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Thx 4 info I was little worry about samurai overall dps but seems no change 👍
I agree with u have a good day 🍻
Small correction at 1:47: Hissatsu: Guren is a line aoe, not a cone.
Ogi can be on Ikishoten, Shoha 1 and 2 can be combined together. Hell even Senei and Guren imo can be combined into one move for a cleave/fall off. But that would feel worse because having the big single target potency on Senei is nice. Point is, plenty of other buttons they could have removed and Kaiten was NOT IT. I feel like SE has a grudge against these type of amplification moves ever since getting rid of Dark Arts. But then I thought maybe not because they gave something like it to Sage. And NOw they removed it from Samurai. They can't make up their mind lmaooo
How would you feel if they made Kaiten a trait that was tied to positionals/stickers? I feel like this accomplishes their goal while also keeping the integrity of the class intact.
Feels the exact same as when they removed dark arts from dark knight. Since I’m so used to Kaiten, it feels awkwardly dry sometimes…
But I personally am okay with it. It wasn’t much, but for me I just felt like it was needless gauge management. We did already use Kaiten on every single iai strike, without exception afaik. There is no real finesse to it. Unlike dark arts, it doesn’t even really have any use for buffing other skills, it’s just iai jutsu booster since you lose potency per kenki if you use it on anything else (barring odd circumstances like buffing a gekko right before the boss becomes untargetable).
Also, ease of play isn’t all bad imo, because if mental load is reduced, they can increase the complexity of raid battles without it becoming too much to juggle for a wider range of players.
I know I’m in the minority, but I really personally like everything about the patch for samurai, gameplay wise. Maybe it’s because I’ve been through this with dark knight already, it I’m over it already. I will deeply miss the aesthetic of Kaiten though, it looked incredibly cool.
Great video, but I'm not sure how good it was to include the 6.1 dungeon in the video, might be a bit spoilery for some!
i do think a lot of this patch's PvE changes were meant to reduce clipping/enable weaving on higher ping. since kaiten was effectively mandatory, it could easily displace other oGCDs during your burst if your connection only permits single-weaves. i wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, they merged MNK's riddle of fire and brotherhood for similar reasons. they can't seem to fix the netcode at this point but they can restructure rotations to be more ping-friendly.
…though on the flip side, I did love kaiten and I'd much rather they kept it for the reasons you stated. it's just *cool*. and misapplying kaiten to the wrong GCD was an interesting (but not grievous) rotational error. as you say, i'd much rather they consolidated uninspired "either/or single target vs AOE" buttons pairs, since they don't meaningfully affect the rhythm or composition of your rotation in any way.
i'm glad to have room for potions on my SAM hotbars again but i wish it hadn't come at the cost of kaiten.
I agree. The loss of Kaiten and the nerfs to our big hitters I don't like, even if we have auto crits on those big hit abilities now. That part feels horrible and us losing synergy with crit rate boosting jobs also feels bad and overall nerfs us as well. The Third Eye and Tenka Goken changes are good at least but even that can't make up for losing Kaiten. I hope they revert these changes soon.
If the problem was less button bloat and more APM, then why are wildfire and hypercharge on MCH still the way they are? If they really wanted to address APM, maybe make hypercharge a controlled stack system rather than a ping-reliant duration, maybe make wildfire a duration-based damage raid buff against the boss rather than a gcd-based duration that you need to hit your full hypercharge under
Agreed, it feels reallllllly bad. Extremely baffling since apm didn't really change, and out burst windows should pool a bit of kenki for raid buffs anyway. Kaiten's removal achieves nothing.
They could have made Senei and Guren into unassignable actions that Shinten / Guren upgrade into when you use Ikishoten, like "Ogi Namimkiri Ready" called "Hissatu Ready".
They would reduce drifting on our 2m CD's, shave TWO BUTTONS, and lower the skill floor while maintaining the skill ceiling.
I'll be frankly dissapointed if they continue to exist as they do since yeah, Senei and Guren are just upgraded Shinten and Kyuten. No reason they should be buttons by themselves.
