Just because you like something doesn’t mean you have to like everything about it. Here’s what I didn’t like about Endwalker.
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Yeah, in hindsight, hell a little before everything started going in Ultima Thule I suspected that's what they were going for. But damn it all the depressing nature of the place and especially the music once the vocals hit still punched my logic in the face
I was actually hoping they would find a way to kill my character in a sacrifice to save the others. The next story arc doesn't necessarily have to be the same person and it would have been a hell of a twist.
I normally would agree about the deaths but they served a narrative purpose here for me, like the entire plot was about hope no matter what and sacrificing everything to save everyone, if all the scions died it would have worked against the uplifting theme of Endwalker and the whole revival of hope and life in the universe, we will show Meteion hope and give Hermes the answer thing. I do think the pacing could have been better though, especially the long winded speeches felt like they didn't match the urgency of the situation but the deaths didn't feel cheap to me, they were there to kind of counter the negative energy vs positive energy thing, mirror the ancients sacrificing themselves to save their people while also kind of having us actually save everyone instead of just accepting the fate and inevitable doom to finish what Hydaelyn started but with a good ending instead of being the lone survivor like she was essentially. I get why it wouldn't land for you and others though, but for me, it matched the narrative and ideas being pushed throughout the entire story.
This is exactly how I saw it, it felt cheap and I hated it
They should of killed off the cast before ultima thula, starting off with zeno's killing thancred as the WoL. Then before going to Epis and meeting that girl it would of left a larger impact if the WoL didnt mention Thancred was dead. Then going back to Garland during the despair outbreak have alphinaud get killed by a monster. Then get barried in Old Sharalyn with his sister, father, mother present. Then Uranger, Yhastloa, G'raha Tiam and the sister go with you on the space ship. While in Ultima thal have all of Eorzea basically die in a cutscene. Then have all the rest if the scions sarafice themselves throughout Ultima Thula but better. Have the sister see her dead brother at the end of Ultima Thula and make that rainbow bridge then sarafices herself. Then follow the "ghost walk" scene with everyone that has died trying to tell you to stay strong. Then save the summon dead characters scene for the very end right when your going to fight despair and summon back every single dead scion include Yda & Papalymo. Defeat despair and have Endwalker end off bitter sweet where they need to travel to the void in order to restore eorzea. I would place Eorzea zones as in the past like with Epis at that point. I would just have Zeno's turn into Zodiark and have him get wrapped up that way. Then just have Hermes just off himself into a monster during depair envasion and kill Alphinud actually. If 2.3 was better done Moebryda by not killing her off so soon then Uranger would off had more of emotional impacing scene during Endwalker while he was still sad about her dying and resisting the effects of despair/depression.
The ideal goal here is to have the WoL lose everything and fall to depression with nothing to fight for and then summon the scions and kick meteoins ass. They didnt need to bring anyone back to be honest. The cast of characters is too big and they really needed to cutdown the cast leading into the next expansion. The whole theme of the expansion is about overcoming saddness and they clearly failed staying true to that theme with Endwalker.
besides emmet-sulk being shoved in my face, I didn't like the dread porn. too many times seeing people turn into monsters, fear in horror then also turn into monsters committing genocide. it got old real fast, i just stopped caring seeing random NPC #3980 get slaughtered for the thousandth time. writers kept doing this to show how dire things have gotten but all it did was make me care even less doing it way too much before the launch patch MSQ ended.
i never thought those were "fake out deaths" there, even when thancred was first to leave, i knew they'd all be back that at that moment not later so yeah felt meaningless them having these long ass speeches prior the portals that took each of them politely wanted until they were done talking before to suck them into a endless void, how nice.
3:00 this scene was so fucking stupid. the WoL, and the twins send a person with zero combat abilities to deliver an infant in a hellscape of monsters all over the area. none of the 3 thought "hmm at least one of us should go with the elephant man to protect him and baby"…really? but their stupidity was only so dragoon elf can DRG jump down like badass to save them at the last moment *sighs* smh idc that was bad writing, it lacked logic.
3:11 ever wonder why the WoL was the only one not affected teleport pad?
100% agree with Mass Effect 2 final mission, goddamn each choice was super impactful. shame in 3rd game most that lived from 2 didn't get to do much anyways lol.
I got completely disconnected from the story when I started seeing this in ultima thule. I would rather see 0 risk and danger of the characters and think "they are too important I guess that no one dies" rather than faking out deaths.
Even if you think that they aren't meant to be deaths but reaffirmations of their love and trust in you I don't see the need to do so cause we have 0 doubts about them, the journey has been so long and they had never failed us before. What point are they making with their "sacrifice"?
