stuff and/or am aware of how to look for/avoid certain issues and if I can communicate that to sprouts when they need help, I'm happy that I'm fulfilling my role. For anything more than that, yeah, I'll just use google, lol.
I can certainly say I've been guilty of being quiet in dungeons in the past, partially because of previous backlash, partially because if you see someone mess up once, I'm not going to immediately jump on and explain what they did wrong, it may have been a minor mistake. On top of which, sometimes I'm just quiet because there's simply nothing to say, everything is smooth and no one is doing anything egregiously and obviously wrong
One of my biggest peeves is so many mentors immediately backing out of EX stuff when they get it in mentor roulette. Whilst I get it's more challenging content and whether it should be in mentor roulette is a debate in itself, effectively abusing the mentor roulette system in order to more easily get the mount is awful. I, for one, especially by the end of that grind, was glad to see EX stuff in mentor, I was glad to help and happy to know I was a part in many sprouts first clear of an EX or even their first EX.
Certainly agree with the common idea of many that the symbol should be a watering can and not a crown to deter those who'd only do it for a status symbol
When I started playing FFXIV, I had little-to-no idea about mentors or sprouts (other than that I had one next to my name), and I didn't end up joining NN until halfway through Stormblood. Fortunately, the mentor who did end up inviting me was both helpful and friendly, and we ended up becoming friends past just NN. So much so, in fact, that despite my later homeworld shift (from Sargatanas to Adamantoise), we've remained friends and I still visit Sargatanas occasionally. It was her friendliness that eventually made me choose to gain mentor status of my own – and now I try to be as helpful and friendly as I received from my mentor/friend.
I have a crown, but i always toggle it off. I try to help when i can, but being relied upon makes me nervous. I only unlocked the crown because i figured: why not? But i prefer to have it toggled off anyways
I only wear the BK crown to give the sprouts in my FC an EXP bonus.
I haven't had many interactions with mentors as a sprout, but I did meet one in Bozja that explained and helped me and a second sprout to understand that mess.
I think this is a very good video and recommend it to all players! Yes, even Mentors, too! Just to remind everyone what's the job of a mentor is in the first place.
Very good video, thank you!
I remember this healer resing the dps in a failing normal raid. I just told them to res tank, other healer, dps. I wasn't even made. I was just direct. They left saying I was offensive and so did some others. Such things are rare, but i can see how someone could be put off giving advice when it happens.
To me, the philosophy of being a mentor feels like something that should be purely common sense, showing courtesy, offering guidance, and being that wisened older sibling to someone who is learning their way, like a baby taking their first steps and showing how proud you are of them. Now is that being more idealistic than the norm? Most likely. And I know it’s naive to assume people always want the best from both helping, and receiving help. I think the idea is perfectly fine, but I would rather just provide help rather than be outspoken about it, staying humble and courteous when necessary. Cheers Cae. 💙
9:17 I wanna focus on this spot for a moment.
I am a mentor who (From absolute stupid levels of stubborn) still gives input despite how some will push heavily back against it, without checking in first. And I want to focus here because of the way that my advice comes out is qualified for this category.
When I do give my advice, it's… Direct. I state it. I don't have this tendency to consider the other person on the other side's feeling regarding it. Because it's incredibly direct, most take my advice as hostile and toxic, because I'm not taking into account how someone else could potentially feel about it. Note, I'm not being actually hostile or insulting, I am simply stating things like "X should do Y" in the most forward way possible.
I'd like to think outside of this issue, that I'm still good. My NN has made statements that I'm knowledgeable about what I'm talking about (And when I'm not, they know how depressed I feel giving such incorrect advice), just that the way I direct it can cause that pushback. Which is why I do say, even if someone's advice is still coming off as hostile to you, try your best to ignore that. Unless they're going ham (like, just straight up calling you the R gamer word for example), they might just be projecting their irritation by accident in the moment, and are still trying to help you.