I'm no SAM main so this may or may not be a bad idea: if their goal was to reduce APM, I'd much rather they increase the cost+potency of Shinten instead of removing Kaiten.
hard agree, it's so dull to play now, SAM is midare, and midare without a wind-up animation it just feels so wrong
NGL Tenka Goken being a circular aoe also feels really weird to me, prob because of how bad it looks, i dont mind it in a gameplay perspective but in a visual perspective it is pretty bad
I expected to not mind auto crit but paired with reducing potency of Ogi, Midare, and tenka and spreading it across other GCDs it feels way less satisfying. A 6.1 crit midare does as much damage or maybe even less than a normal midare from before
I don't like it, lost the only real kenki management, a satisfying animation and feel, and I hate the guaranteed crits because I main SCH and I do not understand the thought process behind now having another job with guaranteed crits when 3 jobs have crit rate increases on their main raid buff, creating anti-synergy is never good, especially when they nerfed actual synergy in Expedient, that really synergized with jobs like BLM(still does but I'm very against the nerf still). It's like half the changes were nonsense and the other half varied from amazing to meh but I'll take it.
100% Agree without Kaiten it just feels to braindead now.
Wanted to make a new comment because I have an interesting video idea request for you Mike from the seeing the discussion around Kaiten. If you're ever feeling bored, would you ever rank abilities (not GCD) in a tier list on how much you like them in terms of how they affect a job plays. I'm curious to see what you think about it. Like I think Heavensward's Gauss Barrel and Wanderer's Minuet is SS Tier.
I think the only ppl ranting bout it are ppl who are used to pressing it and now they feel like something is missing… and yeh it was cool, u are buffing your next iajutsu spinning your sword whatever… it was completely useless skill… they just buffed the dmg output and removed one button. It's actually quality of life change.. and for those saying u needed to think about the gauge… no u didnt… u just used shinten to prevent overcapping.. and u always had enough gauge for kaiten..same as now.. u use shinten to prevent overcapping and then dump it all in buff windows
Not sure how they would work out shoha 1 and 2 and also guren and senei as those are single target and aoe respectively. unless they just either make one aoe and one single target and both aoe
Let’s talk about guaranteed crit, which decrease crit priority. As for me I always prefer to play “spike” hard hitting heroes, and now Sam … so much less benefit from stat, and other jobs crit buffs => less crits for other skills.
For me – that’s the hardest to claim changes
Disagree. Kaiten always felt like a stop gap. Look at Gunbreaker, and Dancer. You move from skill to skill, almost never stopping. With Kaiten removed, I feel like my weaving is better, always attacking, Weaving in Shinten in place of Kaiten. Also the Genki amount feels higher, or rather it feels like it regens faster since I am not losing a portion of it to Kaiten. I admit the initial rotations felt off but after a few runs I feel more focused in Savage than before. Less down time so to speak. As for AOE, it's for Dungeons only. So whether it's Cone or Circle, it doesn't matter in the long term. FATES however will be easier to manage. You also mentioned Consolidating 2 skills. I like what they did with the PVP buttons. They should just do that if they worry about skill bloating.
A good idea would be to make Meikyo Shisui give your next Iaijutsu a Kaiten level buff. It still gives that wind up feeling Samurais are now missing and takes away having to kaiten on the hotbar. Also make Ikishoten turn into Ogi Namikiri upon activation if button bloat is a rising concern.
It's also worth pointing out that Kaiten was lv 52+, so any time you entered an ARR dungeon on roulette SAM would just feel bad. I don't think taking it away was the right move (esp at level cap), but being able to deal actual damage in coils, CT, and CM/Prae feels so much better.
I wonder if they will bring back a pseudo-kaiten in a future patch that grants auto DH at a lower cost? That could work while not fully reverting the changes imo.
Disagree for me Kaiten is just a waste button to press with just a cool animation. I feel more fun to play right now than before.
i widraw my statement from my previus message for those who read it.
just updated my dps meter and found out that the damage is only a little lower, but not to detramental.
still highest dps from the melee's only being outclassed by black mage
The new auto target system basically removed the issue with come cone attacks didn’t it?
I'm trying to unlearn 4 years of muscle memory.
Playing SAM, for me, doesn't feel good right now.