It was kinda lame and made me feel less from the "walking alone" and the last scene before the dungeon cause they aren't bad by themselves but the way you get to them feels so artificial.
At least the game feels somewhat aware that it's trying too hard to make you feel sad so they put zenos at the end which is not the best written thing either, not even close, but he brings some fun.
I went into Endwalker thinking they wouldn't have the guts to kill anyone off, considering that G'raha survived Shadowbringers the way he did, and the amount of times you see a character mortally wounded – except they aren't. I liked the expansion overall but there was no sense of tension or urgency during the Final Days, other than the part with the baby. Garlemald and Ultima Thule both felt like they were over too soon, and we weren't able to get attached to characters or explore other stories like we usually do. Thancred disappearing ruined the impact of the other Scions "dying" because he went so ambiguously. The execution of the cutscenes definitely felt off this time, maybe because the developers had to rush?
I partially disagree, as I thought the deaths being fake was painfully obvious from the very first one, ever since Thancred was unceremoniously "killed" off-screenvwith very little fanfare and the characters almost didn't react to it. I was more worried about him after his duel against Ran'jit than here, I actually thought that fake-out was more believable.
I guess the idea wasn't so much to make you think that they were dying as it was that they were momentarily somewhere else fighting on their own to open your path, but knowing from the get-go where everything was going and that their sacrifices weren't real kinda made the whole process feel empty, lacking substance, cheap even. And this means that Ultima Thule failed to get any kind of emotional response from me up until the scene with Meteion and the Elpis flowers.
The walk was fine, a bit cliched maybe, but hey, cliches wouldn't be cliches if they didn't work, and this one was well done. I do feel the previous scenes had set me in a mood of "whatever-ness" that made it not have as much of an impact for me as it should have had otherwise though.
wait.. they were dead? I did not think anyone died at all there
This is a trope used in jrpgs all the time. Where the hero's path is paved with the lives of their friends, but at the end of it, theyre waiting for him for the final showdown. The first time I saw it was way back in Tales of Symphonia, and I highly doubt that was the first time it was used at all. That being said, I never saw these as fake outs or cheap deaths, because I've seen this song and dance time and time again. Besides, I got the tragedy from the stories of past civilizations not from characters that I know square is going to want to continue to use further down the road.
It was one part of the FF4 referencing they could have done better.
So yshtola and thancred got multiple fake-outs through the whole game. They really are kind of a one-trick pony with writing "suspense" in this game
I wouldn't slot this under the 'fakeout death for cheap thrill' category. First off, the minute Meteion told us that Thancred was still with us, but with no body, I knew he wasn't really dead, because Hydaelyn specifically gave us the power to give form to the formless.
Also the 'the squad sacrifices themselves one by one so the main character can proceed to the final boss' trope is just much more common in anime and japanese storytelling. The second death confirmed for me that that is what they were doing because I've seen it before in so many other animes. I don't think they were trying to trick you into thinking that these characters were gone forever. The moments were more about the culmination of each of their personal stories, and even though it's obvious you're not losing them forever, it's still deeply emotional because THEY don't know that, and they are choosing to put their lives on the line to help you move forward anyway. Their faith in you is unwavering and it's absolutely heartbreaking to watch them have to do that for you.
For me, I empathize a lot with my character, and in moments like that I'm not watching the story passively like I would a TV show. I am putting myself in my characters shoes and feeling what they would be feeling, and they would be gutted every time they lost another friend. I spent all of Ultima Thule an absolute sobbing mess because of it. And I'm not saying everyone needs to play like that, but that might account for some of why that part doesn't resonate with some like it does with others.
I can see where you’re coming from, and though I still loved the story overall I kinda agree. By nature of it being an MMO I think the writers are really afraid of killing off fan favorite characters due to backlash. I thought G’raha’s death at the end of Shadowbringers and Estinien’s death in Ultima Thule were really powerful moments because you really couldn’t have given them more perfect death scenes. To then go back on that and say “nah I gotchu homie” kinda ruins the impact of the loss. Overall though it was still an effect scene for showing how committed the Scions were to trusting you – that was what the writers were going for I think.
At last someone who feels the same as me on that part.
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As soon as they said something along the line that it's Thancred's soul that allow us to breath in UT and that we'll be able to breath as long as his soul is still alive (and when Y'shtola told us that we could bring them back but we shouldn't), it removed all impact from their deaths for me.
Maybe it was due to the emotional impact of previous recent cutscenes being so strong (end of days, Urianger and Moenbryda's parents), maybe it was due to the fact that I had been playing for hours when getting to that point because I wanted to see the conclusion so much and I was getting tired.