Though, if I can have an additional note at 7:17, I've managed to have my stubborn break to this point too. And it's why my third static broke, because I tried to give my advice, I got instant hard pushback by our raidlead because I dared to mention XIVAnalysis in my advice. I simply shut up then, and suddenly when I'm not helping the raid team improve, we're playing even worse than before. Ended up completely falling apart because I simply kept my mouth shut over continuing to try. And the worst part is I still feel proud of it. I shouldn't, but they saw a clear cut example of why you shouldn't shoot a mentor down when he's going completely out of his way to try.
NN is cancer, avoid those mentors.
I love the Watering Can Idea… pls yoshi do that 😊
Most mentors that I personally meet have been quiet yet happy to answer questions the moment someone asks them.
On average, they have also been the more skilled players that I encounter in random duties.
Novice Network, on the other hand, was a heavily mixed bag on Adamantoise back when I tried to actively participate there. Too often, mentors used it as a personal chat room to joke around. Or, they would give extremely specific and largely unhelpful advice to new players that would confuse as often as it would enlighten. And the few times I tried to politely chastise/disagree with mentors for not being helpful, I was mocked and criticized simply because I wasn't part of the "in crowd" that always hung around that channel.
So I just ignore it nowadays and stick to helping individuals I encounter that either overtly seem lost or directly ask for help.
I don't know how it is on other data centers, but playing through new content in Endwalker was pretty shocking. I know you will always get facepullers in the new raids before everyone is there and ready, but I really feel like mentors should be the last people doing this. Yet you'd still see them doing it even in the first month of new raids on Aether.
Is that bad ettiquette? I would say it is. But there aren't really any specific politeness guidelines in the game, are there? This kind of loops back around to the tutorial problem.
When I first started playing the game I didn't want to join the newbie network because I had no idea what it was and I just assumed it was a big chat room to talk and make groups to play together, but I just wanted to be left alone and look at guides on the internet lol
On the whole I feel like something needs to be done about the system on Square Enix's side. None of it's very clear. Just like the tutorials.
About Novice Network: I never got an invitation when I started out and only learned about its existence somewhat recently. Not sure when exactly, but I think it was after the MSQ and probably after I started Extremes/Savages. I don't think I missed out on anything by not being in the NN.
I don't have a mentor crown. I treat FFXIV as a single player game that I tend to play with others occasionally or I do things in PF. Meaning I mostly play in a way that can't give me commendations. There were just not enough interactions with other players so far for me to get the required commendations to become a mentor. And I don't think I need it. If there's something the group needs that goes beyond me pressing my buttons/doing mechanics and I can help, I will. That's all, don't need to be a mentor for that.
For example, during The Dancing Plague EX, I taught the group how to skip add phase, shortening the fight by 1 minute. Another example is Seat of Sacrifice EX. The group didn't know that all non-DPS need to be paired with a DPS for LB3, so I explained that. When the group disbanded, I made my own PF and led the group through the fight, assigned positions/partners, explained mechanics, and generally ensured we got consistent clears.
All of that was well received. The other players listened to it and liked it a lot when it worked out perfectly.
For the most part, I'm perfectly fine with just tagging along and playing my role if nothing else is required of me, but I'll rise to the occasion if I can and it's necessary.
If a mentor queues for mentor roulette, do all other players see that that player is a mentor? Or do they actively need to choose the mentor crown even in mentor roulette?
As for experiences with mentors, no idea, don't even know what their crown looks like.
Ive been a mentor for a month now and while I haven't unlocked mentor roulette even if I did, Id still probably perfer qeueing in the regular leveling roulette since some of my best experiences have been joining a group as a healer or tank and encouraging newer tanks to pull more since I have them or suggesting how a healer can add their new ability unlocked to their rotation. Im not confident in my ability to clear savage content but I love helping in leveling!