Most samurai players would probably agree with you. I mean the removal of kaiten is the primary reason why Yoshi P stayed silent for 15 min during the developer's letter before 6.1, and its also why he skipped the samurai part because too many people were criticizing this decision in the chat
I have all melees geared up for Ultimate and after playing SAM for reclears I think I'm finally going to put down my blade I might just go play NIN for DSW
Haven't played SAM since 6.1 yet, but Kaiten seemed like a bad removal. Both of those reasons they gave were obviously wrong. I feel like the real reason was the same reason as the autocratic, it was two different changes to pull in the damage range of Iaijutsus. To close the gap between no Kaiten no crit Midare and Kaiten+crit+DH Midare.
There is so much "feedback" on the official forums wanting Kaiten back. I feel like SE is more likely to now "tweak" Kenki generation to lower Shinten usage back to where it was while Kaiten was around.
I hate it now. SAM used to be my fav melee job. Kaiten is so core to why it feels good and they screwed it up. Now also brain dead, no need to manage resources.
My satisfaction was from the big hit on midare. I don’t care if Kaiten is in or not. But the potency change hurts.
I’d rather the rest of the kit do 1/4 of the damage it does now and just shift all of it into midare+ogi
But they won’t because of the autocrits. Frankly I like the autocrit change, but the loss of potency on our iaijutsu is what I dislike.
The biggest thing for myself is retraining years of muscle memory. I'm so used to pressing kaiten and having it missing makes Sam feel extremely awkward now. I agree with everything you mentioned and feel the same. I prefer alittle more thought process then just simply spamming a button to prevent gauge overcap and it felt very satisfying to know all my big hits had that little extra added to them with kaiten applied by playing the job correctly. Simplicity can work well and help draw new players sure, but it can equally just make a job feel boring if you cut too much of its kit out. I'm hoping they reverse this and reinstate kaiten, it happened for Energy Drain when they removed that so it's possible they could bring it back with any luck.
it keeps feeling how the side of the devs that shape PVE job actions often dont know how to it truly works in full motion. It took 7 years to fix DRK LD and 3 for BW. Only realized WHM AM was behind in dmg from 5 years of forum complains despite it being basic math of the lily system.
Whoever did the 6.1 PVP action changes actually do. I see so many actions I wish were in PVE omgoodness, with of course higher CDs and normal potency naturally lol.
I was gonna start playing SAM again until they made this change. Now I kind of..don't want to. Got him to 80 in ShB so not like I'm just picking him up
I want kaitan animation button at least it is really weird playing without winding up for big attack.
I admit there's some curiosity, and some fear. My impression is that they have plans for how they'll update the feel of Samurai in 7.0, and those changes needed room. And if the game was literally taking away a beloved ability to immediately try and sell you on the new Samurai identity (samuraidentity?) that would make the road from 90 to presumably 100 feel like a sidegrade rather than an upgrade.
But if that's actually why they're doing it, there's a part of me that feels like that's a variation of WoW's schtick. It's not as bad as having core mechanics of the zones be bad in order to keep people reeled in for the patch at the end of the cycle when "it'll get good," but there is a feeling of intentionally making something feel incomplete so they can make it feel complete later. If they're doing this once, and out of necessity because the plan for 100 Sam is fantastic, then who knows, maybe it's worth it. But if this becomes a regular habit in the design cycle going forward the feeling of the game may degrade a bit in the coming years. I guess we'll see.
Honestly, I don't mind kaiten going since it was one of the least interesting ogcds in the kit that's used for only a small number of skills. The biggest thing about kaiten was that it was a cool animation. If I remember it right, I'd like to see seigan come back and have a trait where using it will increase the next hissatsu skill by an amount of potency, maybe by 50 or 100 potency. This will make using third eye more important and give you a spike of damage in another part of your kit. Maybe just give the trait for third eye, but I kinda like seigan since it combos off of third eye. Lastly, with all of the combo paths giving 20 kenki, giving 60 kenki to work with or 35 with meikyo. Sam just has an overabundance of kenki to work with after 62. The extra you can get from third eye doesn't really help this case. Kenki management on sam is pretty much nonexistent after the 2nd kenki trait. And even at the worst case, a decent sam will save up 10 kenki for their movement skills, so just using meikyo to get one sen will get you the kenki you needed for kaiten.
I think most ppl where okay with how sam was before and they made this change when probably nobody asked. There is other jobs that probably needed this level of attention, but they had to do all the stuff noted on the job change notes just to remove Kaiten (and kaiten was a sick looking ability)…..They need to just go back to what it was.