Oh yeah I have to agree with this one.
[More spoiler thought below]
Is this low enough…
Anyway yeah this part did not hit like I think it was intended for me. Sharlayan, Garlemald, Thavnair, and Elpis all just had better narratives in Endwalker, again for me personally. I'm not saying they are better just that they hit harder for me.
Our friends sacrificing themselves one by one (except Thancred lmao) for the purpose of you going forward. But then getting mad at you for fighting by yourself at the very end like what… yall almost willed this yourselves before I pressed the emergency exit button.
However, one of the funniest lines in the game coming from Alisaie when a certain someone turned into a crystal (again) bridge. "Why do you keep doing this?" The way I screamed lol
I would agree that this left me a bit on a cheap side. I know that these characters have at this point plot armor that can withstand a nuclear bomb but cut me some slack. If someone of them actually died for real (especially if Thancred died in this unceremonious way permanently) it would have hit us much harder. While I understand why this was done (don't hurt players' party composition and don't destroy feelings too much).
You can cover this in layers upon layers of lore, but even Gurren Lagann killed off some important characters during its final sequence and Endwalker is VERY similar in its structure to Gurren Lagann. So I don't know – killing off some characters – Thancred, maybe Urianger or Estinien, or hell, maybe even Alphinaud permanently or with reprecussions, would have been much more powerful piece in my opinion – actually sacrifice some characters. Or even worse (or better) – give player control of the button that will kill off the character in some way.
It's hard to kill off some of the characters but sometimes it has to be done.
I've played 14 since 2013 and I have approx 500 days of playtime according to the command.
I did not like Endwalker. it didn't make any sense to me. The last minute introduction "Dynamis: The other white aether", the unsatisfying conclusion with respect to Zodiark, the way Zenos handled in the story, the last minute introduction of a new "big bad" and so much more. And I'm even more disappointed that after all we've been through, we still don't know what happened to the Students of Baldesion?? I mean what jusr wow. The "End of Days" felt like a joke. Like did she partner with Samsung to roll it out like an over the air update?? The entire world should have been burning ALL AT ONCE… but I digress.
I enjoyed meeting Venat and hanging out in Elpis. The absolute BEST part of Endwalker was the body swap with Zenos. I have never felt so much tension in this game as I did during that part.. and what did they do with it?? Absolutely nothing. I think this expansion was severely impacted by COVID and the story telling (imo) shows.
Knowing we had a chance to bring them back gave us hope and I think that was the theme they were trying to convey. To forge ahead because there is hope. That was the lesson metion needed to learn. That was the answer to the question. And that's what our WoL was experiencing. We knew they'd come back, but it was still just a maybe, so even though we just saw our friends get deleted, we had to keep going not knowing for sure. The point is to learn something from the story, because there is a lot to learn about yourself from this game. Right now we live in uncertain times, but we have to forge ahead.
Agree with u 100% the deaths didn't mean anything. Unlike the ending fight with emet still gives me chills in how good that whole ending was executed. Seeing your friends fall as you approached him, and the scene all goes black and white. So good! You feel defeated and you could all die. In ew, it's more like bye everyone I'll see you in a few min.
I fully agree, Ultima Thule did not sit well with me, as someone who watched a lot of anime I knew fake deaths would come with Thancred but I really hoped Thancred was a legit death. The Japanese needs to stop this emotional trope, it's tired. If Thancred truly died it would have made sense since his arc was fully done in SHB.
Did the shadobinger did fakeout death's to?
you get a follow just for mentioning Tenchu.
Personally i thought hydealen and zodiark should of been the big end game of this expansion. They were hyped up for so long and to not see them battle each other sucked. Imo meteion/hermes was from out of left field and was partially horned in and it ruined it for me was really random after all the fan daniel and zodiark fusion and ties to amon
I think what they meant to show u is your friends were willing to sacrifice their lives for you to move on I knew they were not dead except thancred but while progressing through the story i knew they were with me all the time and believed in me
I agree with Ultima Thule not being tragic, 100%. The fact that right before this, they give you that little box with a panic button to pull you back to the Ragnarok AND drew attention to Azem's Crystal was the giveaway for me. I called it Chekov's McGuffin.
I went through almost exactly what you described. First 2 I felt, then the third I knew it was fine and didn’t really care cause I knew it wasn’t for real. I didn’t need more “Trust in you friend to save you”. They were laying that on way to thick at more then one point. I even skipped some of the “WoL is so great” stuff with Alisale cause it was too much for me.
After Estinian, The story didn’t reclick for me until Emet-Selch showed up. That got me good and I was back in.