I honestly never had a player approach to me for direct advise, whenever I'm in dungeons I always ask if annyone needs a fight explained. while also being honest If I get a random dng I haven't done in months/years. Never had any toxic interaction on my end, though I have seen some mentors acting kind of in a condescending way. I like the teaching but I wish there was like some specific content where you could actually and specifically interact with only new players (imagines a sprout classroom)
I first became aware of the mentor program when The Smith asked me if I'd like to become one. If I could have responded in detail, it would be along the lines of "Smithy, are you insane!? I have no idea what I'm doing!!!"
Personally I am a trade mentor but sadly my world has trolls so I tend to avoid the 3rd task and focus on the first 2 heavily
Yessss, I've been saying to replace the burger king crown with a watering can for years. That and raise the comms from 1500 to 3000 if an overhaul is not in Square's interests. Really anything to help deter players from just wanting the crown and nothing more would be beneficial. I don't recommend new players to the novice network because of the toxic mentors that can hang around in there just to argue. (I've known a few that would just sit in NN and argue for no reason.)
A cool idea would be like Job specific emblems for finishing certain tasks as said job. For example, if said player does certain requirements such as number for dungeons/raids, complete a certain number of floors in a deep dungeon, ect. They would unlock a cool emblem they could be proud of. There might be a flaw in the idea that I haven't thought of so if anyone could add to this, it would be much appreciated!
As my experience as a mentor (nearly 4k comms) giving advice is a coin flip. Mainly due to some players thinking that it's a personal attack on them and they get very defensive even when you're as polite as you can be and not pointing any fingers. I think the major cause of this is the lack of tone that typing can have so even if you're as happy as happy can be and mean no harm in what you're typing. They read it as you're being rude. (Yes even 🙂 can be seen as aggressive to some players in certain contexts.)
All in all, I hope the revamp the mentor system or remove the crown completely and add something like the watering can instead!
i have reached mentorship on three characters, and i strive to know more about the game so i can be helpful to those who seek knowledge and those who have Assumed their way into a bad playstyle.
I love when i mess up on a fight i haven't played in over a year, it means I'm unsuitable to helping new players learn what an OGCD is or how DOTS interact with Buffs
I think the only time I've ever been helped by a mentor was when I was learning White Mage they told me not to use cure 1 and just use cure 2
I think using something so dull like a watering can would end up having an opposite and more negative effect than having a crown. In my opinion using something ridiculous and unrelated like a watering can would make people NEVER want to wear the mentor "watering can" next to their name, which would result in sprouts not knowing who the mentors actually are. I think it needs to be something more in line with what the role actually is, like maybe a small image of two hands clasped together like their shaking hands or one is helping the other. I do think a crown is too much because it makes it seem more like mentors are "royalty" or "kings/queens" over the "peasant" sprouts, which is not good.
In a way this situation is like the Stanford and/or Zimbardo Prison Experiment with one group of people as the guards (mentors) and one group of people as the prisoners (sprouts), and because the mentors think that by somehow unlocking a crown gives them some type of power over sprouts it ends up going to their heads and they mistreat new players.
Give advice..that is not directly pointed at anyone,
it's understandable people will react negative to advice,
if its pointed at them..
Nobody likes to be criticized in front of others or being told what to do.
[ Players whom genuine care about learning/ be better at the game will listen.
For those whom refuse, let them figure it out the hard way.]
My experience with being a mentor, for the short time I’ve had it, has been a mixed bag. My rule of thumb is I assume the group knows the fight unless they specifically tell me otherwise. If I see a player(s) struggling to dodge, and especially if we wipe as a result, I’ll put the triangle mark on myself and tell them to “Follow the Dorito of Safety!”
being literally the players more needy than sprouts when it comes to knowhow.
I take the "morale officer" role keeping spirits up in character and generally keeping an enthusiastic positive attitude going especially if in a struggling duty, there was a time when we finished a long mentor roullete extreme and when leaving the duty I was sent a tell thanking me for sticking with them due to having a bad experience with mentors before, and another time when I was tracked down by someone to be sent a message from a sprout that couldn't find me wanting to thank me for helping them through another difficult duty. It's moments like that that feel good but are also sad as you know if others didn't give them a negative interaction before they wouldn't have felt the need to reach out to thank like they did, and those are only the ones I heard from.
I just stand around crafting areas offer HQ crafts to people when I hear the synthesis fail sfx. Rarely does anyone accept my offer 🥲
I always have mentor crown on.. and am also a multi legend and happen to be pretty good at the game. I sometimes get tells from sprouts asking random things. “How do retainers work?” “How do i world travel?” “What is the party finder?” “How do i use X settings?” Etc etc. I am NOT in the novice network though, but have invited sprouts that ask me help invite them. The game i think at somepoint does tell sprouts to ASK A MENTOR for help, could be wrong about that. In mentor roulette if i que as a dps i almost always get guildheist for some reason? Probably bc people farm that content for quick commendations on a support job. But some of those you NEED to do a mechanic or you wont complete it. So ill type in chat/mark mobs or objects that need to be interacted with in a certain way. I try to be helpful in general but dont go out of my way to give out advice randomly. You dont need to be raider to be a good mentor. You dont have to teach people how to be GOOD at the game in that way, but HOW to play the game in general i think is the true intention.
My first actual interaction with a mentor was asking them if using Mithril Tempest for the buff at levels 40-49 was a gain on one
Complete radio silence, even as we waited for first timer to watch the pre-boss cutscene. I don't expect everyone to know the answer (I still don't know it) but i'd at least expect an "I don't know"
I've since become a full mentor and been told repeatedly, both by friends and strangers that "I'm one of the good ones"
I don't object to that title.
Recently we had a mentor join an all BLU Ifrit extreme group without access to Aetheric Mimicry, and would mostly just use water cannon. I took it upon myself to get him Aetheric Mimicry, Alpine Draft and Eruption (Which he joined the group for in the first place. You can learn it on normal mode, people!)
He even asked why I was helping him.
I have also been responded to with great hostility after encouraging white mages to stop using Cure 1 (some as high as level 83!) and instead spend more time dealing damage.
My worst interaction of all was causing a player to leave my FC, and delete their character after I asked them to not move their character unless they have a reason to on the final phase of Nael.
You can only help people who want to be helped, but there is no way of knowing they want help without asking. And sadly, even asking "would you like some help learning black mage?" after a dungeon can be interpreted as a grievous insult. I still lack a lot of confidence when it comes to approaching people.
I see mentors make more mistakes than any other players. Even when giving advice on how to play. As a healer you really notice these things. I dunno if it’s not just anecdotal but it certainly seems that way. 🤷🏻♂️
I'm taking the journey to get the mentor crown, but only cuz I do want to help others.
Typically though even before I get the crown if I notice a player or sprout doing poorly or looking a little lost, I ask them if they want or need help. Typically they say yes, and I help them. If they say no then I just leave it at that. Give them the option, and saves me the trouble if they want to just be toxic in return. Thankfully I haven't had anyone decline mine or my bf's help yet, but it is nice to have this system in place for us just in case it does happen since I don't like to deal with toxic people. Now yes I know you can't avoid them, I've played WoW for 19 years and SoulWorker for 5 years and those had the worse toxic groups I've ever seen (and I know there are worse out there) but even still I do my best to just avoid it, even try to take a more friendly approach and attempt to take light steps around them.
Me: posts a comment describing a reason for not taking the Burger King crown
Chaiji: perhaps enough people have legitimate discouragements to warrant a fun fact.
Now if only people would comm good DPS instead of defaulting to (Even bad) Tanks or healers. No way for me to get mentor despite being very helpful to players whenever i can . Too bad i main DNC so will never get the comms required to be one. XD
For me, the best mentors give the new players an opportunity to figure things out for themselves, and then when it's clear they really dont get it (such as a party wipe), then they explain fight mechanics etc.